Would Germans still be ashamed for wwr2 ?

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
reply to post by ventian

 

And and I almost forgot how do you explain the countless posters and news articles? was every one asleep?

www.calvin.edu...

from above cite:

www.calvin.edu...

which was the antisemetic film encouraging absolvement from the Physical world.

This post is along the lines of a link in the listed site as "Revisionism". However, I myself am not blind to the state of war, and post/pre aggressions.

My personal view is this is a side-stepping of the true Nature of the Socialists movement, which is Domination of others.

Although the Hebrews at the time 'layed down' as according to the scripture, God or whatever you call the Divine, chose this for them. Therefore, the bombs and bullets are not as loud

reply to post by octotom


Germany because they lost ww2 can only have 370,000 troops that is it. They actually need us there to protect them because we will not let them build another military we learned after the second time we need to keep a closer eye on them. This is the simple truth and no matter how anyone wants to dance around it.

reply to post by passingthought


Thank you very much for the links . I checked them out and will spend many hours looking them over thank you again. I have about 100 Nazi posters they show anything from workers and the women's movement "RAD" to very disturbing things that I will not mention. I also have a Hitler youth movie it shows a monkey telling the kids that Jews are not human. It truly was a disturbing time indeed. I hope it never happens again.

reply to post by Subjective Truth


Where is your source that there are currently limitations on how large Germany's military can be; as you said 370,000 As it stands, the Bundeswehr has more than half a million active and reserve forces.

Yes, after the war, Germany wasn't allowed to carry a large army, but that changed when the East-West split occurred.

[edit on 2/22/2010 by octotom]

reply to post by octotom


Read my past posts in this thread I think page 4 I did not list a live link but I posted what the treaty is called you can check it out on wikipedia. We also will not let Japan have a military ever again that is why we protect them. They could do it themselves but we will not let them.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Subjective Truth]

Guilt, Oh gosh no. I grew up in the 1960's was born in the U.S I’m half German, speak and read German .taught by my grandparents. Well one day we moved to a new home sometime in 1965. The neighbors’ were Jewish on both sides. They heard me speaking German one day with my father. From then on I was being educated by my neighbors about WWII, and yes. they did try.. to make me feel guilty.

I was 7 at the time. I don’t think the war ever ended for them. Get this though ,when playing with the kids living next door on the left their parents would never let me use the bathroom or speak German in their house, sometimes it would slip though. The other neighbors on the right would never let me step inside their home ever. I don’t hate Jews , but damn. It felt like an education camp to me.

The parents on both side of us would play these type of education games, at least that’s what I called them. In these games they would teach me about WWII atrocities with their kids and to not speak German when playing with their kids. It was pure hell for a 7 year old; I didn’t have nothing to do with the WWII.

One day I showed the neighbor kid Kriegsmarine patch for WWII. It was cool looking to me. The kid told his parents about it. All hell broke loose that day in the neighborhood. Word traveled fast. We could not play together for a month.

Things were still hot in the 60’s on this subject. We moved out of the neighborhood to say the least. To many arguments between my parents and the neighbors, the neighbors and my grandparents.



[edit on 22-2-2010 by SJE98]

reply to post by Subjective Truth


Okay, I'll concede that Germany does indeed have a troop limit. Here is the pursuant paragraph from the actual text of the
treaty:

The Government of the Federal Republic of Germany undertakes to reduce the personnel strength of the armed forces of the united Germany to 370,000 (ground, air and naval forces) within three to four years. This reduction will commence on the entry into force of the first CFE agreement. Within the scope of this overall ceiling no more than 345,000 will belong to the ground and air forces which, pursuant to the agreed mandate, alone are the subject to the Negotations on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe. The Federal Government regards its commitment to reduce ground and air forces as a signficant German contribution to the reduction of conventional armed forces in Europe. It assumes that in follow-on negotiations the other participants in the negotiations, too, will render their contribution to enhancing security and stability in Europe, including measures to limit personnel strengths.

Your assertion though seems to be that Germany isn't allowed to have more than 370,000 troops because of the war. That's not the case. Germany has a troop ceiling just like all the other European nations do, due to the Treaty of Conventional Armed Forces in Europe. Basically, there is a cap on how strong any European nation can be, in a general sense, but also regionally. There is a limit to tanks, aircraft, and so on. When the limit was added to this German Treaty, these caps were in mind.

Going further in the treaty, it would seem that this was put in the treaty because of East Germany. Here is what I'm referring to:

The Government of the German Democratic Republic has expressly associated itself with this statement.

It's almost as if this whole section was put into the treaty so that people would know that East Germany understood that in unifying with West Germany, they would have to reduce their troop levels, because of the CFE treaty.

reply to post by octotom


Thanks for posting it. I have some issues with that I am kinda new and I am still figuring it out but I will learn. I would like to share more info then I can right now. Also like I have said before Germany and Japan are very strong countries and with the right leader can be very dangerous.


The German army in 1939 was a sight to behold. It was I think the best fighting force ever to walk the face of earth. And the cost to stop them was very high.

Wars and dictators will always exist and not because some people are better than others.

Lets face it we as a race are extremely susceptible to do stupid things for no reason at all. Be it politics, religion, society, racism, women, sports, traffic, fashion... food tastes?... we spend our lives just basically waiting for a reason to kick some a**.

