Reasons To Believe

reply to post by davesidious

I don't believe because I know it's ridiculous to base one's view of the universe and infinity on a self-contradicting, frequently-inaccurate, allegorical bronze-age farmer's manual.

Wow how did I miss daves post?
You don't believe because you don't know how to feel anything.
You only have five senses and if evolution is correct then you're underdeveloped. The hair never stands up on the back of your neck
and you never get goose bumps.
I would say you most likely don't even have any tear ducts.
People who don't have it by now are never going to get it or see where their mistake is. I'll say this a little louder this time.

THE TIME OF THE GENTILES IS OVER!

If you don't know Jesus today. Chances are fading that you ever will.
You will have to find him on your own. That will be getting more and more difficult in the very near future. You see I'm confused a little about what
the means will be. Could even be a Chritian holocaust. I know that Gods
word says there will be a harvest.
What do you harvest with? A cycle.
Who carry's a cycle and rides a horse cloaked in black?
I believe soon God will give all those who hate Christ the world they so
desperately think they want. Why wouldn't he. Wheather or not they like the results will also be a choice.
Choosing not to belisve in God leads absolutely nowhere.
Leaving you with so much to know and so little time.



[edit on 18-2-2010 by randyvs]

I'd like to thank everybody on this thread. It's been very interesting to ponder the original question and observe how people react to it.

The original title of this thread was Reasons To Believe.

Wiki definition:

Reason is a human mental faculty that is able to generate conclusions from assumptions or premises. The meaning of the word "reason" in this sense overlaps to a large extent with "rationality" and the adjective of "reason" in philosophical contexts is normally "rational", rather than "reasoned" or "reasonable". The concept of 'reason' is closely related to the concepts of language and logic, as reflected in the multiple meanings of the Greek word "logos", the root of logic, which translated into Latin became "ratio" and then in French "raison", from which the English word "reason" was derived. Reason is often contrasted with authority, intuition, emotion, mysticism, superstition, and faith, and is thought by rationalists to be more reliable than these in discovering what is true or what is best.

Everything I've read so far is based on circular logic (i.e. "because the bible/Jesus says so"), superstition, fear of the unknown (death), fear of life without a higher (devine) purpose and flat out rejection of science, Darwinism in particular.

There are no reasons to believe in any religion! It's a trick question. All religions are based on faith, which is not a logical reason. I challenge anybody to defend a religion without resorting to faith and circular logic. I don't think it can be done.

I posit that the question is an oxymoron.

It's entirely possible that I missed a logical argument for a religion. I would like for you to point that out to me.

Thank you,

N

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by ImaNutter

 

Your very welcome. I've known a few Unitarians very good and tolerant people. I'm not exactly one of them but I do respect them more than most. Just under agnostics as a matter of fact. But, I don't think if there is an entity that we would call God it'll be as petty and vengeful as certain faiths try to say it is, with self serving reason IMHO.

You see for there to be a God he must be self-serving. Who else could serve God?

reply to post by Nichiren


Feelings do yours ever get hurt? Do have them ? Where are they?
Can you see them. Disect them. They are irrational and ilogical.
I guess the don't exist. No reason.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by Daniem

 

I don't explain evolution. I just don't believe that the knowledge we think we know of evolution can save me. We are born, we live, we die. I know not how God makes this existence work. If I did, then I would be God.

"God" makes this existence work by telling doctors to wash their hands before delivering a baby, so the germs won't infect and kill. Oh wait, it was a Hungarian scientist who discovered it

Why is science and its explanation of evolution so bad? I really don't get it.

Why on earth would I want that responsibility. Man kind with never, in this existence, understand how everything works. Not even as a collective.

Instead of putting your head in the sand, you study and observe nature and its laws. So that you can save lives with the knowledge how things WORK. See example above.

If there is nothing after you die, then what is the knowledge that you deem necessary to learn do for you in the end?

You preserve knowledge (books, data-files, etc.) so that the next generation will know MORE. You can also tell your fellow MDs that antiseptics is good practice. See example above.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by Conclusion]

[edit on 18-2-2010 by Conclusion]

reply to post by Nichiren

I'd like to thank everybody on this thread. It's been very interesting to ponder the original question and observe how people react to it.

