Rape? It's the fault of the victims, say 50 per cent of women

I can't say I exactly agree with the sentiment of these women, but I can understand it. I know several women who have in fact been raped, and every one of them was under the influence of either drugs or alcohol at the time, while being around people of questionable ethics. I can't say that its their fault, but at the same time, in one case that comes to mind, if youre a beautiful woman who also happens to weigh a whole 100lbs and you get wasted at a big party where you only know a few people....what exactly do you EXPECT to happen? You might as well run into traffic and then blame someone for hitting you. Its still horrible that it happens, but you can't be an idiot and expect no consequences, either.

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by riley

 

I appreciate everything you've written here, as I'm sure do all who'll read it

It's a very complex and emotion-arousing issue, isn't it ? Which is why the poll results (50% of women blame female rape victims) are worthy of discussion and analysis

We could also add to what you've said by including the mature-aged Australian woman who was drugged and raped on a cruise. The rapists stuck together and denied all charges for a long time, claiming the victim had been willing.

So they not only stole her dignity and rights (and consciousness !) when she was alive -- they defamed her when she was dead and unable to defend herself.

Imagine being the husband and child of that poor woman, trying to cope with her death --unable to even bury her with dignity but being instead compelled to wait until the coroner had concluded examination -- and having to listen to and see the lurid headlines where she was accused by several men of being a willing party to drunken sex with all of them

That really was a shameful case. P&O have alot to answer for. At least women are now aware of what kind of danger they could be in if they go on one of their cruises.
www.cruisebruise.com...
Nothing about her made me think she was into orgies or drugs.. yet they still tried to put that spin on it. The more I heared about them the more I wondered just how many victims they left in their wake. I believe these kind of gang rapes are organised and planned. Sick world we live in.

That is an interesting statistic as one would think women would be more willing to side with women on this issue. Could it be that this 50% surveyed have a better understanding of men and their nature than the other 50%? Real rape is wrong and the vast majority of men understand that they have no right to force sexual intercourse on or force sexual favours from another person.

As others have stated however, the definition is getting broader with each year that goes by. Sexual assault is being used interchangeably with rape and it is being reported in the media as being the same thing. It will reach a point where stroking the hair of your loved one while they sleep is considered unwanted sexual contact. Which will be likened to sexual assault, which will be likened to rape.

Playing the blame game is pointless and will not stop the occurrence of rape. Men have a responsibility to pressure their male friends to show respect and dignity for women at all times. We need to educate youngsters and teenagers that while men are usually physical stronger than women, they must not use this to exploit or take advantage of women.

The other half of education is towards women. Whether you want to admit it or not, there will be bad people anywhere that are willing to take advantage of you if the opportunity arises. Opportunism is the major cause of rape. Women need to be educated that they can take easy steps to reduce the risk of landing themselves in a vulnerable position that leads to rape. This will not completely stop rape, but it will substantially decrease the prevalence of this negative behaviour.

The Feminist Lobby making websites which feature women in their underwear, pointing at their bodies and saying "This does not mean you can rape me!" does NOT help the situation. Encouraging women to express their sexual freedom by dressing in clothes that bring them extra attention from men does NOT help decrease rape. Ingraining the idea into women that they are "untouchable" will not decrease rape.

I have said it before and I'll say it again: both men and women can dress in stylish, fashionable clothes (even in hot weather) showing modesty.

[edit on 15/2/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Yours is a remarkable post, very insightful

I agree with much of what you say

Seems every second woman agrees, also

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Rape is definitely never the fault of the victim but ...

Learning street awareness, situational awareness, common sense and even learning to listen to one’s own sixth sense is something all women and men should actively develop as a helpful deterent against all forms of violent crimes.

An ounce of prevention is after all worth a pound of cure.

I agree with your statements ProtoplasmicTraveler. ...When I think about where I've been, and walked, and the strangers I have talked to from Jamaica to Montreal to New York and LA,, I know I could have been raped, even killed, hundreds of times. Didn't happen though. For example:

1. - A man once held a 10-inch butcher knife at my throat for about 3 hours while we talked. In the end, he threw up his hands, called me a "lamb" and let me go.
2. - In the middle of the bussing riots in Boston, I sat in the black section at the back of the bus (I'm white) then got off at a deserted part of the arboretum - 2 angry black guys got off with me, and frankly, it was a threatening situation. But we talked, and parted "friends." (I did tell them I was Canadian. Often a trump card. )

...I have the "skills" you talk about, and a weird blend of strength, respect and innocence. But I'm also incredibly lucky and I think that's what's always saved me...

That said...

Few rapes occur when a "nice guy" loses control. Rape is about control, not sex - certain predators need to rape to get off. They NEED the fear, they need to know that they are imposing their will on someone weaker. That's what it's all about - not sexual need.

So - dealing with nice, decent guys and full-out predators are 2 different things. ...and most women are not able to recognize real predators, never mind handle them.

