Argentina to blockade Falkland waters in dispute over oil rights

im starting to wonder why the argentine president is being so bold....
after reading all of the posts here, it is obvious that argentina would be comitting suicide attacking our forces.
and that the uk government would strike the argentinian mainland if attacked is intriguing....

britain is being to predictable, we are telling them what we will do.

What if the argentinian president has been assured behind closed doors that an attack on one south american country is an attack on them all?

www.timesonline.co.uk...

"Chavez vows revenge for Falklands war"
IN a new outburst of antiwestern sabre-rattling, President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela has threatened Britain with “revenge” for the Falklands war of 1982. The belligerent Latin American leftist warned last week that his recent build-up of sophisticated Russian and Iranian weapons would be used to destroy the British fleet if it attempted to return to the South Atlantic.

Speaking on his weekly television show Alo Presidente (Hello, Mr President), Chavez denounced what he described as Britain’s “illegal occupation” of the Falklands and repeated his call for a regional military alliance against Britain and the United States.

“If we had been united in the last war, we could have stopped the old empire,” Chavez said, as he gesticulated to maps showing how Venezuelan aircraft and submarines would intercept British warships. “Today we could sink the British fleet.”

i remembered this article a couple of years ago and thought it interesting, and chavez has bought some potent russian hardware.

in the words of admiral ackbar " its a trap!"

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by Max Devoe

 

Britain has enough plutonium reserves to make 10,000 nuclear weapons.

Good for them!
If they need more they can buy from us at a good price
We have about 309,370 tons in uranium reserves.
But they already have a member of the Commonwealth with bigger reserves than us :Australia has at the moment the world's largest uranium reserves .
I just said in my comment that Brazil does not need a war between Argentine and UK to achieve anything new, it was not a provocation .


[edit on 18-2-2010 by Max Devoe]

Originally posted by hans kammler
“If we had been united in the last war, we could have stopped the old empire,” Chavez said, as he gesticulated to maps showing how Venezuelan aircraft and submarines would intercept British warships. “Today we could sink the British fleet.”

i remembered this article a couple of years ago and thought it interesting, and chavez has bought some potent russian hardware.

You know, I have no axe to grind against Chavez - he is what he is - and sadly in this case he's a military ignoramus.

The UK's strategy to defend the Falklands shifted from sea to Air when RAF Mount Pleasant was upgraded. The whole strategy is based around ferrying from the UK, refuelling at Ascension and landing on the islands. The forces deployed are designed to protect the Airfield and airspace long enough for that to happen.

Chavez's subs aren't going to stop that.

reply to post by disfugured

Argentina is just making it harder for the Britts to bring home their black gold.

No. The crude wont come to Britain. It'll go to the recently expanded US deepwater facilities on the Gulf of Mexico.
The more I think about this, the more it makes sense.

Originally posted by hans kammler

“If we had been united in the last war, we could have stopped the old empire,” Chavez said, as he gesticulated to maps showing how Venezuelan aircraft and submarines would intercept British warships. “Today we could sink the British fleet.”

i remembered this article a couple of years ago and thought it interesting, and chavez has bought some potent russian hardware.

in the words of admiral ackbar " its a trap!"

Chavez reminds me of an old movie with Peter Sellers: "The Mouse That Roared"

He bought some Russian anti-aircraft land based system and some SU-27 fighters and I think they are not even flying yet.
The consequences of such stupid act of aggression would be immeasurable.

reply to post by neformore


its not the subs, its the sukhoi su-30 fighters and brahmos anti ship missiles that are quite worrying, they would definetely be a threat to anything we can send down there. seriously the su-30 is thought to be on par with the typhoon, and brahmos is like exocet on steroids.
we should be worried because chavez is being uncharacteristically quiet right now.

hes the man im watching to make an announcement once britain and argentinas aircraft and vessels are all in place.

reply to post by Max Devoe


su 30 multi role fighters, 24 of them, equipped with anti ship missiles with a speed of mach 3 and a range of 290 km.
the pilots had already been trained in russia to fly these fighters. that was in 2007 so they are even more experienced right now!
9 diesel electric submarines were ordered on 2007 too, russian made and capapble of firing cruise missiles. so this is one mouse that can roar!

Sure the Su30 is a fantastic fighter but its not on the level of a typhoon. Its more comparable to an upgraded f15. That being said its a good enough plane to provide a headache for the RAF if there was a confrontation.

Edit: That being said maneuvering wise i think the sukhoi might have the edge. Still i think the typhoon just shades it overall.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by jonny2410]

Originally posted by hans kammler
reply to post by Max Devoe

 

su 30 multi role fighters, 24 of them, equipped with anti ship missiles with a speed of mach 3 and a range of 290 km.
the pilots had already been trained in russia to fly these fighters. that was in 2007 so they are even more experienced right now!
9 diesel electric submarines were ordered on 2007 too, russian made and capapble of firing cruise missiles. so this is one mouse that can roar!

Consequences! I was talking about consequences.
British can deal with all that crap .

reply to post by jonny2410
What if this is all just an excuse to recolonise South America? An excuse like the recolonisation of the Middle East? Chavez is Saddam. Kirchners Argies are the new Afghans. The Us would probly love to have more control down there, why not get the UK to help them out and take out much of South America by tempting the Argies into confronting the Royal Navy?