Agreed.

The original title of this thread was Reasons To Believe. Wiki definition: Reason is a human mental faculty that is able to generate conclusions from assumptions or premises. The meaning of the word "reason" in this sense overlaps to a large extent with "rationality" and the adjective of "reason" in philosophical contexts is normally "rational", rather than "reasoned" or "reasonable". The concept of 'reason' is closely related to the concepts of language and logic, as reflected in the multiple meanings of the Greek word "logos", the root of logic, which translated into Latin became "ratio" and then in French "raison", from which the English word "reason" was derived. Reason is often contrasted with authority, intuition, emotion, mysticism, superstition, and faith, and is thought by rationalists to be more reliable than these in discovering what is true or what is best.

And this is the Dictionary.com definition:

rea⋅son   /ˈrizən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ree-zuhn] Show IPA –noun 1. a basis or cause, as for some belief, action, fact, event, etc.: the reason for declaring war. 2. a statement presented in justification or explanation of a belief or action. 3. the mental powers concerned with forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences. 4. sound judgment; good sense. 5. normal or sound powers of mind; sanity. 6. Logic. a premise of an argument. 7. Philosophy. a. the faculty or power of acquiring intellectual knowledge, either by direct understanding of first principles or by argument. b. the power of intelligent and dispassionate thought, or of conduct influenced by such thought. c. Kantianism. the faculty by which the ideas of pure reason are created. –verb (used without object) 8. to think or argue in a logical manner. 9. to form conclusions, judgments, or inferences from facts or premises. 10. to urge reasons which should determine belief or action. –verb (used with object) 11. to think through logically, as a problem (often fol. by out). 12. to conclude or infer. 13. to convince, persuade, etc., by reasoning. 14. to support with reasons. —Idioms 15. bring (someone) to reason, to induce a change of opinion in (someone) through presentation of arguments; convince: The mother tried to bring her rebellious daughter to reason. 16. by reason of, on account of; because of: He was consulted about the problem by reason of his long experience. 17. in or within reason, in accord with reason; justifiable; proper: She tried to keep her demands in reason. 18. stand to reason, to be clear, obvious, or logical: With such an upbringing it stands to reason that the child will be spoiled. 19. with reason, with justification; properly: The government is concerned about the latest crisis, and with reason.

Everything I've read so far is based on circular logic (i.e. "because the bible/Jesus says so"), superstition, fear of the unknown (death), fear of life without a higher (devine) purpose and flat out rejection of science, Darwinism in particular.

From the same source here is logic:

log⋅ic   /ˈlɒdʒɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [loj-ik] Show IPA –noun 1. the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference. 2. a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic. 3. the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study. 4. reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move. 5. convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts. 6. Computers. logic circuit.

Have you ever had a, what you would call, religious experience?

There are no reasons to believe in any religion! It's a trick question. All religions are based on faith, which is not a logical reason. I challenge anybody to defend a religion without resorting to faith and circular logic. I don't think it can be done.

Again same question.

I posit that the question is an oxymoron. It's entirely possible that I missed a logical argument for a religion. I would like for you to point that out to me.

--Inhales----Exhales---same question.

Thank you,

Your welcome.

reply to post by Nichiren

"God" makes this existence work by telling doctors to wash their hands before delivering a baby, so the germs won't infect and kill. Oh wait, it was a Hungarian scientist who discovered it Why is science and its explanation of evolution so bad? I really don't get it.

It clearly states in the old testament about doing that. I will try to find it and post it. So science didn't come up with it. lol

Instead of putting your head in the sand, you study and observe nature and its laws. So that you can save lives with the knowledge how things WORK. See example above.

Again the question. What does it do for you when you die?

You preserve knowledge (books, data-files, etc.) so that the next generation will know MORE. You can also tell your fellow MDs that antiseptics is good practice. See example above.

Yeah in books. Hey the Bible is a book. Hmmm. Oh only if you believe the book you read does it help you.

reply to post by Nichiren

Why is science and its explanation of evolution so bad? I really don't get it.

