Rape? It's the fault of the victims, say 50 per cent of women

Well if you walk home after a night out wearing a skirt up to your ass and your tits hanging out and decide to take a shortcut down a dark alley, your just asking for it!

Originally posted by LadySkadi
reply to post by sos37

 

* teasing someone
* using sexually-explicit body language
* encouraging sexual advances toward her

Who decides what those are? Her? Him? Those watching from the sidelines?

All the excuses and/or concessions mean nothing when at the moment of "no" things don't stop.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by LadySkadi]

So, what now - you're saying women aren't smart enough to know when they are teasing, using sexually explicit body language or encouraging sexual advances? You honestly think some women do those things and DON'T KNOW they are doing it???

Originally posted by sos37

Originally posted by LadySkadi
reply to post by sos37

 

* teasing someone
* using sexually-explicit body language
* encouraging sexual advances toward her

Who decides what those are? Her? Him? Those watching from the sidelines?

All the excuses and/or concessions mean nothing when at the moment of "no" things don't stop.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by LadySkadi]

So, what now - you're saying women aren't smart enough to know when they are teasing, using sexually explicit body language or encouraging sexual advances? You honestly think some women do those things and DON'T KNOW they are doing it???

EVEN IF a woman does all those things, if she says 'NO!' and tries to get away from you or shows fear, and you proceed, it is rape. What country do you live in that you think it is any other way?

Originally posted by novacs4me
reply to post by sos37

 

No, you are wrong. When a woman says 'No', in no uncertain terms, and you proceed, it is rape! Why is that so hard to understand? No one DESERVES to be raped. Period.

I agree that it's still rape, but I DISAGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY with anyone who says the woman NEVER shares any part of the blame for what happened.

Yes, the majority of the time it's just a man acting on his need for a power trip. But are there other times when a woman's actions speak loud and clear? In those cases should not she be held responsible? I say YES!

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
If you as a man willingly put your member in a woman who is NOT SOBER, and the next morning she leaves, goes to the police and files RAPE charges against you, guess what?

YOU RAPED A WOMAN.

If sober consent cannot be given, and you as a man go ahead, YOU ARE A RAPIST.

There is no excuse.

It boils down to responsibility for your own actions. The only ACTION the female is responsible for is GETTING DRUNK not GETTING RAPED.

First of all...I do agree with you that any man is stupid to have sex with a drunk female because she can very easily claim rape.

However, what do you make of the situation where both male and female are drunk? According to your logic...the female is not responsible for her actions becasue she is drunk...but it appears that you want men to be responsible for their actions while they are drunk. That is a double standard and not fair.

You say "The only ACTION the female is responsible for is GETTING DRUNK not GETTING RAPED."...so wouldn't the only action the male is responsible for is getting drunk...not raping the female??? And do you extend this to drunk drivers...if they kill someone...then it isn't their fault...they are only responsible for getting drunk...not what they do afterward?

Because that is what you are claiming for women who have sex with a total stranger when they are drunk. You seem to think it is perfectly acceptable for females to have no responsibility for their actions AFTER they decide to get drunk. They can even claim rape...regardless if there was forced used or even if she was actually the initiator. I would bet you would say she was raped even if it was caught on camera...her being drunk out of her mind and tearing the guys clothes off, hopping on top and having sex with him. Then the next morning she realizes she doesn't know this guy...it must be rape...right?


Like I said before...I agree in a way that if you are a guy and you have sex with a drunk girl...you are opening yourself up to be accused of rape. So any smart guy should stay away from drunk girls. But I also thing you are having a huge double standard and giving excuses for women who get drunk and make a bad decision.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by OutKast Searcher]

reply to post by Dock9


Sorry, I guess I didn't explain myself enough.

I don't think woman should be at all at blame for when they are raped, in the circumstances where they are forcefully taken and made to have sex.

I believe the circumstance I illustrated is different in some regard, where the woman can take some responsibility for her own actions.

You will notice though, I don't think what my friend did was wise. I explained that you shouldn't put yourself in a position to have sex with someone who's drunk ever, to avoid that situation.

