Argentina to blockade Falkland waters in dispute over oil rights

I also meant to address these points you raised earlier, so I'll do it now.

britain is being to predictable, we are telling them what we will do.

No we're not. What we are doing is making sure they understand the gravity of what they seem to be proposing. All the where's, when's and hows will be strictly under wraps.

We are also very good at kidology.

Twop examples from '82 was when theior troops bcame terrified that the Gurkha's were coming. They never were, but we let them think it.

There was also the spectre raised of Vulcan bomber raids on Buenes Aires. There was never any plan to actually do that, but the fear of it tied up a lot of fighters.

What if the argentinian president has been assured behind closed doors that an attack on one south american country is an attack on them all?

The trouble with that is such declarations are worthless if they are secret. These sort of pacts only serve one purpose, to dissuade an aggressor. They cannot do that if they are not public declarations, and Britian is not the aggressor here.

The alternative is that they are ganging up to START a war, that is altogether more sinister and would certainly result in a huge conflict against a coalition of forces on the British side too.

To draw a historical parallel, Chavez is a sort of Mussolini figure. Very gobby, but nothing of substance to back it up.

reply to post by hans kammler


Chavez is an idiot.

The Carl Vinson is not that far from his coast right now and two more carriers are in the Western Atlantic off the coast of the US.

Venezuela is basically a skip and hop from every Air Force Base in the US.

He attacks a NATO ally and he will have no one to blame but his own stupidity when we wipe out his military.

I think some people in here are letting their pride and patriotism run away with them. The amount of british troops that can no longer fight is huge because of Afghanistan. People forget that you don't have to be killed in action to be permanently out of action. Britain have lost a lot of soldiers due to injuries and psychological trauma, I remember a few months ago there was a report that said something like a third of british troops were unfit for action. Blair and Brown have severly screwed up britain by selling off their industry to overseas and borrowing money like it's going out of fashion. They have also severely cut back spending within the military to the point were troops in afghanistan dont have adequate kit and vehicles are badly run down. Despite what the MSM will tell you the british economy is a mess. This couldn't be a better time for Argentina to strike and if other countries get involved such as Venezuela then britain could be in serious trouble.

Originally posted by SpaceMonkeys

Despite what the MSM will tell you the british economy is a mess. This couldn't be a better time for Argentina to strike and if other countries get involved such as Venezuela then britain could be in serious trouble.

Argentina's economy is in an even bigger mess, and their military is even worse than their economy.

Harking back to 1982, our economy was in worse shape and militarily we were much worse.

Manpower wise, we might be worse off, but in terms of tech, we are way above the curve.


A little context is a wonderfull thing...

reply to post by Blaine91555

I don't think Americans are the naitives of the us neither

Remember the Sheffield Class Destroyers now are fitted with Phalanx, which they were not back in 82. It's going to be tougher to get an Exocet or similar in close. Another incident like HMS Sheffield will make the UK see red, and there will be hell to pay. You haven't experienced anything like a really p***ed off Brit.

Don't forget that there are cruise missile equipped subs likely in the area. It's not just torpedoes these days. These things can hit pretty much any target the wish.

If this thing gets to fisticuffs, and it's a one-against-one fight, the Argies (sorry, couldn't help it. I was at a certain age when the 1982 fight happened...Scary times) will not win.

It would take +/- 24 hours for a lot of very well equipped, bored, battle hardened combat troops to be ferried from wherever they are to the 'front.' Plus, there's a bone to pick on this one. I think just sending in 2 and 3 Para with a good pep talk would probably do it! It really would be a great excuse for the UK to exit the Afghanistan/Iraq mess without dishonour, and would also bring US support.

24 Hours is very do-able for the contingent currently on the Falklands to defend, and there's enough firepower there to fend off pretty much anything the Argentinians have. If it's just sabre rattling, the UK has a much bigger sword.