Education - "learning street awareness, situational awareness, common sense and even learning to listen to one’s own sixth sense" - all help.

So does isolating oneself in one's sewing room, and avoiding the real world.

Which I suspect is why so many women blame rape victims for being victimized - because those victims had the temerity to try to live. It's an envy thing.

- sofi

Originally posted by deadline527

Sadly too many women lie about rape for whatever reason, and your idea of justice would cause many innocent people to be in danger. Just think, if vigilante justice was allowed for rapists, all the lady would have to do if she wanted someone gone is say they raped her. Well. They do that anyway, but vigilantism would not make the situation any better

Which is a very real situation as is the waited 2-4 years as pointed out by another poster. I have dealt with several rape victims. One was assaulted so badly that it looked as though she had been stabbed multiple times with a chef's knife by the amount of blood pouring out of her.

Her rapist was one that had raped another woman two years prior, was expelled and permitted to return to the university as a student again. the officer on duty informed me that he was being picked up as we spoke. I told him to inform the judge to deny bail, because there wold be know trial.

Heck we just had one last week where a guy broke in to a girl's apartment and raped her in the shower. Cut her with her own razor.

But yeah, there are some women that do lie about it for the attention, sympathy, revenge against a guy...but what is good for the gander is good for the goose in those cases.

Yes, I was brought up to never hit a girl, but as time has gone on I find that I have no problem punching a b**** right in the face if deserving, just like any other guy.

Originally posted by saturnine_sweet
I can't say I exactly agree with the sentiment of these women, but I can understand it. I know several women who have in fact been raped, and every one of them was under the influence of either drugs or alcohol at the time, while being around people of questionable ethics. I can't say that its their fault, but at the same time, in one case that comes to mind, if youre a beautiful woman who also happens to weigh a whole 100lbs and you get wasted at a big party where you only know a few people....what exactly do you EXPECT to happen? You might as well run into traffic and then blame someone for hitting you. Its still horrible that it happens, but you can't be an idiot and expect no consequences, either.

An honest post and true, imo

We have the 'right' to wander into seedy areas of town. But we seldom do, because we're aware of the inherent dangers

We have the right to go sky-diving or go swimming with sharks. But again, we seldom do because of the risks involved

Certainly, women have the right to drink all night if they wish and to accept a lift with one or more men at the bar. But as with all other risky pursuits, there are dangers involved

reply to post by riley


Hey , Woman say men do it for the Power , Its for the Power says the so called experts , Men dont Rape woman to feel empowered , lol, Alot of em say cause woman are powerful , talk about a great big lie ! They just want to dumb you into wearing mini skirts and all dat jazz, I tend ta think men who rape do it cause they want sexual intercoarse , and they wannna get some, the easy way , nuttin to do with POWER , lol , What power can a rapist download by Raping a woman , its non sense , these rapist want easy sex ! Oh yeah , i remember you

This confirms to me that 54% of British women are idiots.

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by MarlboroRedCowgirl

 

So you don't believe a woman's behaviour or dress is partially responsible, in terms of the message she may be perceived as sending out ?

Thats just stupid...Just because you dress in camo doesn't mean you are wanting to get shot at now, does it?

Originally posted by Koolcdj69
I am not saying the blame is on women, but when or if women dress in like a manner that would interest a crazy lunatic guy, it gets him which can be in a way a women's fault, knowing what they are wearing or exposing of themselves may suade a crazy guy into doing something.

hi all.

I once read an article about a child sexer, who was in prison, telling that as many many parents dress their girls in provocative dress, that some of the blame sits, in this case, on the parents.

I also read of the lament of the 60 year old woman who could NOT find a dress that made her to look like a prostitute! She wrote that there would be a huge market for "sensible" clothes for middle aged women!

freestone

Just to clear something up for some.

men get raped as well and with more frequency than is thought.
It's not just women who are getting raped.

Also, despite peoples perspectives on it, it is never the fault of the victim.

Rape is a crime whereby an individual makes a decision to bring harm to another by imposing their want and desire upon taht person.

also, by blaming the victim, it minimizes the inability for men to actually control themselves and to behave properly as if to say this is natural in men.

well it isn't. We all can revert to animals if we choose to. That is when we are broken. Unhuman. Inhuman. take your pick.

there is NO justification for bringing harm to another in this context.

Yup this is the time we live in folks, just when they think well we can deal with some of it, # like this comes out, why would someone even create propaganda like this?

In my life i have stopped TWO rapes, Both when i was in high school, one was after hours in a back hallway while i was on the school hockey team, and one at a party at 3 A.M and only to be told years later that just by showing up i had stopped it, and i never knew until i was approached years later by the women and the pretty much jumped and hugged me when they saw me saying thank you so much , and i was like for what? I hadn't even realized what i had done, for all i did was show up and say hey whats going on how are ya?