The Su-30 is not a mach 3 fighter. There are no mach 3 fighters anywhere in the world since the MiG 25 was retired.

It has often been said that the RN would have been victorious in the air if they had been flying the Mirage and the Argentines had the Sea Harrier instead. Its not just what you have, its also about using it properly. Providing the RAF doesn't make stupid basic errors they should handle any South American fighter pilots, in anything.

This is not down to some imaginary innate superiority, it is tactics, training and experience.

reply to post by waynos


i was talking about the anti ship misiles they can carry, the brahmos, i could have worded that better to avoid confusion!

reply to post by infinite

Israel wishes to join the Commonwealth too.

Wow! Really? That I've heard absolutely nothing about. I really just cant see how that could happen unless Britain left the Commonwealth! Could you give us a link?

reply to post by hans kammler


Ah, right. Well, of course such a weapon would be a threat, but the Venezuelan Navy would still have to get them within launching distance, and we will be on such a heightened state of alert that, if we are doing our jobs properly, they would be stopped.

I have a really hard time believing the claims that other countries would join combat on Argentina's side.

This is clearly a UK/Argentina squabble with nothing to gain for anyone else. The UK would be operating with non combatant support from the USA (100% certain - just like last time, plus the UK's support for recent US ventures will count in our favour).

Non combatant support from other SA countries for Argentina would also be a given, I would imagine, but actually joining in the fight is an entirely different kettle of fish, and a risk of drawing in US forces on the British side that even Argentina would not want them to take - plus, would Chavez really want to give the USA an excuse to 'neutralise' Venezuela to restore the balance of 1v1 again?

reply to post by waynos


are you aware that peru offered air combat missions against britain in the falklands war, and brazil supplied air refuelling flights for argentinian fighters i the war?
chavez has offered more, whos to say that the situation cannot get more complicated.
if the navy isnt expecting to be hit by another force then how can they be prepared for it?
the more you look at whats been happening in south america , you will see the situation is growing quite tense.
a falklands confrontation could be the spark to ignite a regional war.

i listed these events in the other falklands thread but, as this is the current one i shall prefer to post here.for the sake of chopping and changing i shall post these events unfolding in here;

chavez nationalising oil companies,
usa reactivating its fourth fleet (south america)
venezuela buys russian military hardware ,announces falklands can be retaken and should ally with argentina if conflict with uk arises.
usa opens military bases in columbia and raises tensions to war level.troops massed on venezuelan/columbian border.
argentina attempts blockade of falklands..........

am i the only one looking at the big picture?

reply to post by waynos


brahmos can be fired from su-30s, making them very dangerous to the old t42s we would be sending.

I'm generally quite supportive of what Chaves is trying to do for Venezuala. I understand that it involves attempting to generate some national pride & thus draw together various disparate elements of Venezualan society into some kind of cohesion. That said, the man does tend to talk a lot of bollocks at times...

reply to post by hans kammler


Yeah i gotta say... right now it feels like the whole world is a giant powder keg...

No offence... but i hope your wrong

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by rizla
The posters saying Britain will hand Argentina a good whacking and will then go on to retake ex-colonies are dreaming. The Argentinians have timed it well. The UK cannot afford anything, yet alone another war.

Seriously don't underestimate us.

We might be living under the spectrum of idiotic, naive, greedy or inept government , but the UK army is one of the best trained armies in the world.

What we lack in weaponry (which has advanced since 1982) we make up in tactics, training and coordination.

don t forget your huge experience in naval battle. UK and Argentina are the only countries that has been engage in major naval battle since world war 2

reply to post by hans kammler


I'd be interested in more information of the Peruvian offer of combat ops in 1982. I do not recall ever seeing that mentioned in any account that I have read. Brazils FR flights is exactly the sort of non combat support I was referring to. In every account that I am familiar with the other SA countries were at great pains to remain strictly neutral. Remember one of the RAF's Vulcans was also allowed to land in Brazil after a bombing raid. As a sop to Argentina the aircraft was interned, but they could have just said no.

Talk is cheap and lots of things might be said to 'big up' yourself during times of tension like this. Taking it to the next level and starting a shooting war is a very big step indeed and the magnitude of doing that should not be underestimated.

That was exactly the reason the first invasion took place in 1982. The Argentines were certain that Britain would stop short of actually going into combat. They cannot be under that illusion now.

I know you are considering the actions of the other SA nations if this were to happen, but what of Britains allies?

They would all be quite happy to stay out of a squabble between us and Argentina. But if British forces and sovereign territory are attacked by a coalition of nations the response would be entirely different. Especially as Argentina are quite unequivocally the aggressors.

You would then be in a situation that has parrallels witht eh Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1991. And we all know what happened there.

If other nations were to throw their military forces behind Argentina's Malvinas claim then Britain would not be fighting alone.

Personally, I dont believe any of them are really that stupid and so the tension will simmer for a while but not actually lead to anything.

Of course I could be wrong, but I don't think it is fair to say that you are the only one looking at the bigger picture.