Imagine all those action movies if there were no villains. There would be no justification to kick some a** then. The world would be perfect but... what about the a** kicking?

And all it takes is one smart guy to come along, stroke our egos, give us a target and a reason and off we go to do the very things that generations to come will be ashamed of. Doesn't even have to be a good reason we spend our lives waiting for a reason so it can be any reason.

Don't get me wrong - the generations to come aren't all that special and being ashamed of us wont really stop anything - they will also be just as stupid and fall into the very same stupidity we do.

Why? Because human beings are extremely vulnerable to the temptation of being stupid. We're not stupid. We just... really like being stupid.

So should the Germans of today feel ashamed for what their ancestors did?
I think it would be a much better start if not only the Germans but everyone in the world started feeling a little more ashamed of the stupid dumb stuff we ourselves do on a daily basis instead of talking about people that aren't here anymore.

I speak for myself. As a tribute to this thread I'll try not to do stupid things today.

Cheers.

Originally posted by swecret
Would Germans still be ashamed for wwr2 ?

Probably not.

Let's hope they're plotting their comeback from secret underground bases.

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire


I heard it is in the antarctic?

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Subjective Truth]

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Subjective Truth]

reply to post by Subjective Truth


Dude. If Germans came up out of the ocean in a thousand Mercedes UFOs and utterly destroyed Israel I would be like YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!! DIE NEUE WELTORDNUNG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And they'd have a Hitler clone. That would rule. German graphic design and leather boots. Dude.

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire


Hmm I hope it is sarcasm with you it is very hard to tell. It always leaves me guessing your a thread tease I think.

reply to post by Subjective Truth


The truth is always so subjective with you.

I tell the objective truth.

I'm all about making money and ruling the universe.

If you feel uneasy about that, then maybe you're not German.

reply to post by Subjective Truth

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
reply to post by ventian

 

You are 100% wrong. I have talked to them the people that lived in that time in Germany and they knew what was going on maybe not all of it but certainly the wars. The people have as much responsibility as Hitler or the SS. They are all one the same and couldn't exist with out each other.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Subjective Truth]

My grandmother was German , a beautiful woman like any other, the war was a time brought on by the context of the time, i assure you she did not have pre-concieved ideas of wanting to kill all jews. Your an idiot and your specious reasoning is based on no other logic other than what you want to believe. It was hard times for all and what happened was purely based on a facist regime, you know what that means right? Exactly the oppinions you are pulling out of your ass, fascist and ignorant. In a fascist or communist regime the elite rule absolutley, the Germans knew Jews were taken to work camps hundreds of miles away, didn't know they were being killed though. What were they to do, rise up, yeah that would of worked!!!! My grandfather was a succesful German banker before the war, he was forced to fight under threat of imprisonment and death of my Uncles and Father, he fought and died. As said before Hitler seized power via a false flag burning of the Reichstag to create marshall law? Any parallels like that occur recently? Why don't you watch Saving Private Ryan a few more times and obviously make your incredibly informed and first hand oppinions, you seem to be good at doing that!!!




[edit on 22-2-2010 by relap0]

Germans ashamed? What?!!

They're still working on the master plan.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire

 

Hmm I hope it is sarcasm with you it is very hard to tell. It always leaves me guessing your a thread tease I think.

I think you're not getting what he's saying. And I think you my freund live in the past. The war ended 55 years ago. Germany came out ruined, destroyed, hurt, humiliated... In few years it showed to the world that no matter what, is one of the greatest nations on Earth. It showed that by will power and geniuses, by raising from the ashes, rebuilding and taking again the place that it deserves in leading countries community. No other nation has ever done that in such a short time. The WW2 is a dark part in all humanity's history and of course the blame should go to those who lost it. That's how it works and that's why we all must learn and keep our eyes open not to let our selves be played again by governments or groups of interests. Everyone is entitled to make mistakes but when the mistake is repeated, is called guilt. Germany is a great country, with a great cultural, artistic, political and heroic past. Teutonic blood runs in every German's veins. And for them has always been, it is and is going to be forever Deutschland über alles !!! Never underestimate Germany...

p.s. A lot of ignorant people tend to interpret the über alles part as racist and warmongering but for them who have no idea, is just care and love for the motherland and dedication to their country that gives them so much pride. It means Germany above all personal interests, meaning your country comes first.



[edit on 22-2-2010 by Telos]

We Germans are nothing special. Neither in the good way nor in the bad way. We just try to live our lifes.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Siddharta]

Well the progressive red line in my post this post, is that Its time for US to let Germany free..im not German but as Swedish im member of the arian race and im speaking a germatic language an i know we are a high level, high educated, and high performing group of people and we will rise again..and i dont mean that we are some kind of nazis..nazis is a disgrace of human kind..but i mean as a strong group of EU..this is why US are scared of us..Germany is a wonderful country..

There is absolutely no reason why Germans today should feel ashamed of themselves or their country for actions committed by other people in the past. How can you blame a whole people for events that took place before they were even conceived? It's madness to suggest that Germans today deserve to be stigmatised for past actions taken by their ancestors.

This notion of "Past Guilt" is one that will lead to our downfall. There will never be peace in this world as long as people choose to live in the past and continue to blame their current problems on events of the past.

[edit on 22/2/2010 by Dark Ghost]