Joe Stack Hailed as Hero in American "patriot" resurgence -ABC news

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


But when you fly a plane into a building that you know has hundreds of people in it, you should know that you might kill numerous people. One thing I don't get is how he only killed one person besides himself.
Did he possibly know that the part of the building he crashed into would be empty of people? It looks as though he knew something about where the people were or weren't.

Since when are tax collectors innocent?

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi

Originally posted by kennylee
Something needs to be done but killing innocent people isn't the way to do it.

He did not target innocent people. His motive and his objective was to send a message to the federal government and to the people of this country.

There is a difference between the targeting of innocent people and collateral damage. The US military uses it every time they blow up a school full of children.

Unless he is a soldier in the war...he attempted to murder innocent people doing their job, thats it.

He was no soldier, he was a IT guy. America is not in the grip of a war. He targetted specifically an office building full of regular joes and janes doing their job, thinking about the barbecue on the weekend, etc...and slammed the plane into it, with the hopes of murdering these people simply because of who they work for.

Like someone flipping out that their grandmother died from a heart attack and to targetting McDonalds for selling dangerous food, blowing up a bunch of minimum wager locals for your own personal war.

Any defense of his actions should be met with contempt. I feel for him that he gave his life up verses getting a therapist and an accountant, but he deserves no praise...I suspect his newly homeless family, the widow and the fatherless daughter, thinks the same at this point.

Originally posted by kennylee
But when you fly a plane into a building that you know has hundreds of people in it, you should know that you might kill numerous people.

If you read his manifesto, you would see that killing was not his intent. Thus, anyone killed becomes collateral damage. If killing was his motive, he surely would have mentioned it in his manifesto. After all, what does he have to lose?

His sole intent was to send a message to the federal government that he as well as others are fed up with the way this country is run and to send a message to the American people to stand up and revolt.

Whether you choose to see this man as a hero or not or choose to applaud what he did or not is up to you. But the fact remains that SOMETHING needs to be done. Otherwise, our days of 'freedom' are over.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


Bull, he tried to kill employees doing their jobs according to their job descriptions.

The Tea Party connection was just debunked on the news. He never had any involvement.

I'm personally very familiar with the tax code his rant was about. What he was trying to do was get away with avoiding payroll taxes and having taxes withheld from his income and having to make his quarterly deposits. This complex code he wrote about a child could understand, if they wanted to. I had to adjust my own business to comply when the rules changed for 1099's. Do you even know what that is yourself?

He lied about the rich being able to get away with the scam he tried to pull. In fact that was a bald faced lie.

He lied and got caught. Then he took the cowards way out after he got caught. Cowards are not hero's. He was just a sleazy jerk, trying to scam the system. Then he attempted a mass murder. Thank God he was not more successful.

He did nothing to the government. He changed nothing. He cared about nobody. He only hurt innocent people.

To defend that is insane.

Sam Adams and the Boston Sons of Liberty, marched to the home of the Tax Collector, and ransacked the place, threw his furniture out the windows and then burned the place down. I believe it was 1775

On the day of the Boston Tea Party the log book of the local Masonic Order reads "Not enough members present for a quorum" Maybe thats why there have been so many nasty rumors spread about Masons...

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


Okay, so now he woke everybody up and got their attention. Like I said, something needs to be done, but nobody will stand up and do anything. We all can't fly planes into government buildings. We don't have any kind of leadership unless the militia acts, so we are right back to where we were before Joe Stack crashed his plane. Still getting screwed by Big Brother and losing everything we have...

Originally posted by SaturnFX
with the hopes of murdering these people simply because of who they work for.

I could easily make the same case for fighters of Al Qaeda. Why target them because of who they work for? They do not reap the benefits of their own sacrifices. Their wealthy leaders do.

Your McDonalds analogy is relevant, but unfortunately for your point, so is my Al Qaeda one.

When you stand on the front lines for the enemy, you are the one who is targeted. If people refused to be compensated slaves of these intrusive and corrupt federal agencies then this country would be a lot better off.

If you or anyone else wants a non-violent revolution, tell everyone holding a government job to pursue another career. If not, you and them both need to be prepared to deal with the fact that people are going to die simply because of who they work for.

reply to post by Blaine91555


so its ok for the system to scam us and thats ok because you know, they are the system, its ok cause they are the government... thier position makes them immune to be wrong... they cant be wrong?

reply to post by TheCoffinman


I did not say that in any way shape or form. No what they do to us is not OK. Neither is making a hero of a scumbag, OK.

