Would Germans still be ashamed for wwr2 ?

reply to post by muzzleflash


interesting..He had many suporters in sweden too, nothing we are proud of today..
But did Hitler had bad attentions from beginning or did they grow to him ??

Originally posted by Bullhorn
reply to post by blerk

 

I'm German and I was certainly taught about the atrocities "my people" committed back then but I never felt any sense of shame about it. Having been born over 40 years after WW II ended I really don't see why I should.

You should never feel shame for something YOU DID NOT DO.

Just as in the same way, I am not ashamed for what Americans did to the Natives 200years ago. I am disgusted by what they did. I am sickened by the murders. I oppose it fully. BUT...I am not guilty for it. I never killed anyone, and I especially would never hurt a Native, I like them.

So you are right. We are not guilty for the past. We are only guilty for today and our own actions. This is why we must push for peace now, because it is our legacy that we leave behind for the future generations to judge us as a people by.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
reply to post by swecret

 

Its the people that live in Germany and Japan. They are like doctor jekyll and mister Hyde. They can be peace loving under one leader and war mongers under another. History has showed us this time and time again. If they get the right leader at the right time they will do it again. We must always watch them and watch them closely.

It is a testament to the people they are hard working and single minded and can be super strong when they need it strong enough to take on many countries at once. We should learn from history and ww2 and ww1 were hard lessons.

I think y´ve wrong here, because what did hapend to the german people would also be able to other coutries in simular conditions..

The German army in ww2 was one of the best fighting forces the earth has ever seen. The kids grew up as soldiers and they would fight to the death and not even think twice. Germany truly has a strong people that if given the chance will take over the world or try to again.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Subjective Truth]

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Bullhorn
reply to post by blerk

 

I'm German and I was certainly taught about the atrocities "my people" committed back then but I never felt any sense of shame about it. Having been born over 40 years after WW II ended I really don't see why I should.

You should never feel shame for something YOU DID NOT DO.

Just as in the same way, I am not ashamed for what Americans did to the Natives 200years ago. I am disgusted by what they did. I am sickened by the murders. I oppose it fully. BUT...I am not guilty for it. I never killed anyone, and I especially would never hurt a Native, I like them.

So you are right. We are not guilty for the past. We are only guilty for today and our own actions. This is why we must push for peace now, because it is our legacy that we leave behind for the future generations to judge us as a people by.

Im really with you here lay it to the past where it belong and look forward..

We as a generation after ww2 don't feel shame but we have a responsibility to never let it happen again.

The folks in the south of Germany who are normally Catholic don't shoulder the burden that the Protestant north does with regard to the Nazi period. It was the Protestant north that elected Hitler and gave him his power. Hitler sent the Bavarian royal family into the death camps as a warning to all the Catholics in the German southlands.

I disagree with those who claim Catholic suport for Hitler. There was no such support in the election that brought Hitler to power. Also, sending the Bavarian royal family to the death camps was a very serious matter for Catholics. And while in the north there was the martyr Dietrich Bonhoeffer and his Confessing German Protestant Church, it was the Catholic south that produced significant protest groups like the group called The White Rose.

Today young Germans who are now entering adulthood feel no more responsibility for World War II than USAmericans of the same age in Georgia and Virginia feel responsible for the War Between the States.

Originally posted by silversurfer6161
We as a generation after ww2 don't feel shame but we have a responsibility to never let it happen again.

I believe this responsibility is upon us all. Every people of every nation must be very careful not to let things get out of hand like they have so many times before.

The wars of today are minor skirmishes, compared to the worldwide mass onslaught that WW2 was. Let us hope our future wars are minor and continue getting smaller and less brutal.

We have a chance to grow and overcome our warlike tendency. This is probably the central most important goal that Humanity can have collectively at this point in time.

Read the book THE WAVE by Morton Rhue (an American), who enacted a
seduction and manipulation of a whole school in California until they followed
a n y order.

In many German and European schools this is a standard program of
education to teach children, how they could be brain-washed.

It would have strategically been stupid of the allies (among whom the US)
to displace the Germans rather than making them defend the German/German border.

Otherwise the Russians and their allies might have moved forward to the
German/French border to the displeasure of the French, Belgian, Dutch,
Luxembourgian, and English.

The sphere of influence of the US would in this case have been reduced
to nothing in the middle of Europe. No nuclear arms in and occupation of
Germany. The allies would not have had much motivation to defend West
German territory with the Germans just looking on.

The allies were wise enough to see a good potential for a German
democracy and ally in the future.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
Germany can never and I mean never have it own fighting force that is not watched closely by the US. They lost and so did Japan for that matter. They are lucky we let them live there at all after the war I would have put them on ships and said go settle somewhere else that would really send a message.

And to everyone who thinks that this is way to harsh take a look at what they did to there neighbors in that time period. It would be doing nothing less than what they did. We won they lost end of story and if the want to kick us out and rebuild so be it we will see what happens in another 10 years.

Said it before, and I'll say it again - its that kind of crassly arrogant and belittling attitude that drives people to fly airliners into skyscrapers.



Just re-read what you wrote, and think about how arrogant it sounds.

Originally posted by Pellevoisin

I disagree with those who claim Catholic suport for Hitler. There was no such support in the election that brought Hitler to power.

Except #1 the fact Hitler was never Elected properly. He was appointed chancellor. I quote "He was chosen by von Hindenberg becuase he had more popular support than the current Chancellor, von Papan."

And yes there was some protestant support for Hitler but I was talking specifically about the Pope.

Yes the Pope supported Hitler and Mussolini. Directly, openly, publicly. Both Axis dictators had complete support from the Pope until later in the war when it became apparent that the Axis were losing. At this point the Church quickly distanced itself from the Axis powers in order to save it's own skin.