Evolution isn't bad. I will never say that it is. To many facts around it.
It can be bad for those who are trying to replace God with it. That isn't just bad. It's sick and beyond illogical because no one can with certainty
can claim God does not Exist. You would have to be a God to make that claim and have others believe it . How would that work?



[edit on 18-2-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Nichiren

 

Feelings do yours ever get hurt? Do have them ? Where are they?
Can you see them. Disect them. They are irrational and ilogical.
I guess the don't exist. No reason.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by randyvs]

Randy,

Do you really want to start a discussion about Neuroscience with me? I think you are not ready for it.

I say this with confidence because all your questions have been addressed and partially answered. Patients with brain injuries have been studied for many decades and amazing discoveries have been made.

If I'm wrong, please tell me what was the last book, peer reviewed paper or draft you read about that subject.

Originally posted by Nichiren

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Nichiren

 

Feelings do yours ever get hurt? Do have them ? Where are they?
Can you see them. Disect them. They are irrational and ilogical.
I guess the don't exist. No reason.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by randyvs]

Randy,

Do you really want to start a discussion about Neuroscience with me? I think you are not ready for it.

I say this with confidence because all your questions have been addressed and partially answered. Patients with brain injuries have been studied for many decades and amazing discoveries have been made.

If I'm wrong, please tell me what was the last book, peer reviewed paper or draft you read about that subject.

Oh there's that phrase peer reviewed. lol. Does that mean the words are so confusing to the layman, that only the one's who understand the meaning of the words can understand it? lol
Well same goes for the Bible then.

reply to post by Nichiren

I say this with confidence because all your questions have been addressed and partially answered. Patients with brain injuries have been studied for many decades and amazing discoveries have been made

How can someone as smart as you get so lost? You just about proved
every bit of what I was getting at. I wouldn't ever engage anyone in
neuroscience, rocket science, astrophysics, or theories on the hoola hoop for that matter.
For you to think I could only be talking about nerve endings is a true
testimonial to what I believe about you.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by Conclusion


Religious experience? You mean one of these?

cas.bellarmine.edu...

www.bbc.co.uk...

BTW: I'm still waiting to hear a logical REASON for religion

reply to post by randyvs


Out of your shallow waters

Nevertheless, I'd be thrilled to hear what you think about me. Randy, let it rip

reply to post by Nichiren

BTW: I'm still waiting to hear a logical REASON for religion

BTW no you're not. you're not ever going to hear or see one. That's your choice. Even a laymen can see that .
I don't remember mentioning anything about what I think about you.
I did refer to what I believe about you.
As far as what I think about you?
That's something, I don't think you're ready for.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by Nichiren
reply to post by Conclusion

 

Religious experience? You mean one of these?

cas.bellarmine.edu...

www.bbc.co.uk...

BTW: I'm still waiting to hear a logical REASON for religion

How ever the experience happened. Have you had one?

There is no logical reason for religion, because the word religion has clumped together all faiths as the same thing when they are not the same thing.

Now if you are asking if there are logical reasoning behind Christianity then yes. From those who witnessed Christ. The things Christ says are wonderful. What he says is known to be true in my mind, body, and soul. So by reasoning that, within myself, I have found all the evidence I need.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by Conclusion]

Originally posted by Nichiren
reply to post by randyvs

 

Out of your shallow waters

Nevertheless, I'd be thrilled to hear what you think about me. Randy, let it rip

I do not know about Randy, but I think you are big on knowledge, but not so big on Wisdom.

Well Nichiren either got mad a left, or he had to do something and didn't have the courtesy to say good bye. lol. Awww. I liked talking to him.

"God" makes this existence work by telling doctors to wash their hands before delivering a baby, so the germs won't infect and kill. Oh wait, it was a Hungarian scientist who discovered it

reply to post by Nichiren


BTW you stepped in shizzle on this one.
It would appear you arn't so knowledgeable, the Bible was telling people to wash their hands and bodies long before any mad scientist took credit for it. Get a grip. Cleanliness is next to Godliness.
Conclusion nailed it. On the Low rung of wisdom.

Conclusion
Ya! Me too. He 'll be back with reinforcement's.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by randyvs


Grandstanding and assumptions. Again, Randy, let it rip

reply to post by Nichiren


Whatever do you mean? Let it rip ? Why wha ?