Rape? It's the fault of the victims, say 50 per cent of women

reply to post by sos37


...and because she's dancing, having a good time, she's inviting some slime to rape her? Bull. She's had too much to drink? So? That's not permission from her to do anything to her other than order her a cab home.

She's done nothing to deserve being raped. Nothing.

Certainly no one deserves to be raped; but I can see how some people tend to attract unfortunate events to themselves, both Men and Women.

reply to post by sos37

Was she:
* teasing someone
* using sexually-explicit body language
* encouraging sexual advances toward her
If the above is true and such a woman is raped, you CANNOT say that the woman doesn't share any of the blame. You CANNOT give her a free pass for her actions when she encouraged such behavior.

No.
Such behaviour might be mistaken for an invitation to have sex. If you take up the "offer" and do not back down after realising your mistake (e.g. she's trying to get away from you), you are committing rape. No excuses.

If you choose to drink more than you should, and put yourself in a situation with some unsavory characters, the rape would never had happened if you had made better choices. So. SOME fault lies with the raped.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by Blender]

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by sos37

 

IN the court of law, it doesn't matter how much I taunt, yell, encourage, dare, bribe, insinuate, that someone hit me. If I have not touched the person physically, they will be charged with assault if they hit me first. Period.

While it is true that you may be charged with assault...it doesn't mean you are GUILTY of assualt. You can plead self-defense and if the jury believes you were in immediate danger and your actions of hitting first protected yourself...then you will be innocent. If you are acting in a way where it is apparent that you are intending to do harm to me, even if in your mind you never plan on following through, I can still pro-actively defend myself. I can't beat you bloody and continue to beat you...but I can "hit" you in order to get out of the situation.

Being CHARGED with something doesn't mean you are GUILTY of anything. Police don't decide right or wrong...they don't decide guilty or innocent...they just place the correct charge against the accused. The problem with the "rape" charge is that it is automatically assumed the accused is guilty. It is one of the rare, and unfair, cases where you are guility until you can prove you are innocent.

If you chose to drink more than you should, and put yourself in a situation with some unsavory characters, the rape would never had happened if you had made better choices. So. SOME fault lies with the raped.

reply to post by Blender


Not fault. The fault goes 100% to the rapist.

Just because you do stupid things like this doesn't mean someone is allowed to rape you.

Now, should women think twice before finding themselves in these situations? Absolutely. Without a doubt. We are in agreement there.

But stupidity doesn't give someone the right to hurt you.

That's like saying it's all your fault if you accidentaly pull out too much money in front of me and I decide to rob you for it. Not your fault.

reply to post by yeahright


You continue preaching

yet I have already posted that I am female and I have been raped

It was a brutal rape. It was definitely of the SAID NO variety. I came home from work, turned the key to my apartment. The door was pulled from my grasp. It was pitch black. The shock was total. My mind couldn't grasp what had happened. It was terrifying. I had no preparation. Tried to escape. Was being hit hard. Later I learned my nose had been broken. The rapist tried to strangle and beat me into silence. He was very strong. Naked and covered in sweat. I went unconscious during part of the attack. He had a knife

Later, it was discovered I had deep lacerations all over my back from trying to inch and fight my way across jagged tiles out from under and away from the attacker. I had thrombosis in my thighs. Few days later they were mottled black, I'd fought so hard

So don't lecture me, thank you

because I'm fully aware of what constitutes rape

I'm guessing people will not want to read this post, because it will deprive them of the moral high-road they've been riding in this thread

Do you THINK I do not know what actual rape is like ?

And .. because I DO know what actual rape is like, with all the ramifications ... I am STILL able to differentiate between an 'I said NO' type rape and the claims of rape which are made by idiot women who put themselves in harm's way and believe 'someone else' must, must shoulder full responsibility for their actions

That's an insane attitude, it's immature, it's unreasonable, it's unfair, it's dishonest

reply to post by tallcool1


I think people are getting confused in this discussion. I haven't seen anyone say it is OK for someone to rape a female.

I have seen a lot of people say that females need to be responsible to not put themselves in a bad situation.

I am also seeing some people claim that a women can never have any fault if she is raped...including if she gets drunk and wakes up with a stranger.

Like I said...no means no...but being drunk doesn't give you an excuse to not be responsible for your actions.

Having read the article and most of the responses, I can't help but ask.
Can someone explain to me how it is my daughters fault for being born female?
She has never drank and does not smoke even cigarettes. She has never dressed in a provocative manner.
The man who raped, beat her and set her house on fire, said "he just looked for a house with a woman at home."
How can anyone say this was her fault for being female. ANY crime is the FAULT of those who commit them!!

End of story!!!