Yes many protestants were supporting Hitler, but it was the Catholic support that gave him the upper hand. It was the Pope's vocal support that gave them a upper hand when it came to religious matters. This type of support caused many Germans to get behind Hitler unconditionally.

You can NOT say the Catholics in Germany were against everything that is a LIE, if not for the mass Catholic support Germany would have never had a war machine to begin with. Of course support had to come from many places but the Catholic and Protestant issue had to be solved and support from the majority Christian society was 100% necessary to dominate Germany. (Or Italy for that matter).

The Wehrmacht were one of the most awesome forces in history.. They took the WHOLE of mainland europe in no time.. True warriors.. Honourable too.. Not like their nazi counterparts... Do not confuse the SS with the Wehrmacht.. It was them who tried to kill Hitler too.. Their best General Rommel was complicit in that.. In fact Rommel was such an honourable soldier that he even afforded Jewish POW's the same rights as the rest....
However in every barrel of apples there is a rotten few.. In Germany's case it was the Nazis, and those who let it happen.. However there is also many accounts of soldiers helping the Jews (like myself)...

Even though my people was decimated by the germans.. I can say they have done all they can to make amends.. And it is only fair that their honourable actions be recognised..

reply to post by swecret


Hitler had bad intentions from the time he sloshed through the trenches of WWI, maybe even before that, but at least that long.

The folks in the south of Germany who are normally Catholic don't shoulder the burden that the Protestant north does with regard to the Nazi period. It was the Protestant north that elected Hitler and gave him his power. Hitler sent the Bavarian royal family into the death camps as a warning to all the Catholics in the German southlands.

reply to post by Pellevoisin


I beg to differ... It was the Pope who crowned Hitler.. He disbanded the catholic party and told them to vote for Hitler instead!! Without Pious doing that.. Hitler would never have been heared of again... The vatican will have a lot of time to think about all of those things and many others like the inquisition when it is burning in its rightfull place right next to Hitler in hell..
Learn some history...

reply to post by Subjective Truth

deleted


[edit on 20-2-2010 by Bullhorn]

reply to post by neformore


What did the Japanese do to the Chinese in ww2? How about Germany did they follow the rule's of humantiy? Its called war and it sucks and its death. But just like the American Indians lost there is a price to be paid for it. The strong survive and the weak fall. Its sucks but it is our way. I just say it for what it is and that makes you feel mad so be it. How do you think the mothers and fathers of soldiers that died would feel?


They started it we finished it. If every single one of them had died is it our fault? Was it wrong to drop the big one on Japan?


And being a mod you should know what does airlines into buildings have to do with this topic? I actually have to wonder about some of you it's alright if you do it but then you will pull another's for doing the same thing?

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Subjective Truth]

The war was hell. It should always be a reminder to all of where not to go again, not just the German or Japanese person. Just because they were the aggressors doesn't take the blood off the hands of the allies from their bombing raids of Dresden, Tokyo, and other targets largely populated by civilians . Then, with the war potentially being over within a matter of months, the deployment of the atomic bombs on both Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which decimated two cities, vaporized about a half a million people, and left survivors with life long medical ailments caused by exposure to radiation and followed by scores of deaths attributed to cancers resulting from the event in 1945.

As a civilization, we must ensure an escalation of that magnitude never reaches fruition, because if it does, we will be consumed in a nuclear holocaust. We must be ever vigilant when a charismatic leader enters the stage out of nowhere offering more than reality will bear, and when blind patriotism and nationalism consumes the land. That is what Hitler created for himself, and the war mongers in the Japanese government when they propped up Emperor Hirohito as a god. Humanity should be ashamed of what we did in those bloody years of the war, not just the aggressors, but all participants.

We must not go down that road again, because we may not be talking about it as we are now. Sadly, I think the madmen of old are still among us but reading off another script wearing different masks. Stay vigilant and question everything being sold by the snake oil salesmen, and use common sense when judging a given political agenda or initiative. When something is too good to be true, it usually is not. Now, should the modern German be ashamed of what there forefathers participated in? No, that was then this now, but never forget how it happened and the consequences.


[edit on 21-2-2010 by Jakes51]

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
And being a mod you should know what does airlines into buildings have to do with this topic? I actually have to wonder about some of you it's alright if you do it but then you will pull another's for doing the same thing?

It has to do with your attitude and the way it was portrayed in the comment you posted.

It has to do with the fact that you apparently seek to belittle Germans out of sheer ignorance, and try and stick the boot in for the sake of doing it.

It has to do with your perceived - and crassly ignorant - notion that somehow the US is "keeping an eye" on the German armed forces when it is doing nothing of the sort.



As an aside - I have to say thats the second time you've pulled the "mod card" line on me.

As a moderator on ATS I am still allowed to have an opinion on subjects.

Apparently you don't understand that is the case.

Maybe you should read this Moderators are people too (and they have opinions)

reply to post by Subjective Truth


Germans are the same as everyone else, its not like their murderers. Its not like if we dont watch/control they will turn into nazis and try it again. They are equal just like natives. You would ship them away like we did to natives, why?

reply to post by neformore


Well once again your argument holds very little truth. Take a look at Japan they want to build up the military again why don't they? We are there for one reason because we will not let them build up a big military again. It is hard to argue with the facts. They are both are allies would it not be easier to let them build up a large army so we did not have to pay for it?


Also I hit the nail on the head about how it is alright for you to stretch way off topic. It must be nice to be a mod.

reply to post by walsbg22


I bet you that is what they thought after ww1 and let them sleep at night. Germany if given the chance will rise to the top they know no other way the Japanese are the same way. Are they any less or more moral "NO". They just have nationalism and the ability to put it to good use in war.