They're going to wish the UK still just had Harriers and Vulcans! The Typhoon is a very capable platform with superior avionics, and it carries the AMRAAM not just the older sidewinders that the Fleet Air Arm had back in '82. The mid-air refuelling capabilities are far superior all around and the infrastructure is there to implement a very large scale mobilization. Remember there are still a lot of active Tornado squadrons too. That's a battle tested aircraft with great capabilities.

The Argentinians will back down. If they don't, they really aren't that clever. They may have bloodied the UK's nose in '82, but it didn't last long. That conflict is still very fresh in the minds of the Brits, and they don't forget quickly. What I'm saying is that it will get personal.

Originally posted by Badgered1
Remember the Sheffield Class Destroyers now are fitted with Phalanx, which they were not back in 82. It's going to be tougher to get an Exocet or similar in close. Another incident like HMS Sheffield will make the UK see red, and there will be hell to pay. You haven't experienced anything like a really p***ed off Brit.

....

The Argentinians will back down. If they don't, they really aren't that clever. They may have bloodied the UK's nose in '82, but it didn't last long. That conflict is still very fresh in the minds of the Brits, and they don't forget quickly. What I'm saying is that it will get personal.

Cool story, bro.

Well if the nations of this planet are going to start ripping each other apart for oil reserves then the Falklands is just as good a place to start for South America as Iraq was for the USA/UK.

I've noted the patriotic chest thumping on this thread too as others have. But just remember this people, Chavez has started a South American movement that wishes to achieve autonomy from the Anglo/Gringo powers that be, who have raped Central/South America in the past for just about everything it was worth. Those people down there still remember the death squads and torturers trained in the USA at the School of the Americas in Fort Benning Georgia.

South America with the exception of Columbia (who went to bed with the Devil and now has to sleep with him in return) is beginning to realize its potential to completely throw off the time honored yoke that has seen nothing more than exploitation of its countrymen and the resources that they live upon. Bolivia and Venezuela started the trend by nationalizing their oil. The corporatocracy of the world has been spinning damage control towards them every since but to this date has been unsuccessful in regaining what was lost there..

If Argentina is ready to rattle the saber than perhaps they are armed a little bit better than most here are even aware of. And perhaps they are backed by a good percentage of S/A to boot. Let's say Venezuela, Argentina decide it's time to take back the oil reserves in the Falklands. If Brazil jumps on board than forget about it people. The islands are lost. And if the UK decided to start hitting targets on the mainland as well this will open up to retaliations from those countries against the UK too don't forget. I think if anything happens at all it will stay in the ocean and islands.

Also, the days of dreadnoughts and aircraft carriers are coming to a close as better and more sophisticated ship busters are being manufactured abroad. Russia has made astonishing breakthroughs in this area (i.e. the Sunburn SS-N-22 missile). If any of those countries are being armed by the Russians than you can bet that they probably have a few of them. To this date, I know of no anti Sunburn defensive contingencies. If anyone here knows of a system that has been created to deal with those lethal ship busters than I'd like to hear about it because from what I've heard the phalanxes can't come close to stopping them as they move too fast and intelligently to be stopped by them.

I can not speak for the combat readiness of the UK, but here in the USA I'd strongly wager that Obama wont have the resources to start fighting Latin Americans in the jungles like Johnson did in Vietnam. Sure the US could do some bombing raids on Venezuela but this would only strengthen the resolve of anti-americanism that has been growing since the 40s.

So we'd be left with the UK having to send the bulk of its navy just to defend the Falklands. And let's say that the UK successfully defends the islands in the opening weeks. Well how long is this going to last for if the Argentinean government remains intact? How much money does the UK wish to invest to hold on to these tiny islands? Does the constant flotilla of ships eventually make those oil reserves fruitless?

I see Argentina having a better situation in front of them than most are giving credit for right now. The only real deterrent that I can see is perhaps their president's shaky public opinion rating. But what if the UK starts hitting coastal defenses on the mainland and spark patriotic fervor there too?