NO MEANS NO, PERIOD !!!

Now, I know that there are those women who make a bad decision and then regret it afterwords, crying "rape". Thats now what I'm talking about.

NO means no. I'm not willing to do what you want to do.
NO means no. I don't want you to touch me.
NO means no. You are to stop immediately.

NO MEANS NO !

Period, bottom line, the end. If a woman, or man for that matter, says no, then they're not to be touched. It's rape and it's wrong.

A man who would do this to a woman is the lowest scum of the earth and I hope the all some day experience the fear and pain that they've inflicted on their victims.

reply to post by sos37
I think there are times when each person thinks something very different is happening. From personal experience, I will say without doubt, that my actions were taken totally out of context and believed to be something they were not.... because that is what someone else WANTED to believe.

Does this always happen? Of course not. Do not forget, that I did state in the very beginning that women must be aware of themselves and their surroundings. I am simply pointing out that two (or more) very different interpretations of an action can and will happen all the the time.

And again, all the excuses and/or concessions mean nothing when at the moment of "no" things don't stop.



[edit on 15-2-2010 by LadySkadi]

Originally posted by sos37


Yes, the majority of the time it's just a man acting on his need for a power trip. But are there other times when a woman's actions speak loud and clear? In those cases should not she be held responsible? I say YES!

Your sister gets dressed up and goes to a Britney Spears concert , and

gets Raped.

You tell her it was her fault.

Originally posted by novacs4me

Originally posted by sos37

Originally posted by LadySkadi
reply to post by sos37

 

* teasing someone
* using sexually-explicit body language
* encouraging sexual advances toward her

Who decides what those are? Her? Him? Those watching from the sidelines?

All the excuses and/or concessions mean nothing when at the moment of "no" things don't stop.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by LadySkadi]

So, what now - you're saying women aren't smart enough to know when they are teasing, using sexually explicit body language or encouraging sexual advances? You honestly think some women do those things and DON'T KNOW they are doing it???

EVEN IF a woman does all those things, if she says 'NO!' and tries to get away from you or shows fear, and you proceed, it is rape. What country do you live in that you think it is any other way?

That's BS! It may still be rape, but the woman who did all of those things shares part of the blame for being raped because SHE PUT HERSELF IN THAT SITUATION TO BEGIN WITH! WTF is wrong with you that you cannot see this?

I think we need to establish two different types of cases, because discussions are flying over semantics.


1- Rape because a women has hot clothes, shows a sexually active and provocative position, making men losing control. and in that case, yes "No, means no" and men should respect that. Those are the kinds of rapes where they are labeled as "mistakes" and where a men should be a Men.

2- Rape because a women has hot clothes, shows a sexually active and provocative position, and announces herself to sexual predators.

People who actually are sick in their minds and only get pleasure from rape itself.

Originally posted by Sean48

Originally posted by sos37


Yes, the majority of the time it's just a man acting on his need for a power trip. But are there other times when a woman's actions speak loud and clear? In those cases should not she be held responsible? I say YES!

Your sister gets dressed up and goes to a Britney Spears concert , and

gets Raped.

You tell her it was her fault.

If she acted provocatively and/or sexually teased someone right to the point of actually doing it and then said "No" then YOU BET I would tell her that she shares part of the blame!

They must have been Muslim women because Muslim women can get killed for getting raped. I would love to hear someone justify that but there is no justice in that.

It's the Daily Mail.... so there ya go.


But out of the 1000 adults polled... it says 54% of women said the victim was to blame... how may of these "adults" polled were actually women?


This just seems like the usual Daily Mail bollocks....

reply to post by ProUSA


Take a look at Outcastsearcher's post

it's brilliant

we're getting some honest, realistic, adult responses here now, thank God

Hey, maybe we could place a little blame on society? In the world we grow up in, this age of consumerism ushers in a sense of "getting what we want, when we want." Unfortunately, in some cases it involves power and sexually hungry men (or women) who see something they "want" and force themselves upon them. This indeed is a sick act by the Rapist and there is no excuse.