Women think that others that take risk, dress, or dance a certain way deserve what they get, but its not so, dressing dancing or doing what ever you feel does not mean that others can impose their will against you. It is simply a choice to be who you feel you are.

But this does have grave implications as a reflection of our societies, of how we attack or turn on each other when in fact we need each other the most.

Lot of myths floating around here.

What is this crap about "stranger rape". Most women are not raped wearing mini-skirts and walking down dark alleys. Most women are raped by someone they know. Most rapists are not seedy, unnamed men. Most rapists are intelligent, successful people. What feeds this crap is a sense of entitlement. Some people feel entitled to anything, be it your attention or even your body. Do people get raped by strangers? Of course, but it's not the norm. That's one thing that needs to be said here and now. This talk of people "protecting" themselves is all well and good, but if we are talking about someone you trust, you are not likely to take precautions.

As for most rape claims being false, there is no good data on the trend. A few high profile cases does not a trend reveal. According to most agencies rape is under reported. Considering most people know their rapist I tend to think it's a mixture of shame and worry about upsetting their social order. Unfortunately most of the people looking into are either trying to prove or disprove that rape is widespread. If you go into a study attempting to prove anything your results will be skewed in the direction you want it to go.

On You Tube somewhere is a video of a 40-something female, almost falling-down drunk in a dingy bar

She was all over the men, who were laughing at her. You could even hear some in the video expressing embarrassment for her, saying things such as 'Oh gee, that's bad. This old lady is looking so sad '

After several minutes of basically showing off (because all the alcohol had killed whatever inhibitions she may normally have had), she tried to pole dance, ended up on the floor, at which point she commenced a series of lewd, disgusting 'splits' type movements, licking herself and fondling herself obscenely. She was blatantly inviting sexual intercourse and obviously believed she was driving the male onlookers wild

She wasn't inviting rape ? I think if you saw that video, you'd alter your opinion. She was begging for sex ... with anyone

Women aren't 'untouchable' as other posters have already said

If they have no respect for themselves, why would they expect anyone else to respect them ?

If they blatantly set out to arouse sexual interest, do they have to cry 'rape' when they sober up in the gutter ?

[edit on 15-2-2010 by Dock9]

reply to post by Dock9


I think it's more likely Ms. Drunk Chick would probably not even remember what she did the night before. Hence no rape allegations.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost


The Feminist Lobby making websites which feature women in their underwear, pointing at their bodies and saying "This does not mean you can rape me!" does NOT help the situation. Encouraging women to express their sexual freedom by dressing in clothes that bring them extra attention from men does NOT help decrease rape. Ingraining the idea into women that they are "untouchable" will not decrease rape.


[edit on 15/2/2010 by Dark Ghost]

So, in essence, you are saying MEN are the problem.

Women need to MODIFY their style, because we all KNOW MEN cannot control their lustful beastly urges.

Women need to CONFORM to a MODEST style, because MEN are vicious animals who have no control over their urges when faced with female flesh.

Should women dress in BURQUAS? I am ASSuming there is no rape in countries where women are forced by culture to wear MODEST clothing (burqua)?

Since you posit this theory, can you show some statistics which state modestly dressed women do not get raped?



[edit on 15-2-2010 by hotbakedtater]

While I do agree that women need to take responsibility for their own safety, rape is never a woman's fault and I am not talking about the drunk woman who is hanging all over every guy at the bar or at the party that p she should have either (a) stayed away from the alcohol or (b) had a friend watch out for her. I am talking about common sense stuff, locking your doors, avoid being friendly with those that appear to be suspicious, try to walk in groups when you can, etc. But what about those women that are not safe period, I am talking about women being attacked by millitias or the Islamic woman for converting to christianity or going to school. Are they at fault? From reading to article, 50% of women in UK are looking at only one side of the issue, women that lose control, not the one side where women are truly in danger.

It's a well know fact among sex therapists that many women feel at fault for their rape, and this is part of the damage that rape does to someone. Usually the younger the victim, the more they are apt to feel that way.

It's unfortunate that half of 1000 adults would feel it's the woman's fault.

That doesn't make it true.

Rape is wrong, No means No.

Looks like the Muslims are right. All women should wear burkas. Would that be "modestly" dressed enough for you guys? Damn, I guess it shouldn't be surprising but even in this day and age there are still people who blame the victims instead of the deviant predator. These kinds of attacks are psychological - these attacks are done by men who have deep rooted emotional issues against women. Maybe it's just my crazy belief in freedom that I believe a woman should be able to dress anyway she wants and not have to worry about some metal case "teaching her a lesson" by raping her. Where does that logic even begin or end? Hey, I broke into that store because it put its products in the window. It's not really my fault, that store was asking to be robbed. In the end it's all about "control." Men want to control women and when women don't listen to us brilliant men then those women have to pay a price. stupid stupid stupid.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by zerotime]