I just don't know folks, I don't see the UK keeping those islands as a foregone conclusion just yet.

Having said all of the above I realize it is quite possible that the exact same situation in 82, with Argentina being isolated and politically destabilized could be possible as well.

Then again nothing might happen. But If two or three S/A countries back Argentina than this could get real interesting really fast.

And as to the argument that has been put forth that those people of the Falklands support the UK, I'd counter that the Zionists are doing the same thing in their colonization pushes into Palestine by planting their citizens across their borders too. Ask those colonists if they support Israel's right to the land that Israel put them on and I'd wager two goat titties that they'd vote for continued Israeli influence as well. If anything the planting of UK folks there was to have the desired effect that it has today. There's nothing special about their wish to keep their UK masters at all in my opinion.

Let me also point out that being a US citizen, I'm all for the USA having all of it's mean little bases shut down abroad as well. So please folks, don't get the idea that I'm anti-UK or anything because I'm not. I've been to England before and have found the people there to be a cut above most any other country and I've been to a lot of them.

If the UK keeps the status quo as a dreary far flung colony with terrible weather and poor cultivating soil than that's one thing. I say live and let live if that turns out to be the case. But if they try and turn the coast of the Falklands into another North Sea than I see this severely antagonizing Argentina and a few other S/A countries to boot who will be able to employ the "Look at what the Anglo/Gringos are doing to us again" argument. This could really be the true spark in the future that sets off the powder keg. I wonder if the UK is actually doing that as we speak or at least getting equipment into the area and this is the real issue that the Argentineans are grumbling about.

I don't think the time is right just yet unless Argentina has a few aces in the hole that nobody knows about as explained above.

reply to post by 3DPrisoner


I love the way you distilled the whole thread down to evil chest beating Brits threatening to bomb South America for oil putting this thread on par with the threads advocating turning Iran in to glass.

While completly missing the fact that almost no one is advocating war, if you want to play the Brits are all evil and out for oil card that is fine...

Ok, you obviously know all about the situation, so what about places like Guyana?

Which as a Commonwealth nation has chosen to part of CARICOM. and if there was antagonism between Britian, Venezuela and Brazil, that would certainly be a focal point of trouble, except it's not..

And if Britian wanted to interfere with either country that would be a good starting point, and yet Britain hasn't.

And just to confirm, Argentina had plans to attack British bases, just as Britain had plans to attack Argentine bases, but neither country followed through, as I am sure they both have the same plans this time, so again try not to make this out to be so one sided.

I would ask tho, why some North Americans would like to see both Venezuela and Brazil at war with Britain when everyone else seems to want a peaceful solution??

Edit to add: why do you bring Palestine into play?? you do know that they have already made noises that they would like to join the British Commonwealth on independence??

[edit on 19/2/10 by thoughtsfull]

Four warships are in the South Atlantic, including the destroyer York anchored off the islands' capital Port Stanley, and four RAF bombers have been deployed as a show of strength, military sources claimed.

The oil rig is arriving today and the UK has increased its military operations. I'm investigating reports of so called "warning shots" being fired by the British Navy.

I'll keep ATS updated

reply to post by infinite


Sounds like an interesting developement, hope it amounts to nothing..

Thanks for posting

reply to post by 3DPrisoner


Most Americans arn't really native to America either, so how about you pack your bags up and leave? And I guess we'll take the Australians back to Britian too while we're at it. Didn't think so...


The population of the Falkland islands wish to remain British, and I would like to hope the UK would put everything we have into defending that...and as much as we can't really leave Afghanistan now because people do depend on us there...I would like to see us leave if need be to defend the Falklands.