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I have understood and applauded all your posts

You articulate extremely well

You go to great lengths to explain and explain again

Yours are not difficult posts to understand, nor are your arguments

Some people want to prattle on and on about 'saying no'

Either they have very low intelligence, or they feel that by pretending not to understand you, they're conforming with what they consider to be the thread 'majority'

I believe what you say and believe you mean it

You are clearly intelligent, decent and not defending rapists in any sense


You are head and shoulders above the Johnny One Notes who're pretending repeatedly to misinterpret what you are saying

I applaud your integrity, honesty and intelligence

Thank you for your many valuable contributions

Just to touch on one thing. I noticed many are debating why people rape. Power vs Lust

Having intervied hundreds of accused rapists, and many ACTUAL rapists, the percentage is about 75% power and 25% lust. The 75% of convicted rapists told me that they just enjoyed the domination of it all with alittle pleasure mixed in. That is why they have sex with them rather than just beat the crap out of them. Also, you will find that a vast majority of those who rape their friends, do so because that said friend denied anything past friendship...so the scum do it because their upset.

As for the 25%, they told me that it was simply her looks, BUT tied to that usually came this: "A girl like her would never give me the time of day" - meaning if I don't force her I could never experiance her. OR the preverbial, "she was asking for it, she was checking me, and she was leading me on".

It tends to be an interesting interview with these guys who do this stuff. And yes i worked 1 case where a man was raped....and that was psychological warfare at its best.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Perhaps no one has outright said that it is Ok to rape - but it seems to me that I am seeing a lot of posts excusing rape because a woman was drunk or flirty or at the wrong place.

While I would agree that the behavior displayed by some women is unwise and may lead to them getting raped by a worthless excuse of a pathetic and spineless man - it is NEVER their fault.

And yes, there are false rape claims by women for a variety of reasons and I am not referring to them. Those women should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But this thread is not about that...

reply to post by hdutton


Oh for Pete's sake !

Did you not bother to read the linked article ?

If you did, you would realise that this has very little to do with genuine rapes, the 'say no' rapes --- and is primarily about women who put themselves in harm's way and about their being held accountable by 50% of women polled in the UK, where drunken, sluttish behaviour has become a serious social problem

Does that apply to your daughter ?

No. And you know it

reply to post by tallcool1


Nobody is saying that after the act is done, the women has any blame or responsibility.

What people are saying, is that it's possible to prevent it, and those cases, women should be more careful.


Again, nobody here is supporting rapists.

We are all sons of mothers, fathers of daughters, brothers of sisters, here.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
That's like saying it's all your fault if you accidentaly pull out too much money in front of me and I decide to rob you for it. Not your fault.

I disagree.

Let's say there are two men walking down the street. Another man is walking toward them planning on robbing one of them...hasn't decided which yet. One of the potential victims pulls out a wad of cash and starts counting it, the other guy takes notice of the man walking towards him and he takes his hands out of his pockets ready to defend himself. The man counting his money gets robbed.

Did his actions contribute to him being robbed? Yes.

Is he responsible for making a stupid decision? Yes.

Does some of the fault lie on his shoulders that he was robbed instead of the other man? Yes.

You can't argue that it isn't partially his fault. His actions directly caused him to be singled out as a target. The other man who made a better decision protected him.

reply to post by yeahright


You didn't bother reading Outkast's brilliant post, did you

even though I posted it twice in addition to Outkast's original


Are you being deliberately obtuse ?

If so, why ?


Did YOU bother to read the linked article ?


Did you see WHY 50% of women polled held alleged rape victims at least partially responsible for their experience ?

No ? Didn't read it ? Didn't conform with your closed mind-set ?


You KNOW that there are a VARIETY of 'rapes' under discussion here, primarily because the majority of posters WANT to portray ALL women as victims who should not be held accountable

Do yourself a favour, please

go read the excerpts from Outkast's post, which I have posted twice

or better still, scroll back and read the original


It completely demolishes your professed stance on this matter

reply to post by Tifozi


While I do agree with your statement that there are plenty of things that a woman can do to prevent a rape, if you go back through this thread that I was responding to, there are plenty of people who seem to be implying that if a woman is not being careful or dresses slutty or gets too drunk then it is in some way her fault for getting raped.

Yes - it does happen. I agree.

NO it is NOT her fault. That is what I am responding to is the people here who seem to imply that a woman is at fault in any way.

Many years ago I was dating this
girl who was raped. I was not
in town at the time and yes, I
started to wonder if it actually
happened.

After we both started going to
counselling I learned a very
important fact that I had not
known at the time. Rape, except
in very few cases os not about
sex but about control.

That is why you hear about 80
year old women getting raped.
It does not matter how someone
is dressed, how much they drank,
or how flirtacious someone is.
When a woman says "no" stop
what you are doing and it is
that simple.

Originally posted by Blender
If you choose to drink more than you should, and put yourself in a situation with some unsavory characters, the rape would never had happened if you had made better choices. So. SOME fault lies with the raped.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by Blender]

A lot of times drinks are spiked when the other person is not looking. I learned a long time ago never to let drinks just sit around because some people will even do that to males. My mother had one drink at a bar with her friends and came back to her drink after dancing and 15-20 minutes later she could not stand. I am thankful that her friend owned the place and called me to come help her. I had to call the paramedics which took her to the hospital because someone had put a high dose of GHB in her one drink. That goes on a lot.



[edit on 15/2/10 by toochaos4u]