But of course, women can be enticing. Women can dress in an exposing manner and be purposefully suggestive, only to get the man going inside. Often people lose control of their logic when hormones take over -men and women. But there is simply no excuse for lacking self control and committing such a terrible act. Can women be blamed partly for their own rape? That's a really tough question that I personally wouldn't want to answer, but I would suggest that it's not a smart idea for women to be suggestive and expect nothing to happen, or go walking in a sketchy area, and expect everything to go smoothly. Women and men need to educate themselves on these issues at hand.

Now when it comes to getting drunk, and then having sex, is that rape? I think that it is not. Unless one party is forcing the other party to drink to the point of drunkenness for the sole purpose of having intercourse, most people who drink are fully aware of their capacity to drink, and what sort of consequences may happen.

Oh, and why can't a man call it rape if he's drunk too? It's not a lie to say women want sex too. Yes, it's generally normal for it to be a man that puts on sexual pressure, but in no way are women always innocent when it comes to being drunk and having sex.

reply to post by blupblup


Did you read the entire article ? It mentions The Wake Up To Rape report and Whitechapel Haven, one of three Havens centres in London that help victims of sexual assault, was one of those who conducted the study.

Not sure if the breakdown between male and females polled was an even 50/50, although it would be possible to learn I guess, if you contacted them

So, what now - you're saying women aren't smart enough to know when they are teasing, using sexually explicit body language or encouraging sexual advances? You honestly think some women do those things and DON'T KNOW they are doing it???

reply to post by sos37

So, what now-- you're saying men aren't strong enough to ignore sexually inticing behaior from a drunk woman? You honestly think some men are so weak they have to just give in to their basic impulses?

Originally posted by LadySkadi
reply to post by sos37

 

I think it's situational. I think there are times when each think something very different is happening. From personal experience, I will say without doubt, that my actions were taken totally out of context and believed to be something they were not.... because that is what someone else WANTED to believe.

Does this always happen? Of course not. Do not forget, that I did state in the very beginning that women must be aware of themselves and their surroundings. I am simply pointing out that two (or more) very different interpretations of an action can and will happen all the the time.

And again, all the excuses and/or concessions mean nothing when at the moment of "no" things don't stop.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by LadySkadi]

So, hypothetically, let's take the what-if factor out of all this. Let's say you have a woman who gets herself all dressed up as provocatively as possible and openly admits she goes out and sexually teases guys to the point of actually going through with it and then says "No". Let's say she admits doing it because she gets some twisted pleasure out of doing it.

Does the "No" rule still apply? Or would it be fair to say "Some day she's going to get raped because she keeps putting herself in that situation"?

It is the prime example of misconceptions about rape.
And lets admit it, there are different levels of rape. There is the guy taking advantage of an intoxicated woman. There is age rape.

Regarding crime rape I will call it, where it is a perfect stranger snagging someone in a back alley. To think that is the victim's fault is just ludicrous. First off, it isn't about sex. It is about controlling someone. Pychologically damaging them. Abusers tend to rape their spouses a lot, to show who is in control, and constantly remind them. It doesn't matter how the woman dressed or what she was doing.

First off the problem with surveys is that they are just that: surveys. And they can be worded to lead people to have to answer a certain way, or to influence answers. They only sample a small population. So they always needed to be taken with a grain of salt.

If on the obscure chance that women think other women brought it on themselves. You have to think what the emotional reaction of the woman taking the survey is having.

It is hard to wrap your mind around that men can just have the ability to rape someone when they feel like it. It is a very helpless feelign even to just think about. It is also a very scary thought about society. Since the human mind can't handle random acts of violence, then it must be partially the female's fault and she brings it on herself a little. IN other words, the frightened mind is making up a reason. And the only constant in all these scenarios is that it is a female victim. Since we have so little information about the perps.

Since so few are reported, and most are by people the victim knows(stranger rape is far less common then others) there isn't a demographic we can be afraid of or be wary off. So the perp population remains faceless. And the blame has to be put somewhere.