If Afghanistan was placed above the Falklands in importance I can see some VERY angry people on the streets. Sure there may be some chest pounding and overly patriotic comments but why not? To me the Falklands are as good as being part of the UK and I would have them defended to the last man. This is potential war on the 'home turf', I think we're allowed to act a tad patriotic at times

[edit on 19-2-2010 by StevenDye]

reply to post by StevenDye


I'm not British, I'm American. I can honestly say that the USA will not take sides on this because Argentina is designated 'a major non-NATO ally'. So we won't pick sides. Now if another country was to invade per se Puerto Rico we would be all on them like flies on sh*t. We would never let any country 'poke us' when it comes to a territory of ours and I/we would expect the same from the UK. So if Argentina keeps poking the bear we may see the bear swipe.

According to the Sun this morning, HMS York was ALREADY at the Falklands for the last 18 days. So... who slipped out of the dockyards the other day? The only one I can think of is HMS Chatham.

The Argies will not know what hit them when we unleash our fury. If they try anything, then we will go down in force to throw them back into the sea. We might even ask the Americans for help - We went into Afganistan and Iraq with them after all

Originally posted by 3DPrisoner

I don't think the time is right just yet unless Argentina has a few aces in the hole that nobody knows about as explained above.

The Argentinian's have been studying..


Argentina was the only South American country to send warships and cargo planes in 1991 to the Gulf War under UN mandate and has remained involved in peacekeeping efforts in multiple locations like Croatia/Bosnia, Gulf of Fonseca, UNFICYP in Cyprus (where among Army and Marines troops the Air Force provided the UN Air contingent since 1994) and MINUSTAH in Haiti.

UNFICYP was also a precedent in the Latin American military as troops of Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay, Peru and Uruguay are embedded in the Argentine contingent[9]

Since 1999 and as of June 2006, Argentina is the only Latin American country to maintain troops in Kosovo during SFOR (and later EUFOR) operations where combat engineers of the Argentine Armed Forces are embedded in an Italian brigade.

Argentine military forces formed part of [10]

* Haiti - UN MINUSTAH video ( Including the Mobile Field Hospital and helicopters )
* Cyprus - UN UNFICYP ( including ARGAIR helicopters [11] )
* Kosovo - NATO KFOR (CICKO) pictorial
* Kosovo - UN UNMIK
* Belgium - NATO ICC-SHAPE
* Bosnia - NATO EUFOR

And as military observers in UNTSO, MINURSO, UNMIL, MONUC, UNMIS and ONUCI.

Argentina was also responsible for the White Helmets initiative.

Originally posted by BSG75
According to the Sun this morning, HMS York was ALREADY at the Falklands for the last 18 days. So... who slipped out of the dockyards the other day? The only one I can think of is HMS Chatham.

The Argies will not know what hit them when we unleash our fury. If they try anything, then we will go down in force to throw them back into the sea. We might even ask the Americans for help - We went into Afganistan and Iraq with them after all

America will not help at all, we won't even pick sides. And here's why

Subsequent MNNAs
Named by Bill Clinton administration

Jordan (1996)
New Zealand (1997)
Argentina (1998)

en.wikipedia.org...

So as you can tell Argentina is a great friend of ours and we won't turn against a friend. We won't even take sides, we will stay neutral. Now I must warn the British 1 thing, if America continues to piss the Chinese off I would not be suprised if their way of retaliation is to give weapons to Argentina to fight Great Britain.

Originally posted by Misoir
if America continues to piss the Chinese off I would not be suprised if their way of retaliation is to give weapons to Argentina to fight Great Britain.

Won't happen. UK supports the one China policy and the Chinese are neutral on the position of the Falklands. Plus, the UK is the biggest champion in wanting to end the EU arms embargo against.

Originally posted by Misoir

Originally posted by BSG75
According to the Sun this morning, HMS York was ALREADY at the Falklands for the last 18 days. So... who slipped out of the dockyards the other day? The only one I can think of is HMS Chatham.

The Argies will not know what hit them when we unleash our fury. If they try anything, then we will go down in force to throw them back into the sea. We might even ask the Americans for help - We went into Afganistan and Iraq with them after all

America will not help at all, we won't even pick sides. And here's why

Subsequent MNNAs
Named by Bill Clinton administration

Jordan (1996)
New Zealand (1997)
Argentina (1998)

en.wikipedia.org...