This man tried to kill people who did nothing to him. How hard is that to understand. His Manifesto is nonsense. He did not give a damn about you or me. He had no cause other than himself and his own selfish desires.

The people he tried to kill were ordinary people doing their jobs. He did not give a damn who was there when he flew that airplane into that building. There is no difference between him and any other murdering psychopath.

reply to post by TheCoffinman


There is no difference between the arab jihadists and the plane terrorists of 9/11 taking their frustrations out on innocent americans, and the armed chair revolutionaries cheering on suicide missions at the expense of other lifes.

Both are one in the same. You are no different in belief to the attacks on the day of 9/11. You are no different to the suicide bombers who kill on a daily basis in Iraq, Palestine and in some cases Israel.

All the same in thinking, just different countries and cultures.

I just heard about the second body (victim) being removed. A Vietnam Veteran who left six children and their families behind. What did they do to this man?

Sometimes I find it offensive to even be a member of the human species. Anyone considering this the act of a hero is as disgusting as he is.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi

 

He lied about the rich being able to get away with the scam he tried to pull. In fact that was a bald faced lie.
He lied and got caught. Then he took the cowards way out after he got caught. Cowards are not hero's. He was just a sleazy jerk, trying to scam the system. Then he attempted a mass murder. Thank God he was not more successful.

I have one thing to say to you, Blain91555.
Timothy Gietner




[edit on 19-2-2010 by Violater1]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


thats quite an ignorant statement. there hasnt been a suicide bombing in israel for months, hasnt been one in palestine in forever... ive not once stated my position on the subject, i am arguing for the sake of discussion and i feel the people who argue thats this guy was a suicidal murdering scumbag havent a grip on the reality of what it means to be at war.. even if, for now, its just one man's war.

i wonder what % of americans believe this guy is a hero and what % dont... as ive stated before only 1/3rd of americans in 1776 were FOR the revolution, 1/3rd against and 1/3rd nuetral...

I wonder if the world's forgotten about Marvin Heemeyer? This story sort of reminds me of that.

Originally posted by MontanaMike
I wonder if the world's forgotten about Marvin Heemeyer?

I applaud him as well.

What you people do not understand is that these sorts of measures are the only way to defeat these criminals. They have stacked the law in their favor to the point that any prospect of a peaceful revolution through legal channels is non-existent.

Don't get me wrong: I don't condone the killing of innocent people. I know some of you as well as the media will try to make people believe that so as to suit your own interests, but it's simply not the truth.

Sometimes violence is the answer. This is one of those times.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
and to think, all you have to do is attempt to murder your wife and child, then try to kill some clerks doing their job in a suicide spiral to be considered a hero..

and here I was, like a sucker, considering being a fireman...might as well just set fires and be the peoples hero.


-sarcasm-

I don't think that what he did was heroic, murder suicide is the highest form of selfishness.

reply to post by TheCoffinman

havent a grip on the reality of what it means to be at war..

This was not an act of war, it was perpetrated upon the innocent,

Originally posted by TheCoffinman
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

thats quite an ignorant statement. There hasnt been a suicide bombing in israel for months, hasnt been one in palestine in forever...

Who is the ignorant one here? There had been a large number of attacks on Israel and Palestine by individuals in the same line of reasoning as the supporters of this man. Those who disrehard the lives of the innocent to push forward their political agenda:
www.nytimes.com...
www.freepressinternational.com...

Why on earth would you blatantly deny such a thing? You are no different from the Jihadists, the fundamentalists. They see killing of innocent people as the only way to spread their political outcry, you are no different in supporting this attack. They claim the victims are a necessary result, you claim the same thing. You are one in the same to the Jihadiststs. I invite you to argue what exactly makes you any different from them.

ive not once stated my position on the subject,

You had made it clear where you stand on the matter:

well the mainstream news has picked up on the fact that alot of americans are pissed off... how many here think they prolly came here to see what our sentiments were...

because you clearly speculated that the article is based off your sentiments here. So, I dont know why you are all of sudden running away from what is clearly your standing over the matter.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by Southern Guardian]

Still comes to the fact that he attempted to murder innocent people simply doing their 9-5.

Yep and the powers that be are on the same shift I dont condone killing any one but hay if there going to try and take me out well all bets are off