So as you can tell Argentina is a great friend of ours and we won't turn against a friend. We won't even take sides, we will stay neutral. Now I must warn the British 1 thing, if America continues to piss the Chinese off I would not be suprised if their way of retaliation is to give weapons to Argentina to fight Great Britain.

They don't need Chinese arms when Russia would willingly back them and already so i suspect.

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by Misoir
if America continues to piss the Chinese off I would not be suprised if their way of retaliation is to give weapons to Argentina to fight Great Britain.

Won't happen. UK supports the one China policy and the Chinese are neutral on the position of the Falklands. Plus, the UK is the biggest champion in wanting to end the EU arms embargo against.

Any updates on the warning shots infinite?

Originally posted by infinite

The oil rig is arriving today and the UK has increased its military operations. I'm investigating reports of so called "warning shots" being fired by the British Navy.

Ah so the Brits are going to try and turn the area into another North Sea. Tisk, tisk. Next move belongs to the Argentineans.

Originally posted by thoughtsful I love the way you distilled the whole thread down to evil chest beating Brits threatening to bomb South America for oil putting this thread on par with the threads advocating turning Iran in to glass.

While completly missing the fact that almost no one is advocating war, if you want to play the Brits are all evil and out for oil card that is fine...
Edit to add: why do you bring Palestine into play?? you do know that they have already made noises that they would like to join the British Commonwealth on independence??

First off if you're going to try and put words in another members mouth here, make sure you use the right words as everyone here can see right through what your trying to do easily enough. When you can find where I said that the Brits are "evil chest beaters threatening to bomb South America" than I'll gain much more respect for you than I have right now as of this moment.

As to nobody advocating war is concerned, I think you missed the point once again. "Uh excuse me dear sir but please don't mind me or attempt a fist fight towards my person while I steal your wallet, ok? Mind you I'm a peaceful person not advocating war dear chap, I'm just out for your natural resources, ha, ha, jollies mate. See you on the next cup of tea."

Yeah, I wouldn't be advocating war if I were in the UK's position right now either. All those ships to protect those potential oil assets, well ain't that cute?. The USA is doing the same thing in the Middle East right now and I don't condone it either. I'm highly against it as it has wrecked over 200 years of diplomacy and destroyed countless lives to the point of being down right sickening and a stain on the human race as a result. If you choose to ride the coat tails of big corporate interests in the thinly veiled guise of protecting a few colonists who were planted there with no other intent than to retain a land claim than that's on you. I'm brave enough to admit that my government is wrong. So yours is in the right and just so happens to splendidly dovetail into big oil revenues for the oil giants down the road. Well good on you and the peace flag you're waving from the top of a battleship protecting an oil rig.

I bring Palestine into play because the parallels are easy enough to discern. Sorry if you missed the point deliberately again. Ha, ha, jollies.

Now I've watched the patriots attack the voices of dissent already on this page enough so I know full well what is coming if I keep responding. I'm not afraid of it, I'm just tired of spending energy towards it as nobody's mind is ever changed anyway. I've said my piece and will move on as I don't wish to feed or be dragged into a flame war. If any of you choose to ignore what I had to say only to try nasty emotional attacks or make false accusations then that's all good because I'm already gone.

That said, I hope the best turns out for the Brits because I meant what I said about my genuine good feelings towards those people. I learned a long time ago to separate a people from their rulers. I just wish they as well as us Americans would stop following these wicked leaders of ours so we could throw the passports away and stop cooperating with them.

I have a close friend who lives in Argentina and he assures me that the people there absolutely hate their government for being the plundering thieves that they are. It is a shame that oil has to be the root of evil in this world once again that divides rather than unites. The only thing I've ever seen oil unite is profits for rich people.







[edit on 19-2-2010 by 3DPrisoner]