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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Originally posted by PaganArchangel
If males were not fixated on sex then there wouldn't be a multi - billion dollar industry catering to it.
There are those here who wish to deny their nature when it can be seen in jails everywhere...for heaven's sake it isn't the females who are acting like this..
No one said men aren't fixated on sex. We are in fact fixated on sex...and there is nothing wrong with that when it is fixated in a healthy and controlled manner.
Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Sorry riley, but you have your head very deep in the sand on this issue. I am not going to keep repeating the same information when you continue to ignore and create Straw Man arguments in response every time I do.
An example for those fixated on making this a classic "Men mistreating women" thread:
If a homosexual man goes to a Gay Bar dressed scantily, flirts and drinks with other men there, goes home with somebody...you know where this leads to. Did he deserve to be raped? NO. Did his attire say "please rape me" NO. But his decision to put himself in that situation and make himself vulnerable heightened the risk substantially. Had he taken better precautions beforehand, he could have had a much better chance of avoiding this negative experience.
It seems many more of these types of rape are being reported as opposed to the "stranger in the bushes" number of cases. They both exist, but obviously the one can be avoided much more easily than the other.
So it is "healthy" for men to watch (often female degrading) porn and want sex
but it is not healthy for women to express their sexuality by wearing a flirty dress?
Wanting to look attractive is very healthy yet you accuse women of "dressing like whores"
yet you think men being fixated on sex is fine and healthy. Double standards.. if men were NOT taught to be so fixated on sex there might be less rapes.
Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by riley
Oh Riley...when will you stop taking my words out of context and saying I said things that I didn't???
So it is "healthy" for men to watch (often female degrading) porn and want sex
Did I mention anything about porn? I said men are fixated on sex...and it is true because biologically we are set up that way...it's called testosterone. And yes...I think some porn is very degrading to women...but then again...no one is forcing those women to participate in making that porn. Yes...I know that if men wouldn't watch it, then there wouldn't be a market and no demand and blah blah blah. But still...are you going to place any RESPONSIBILITY on the women who decide to be porn stars? Or are they victims too?
but it is not healthy for women to express their sexuality by wearing a flirty dress?
I didn't know women had a biological need to express their sexuality.
And I thought you had said earlier that you and other women don't dress attractive for men...that you do it for yourself. But if you are expressing your sexuality in your dress...then you are in fact doing for the benefit for men.
The fact is alot of the time women dress sexy to express themselves, their own sexuality (that does not mean just wanting sex) and to compete with other women. Just as men have differing ways of achieving and expressing social status so do women (and no it's not just for the prize of male attention). Flattery is nice but women do not solely dress for the attention of men like they are desperate concumbines that only live for pleasing men:
Wanting to look attractive is very healthy yet you accuse women of "dressing like whores"
Do you care to quote me on saying women "dressing like whores"??? Because I am pretty sure I never said that. Single my post where I said that. Because it is getting really annoying you using strawmen arguments in an attempt to make me look like I am saying things I have never said.
yet you think men being fixated on sex is fine and healthy. Double standards.. if men were NOT taught to be so fixated on sex there might be less rapes.
We are not taught to be fixated on sex.
Here is where the difference between men and women come into play. YOU as a women can never understand that we are not taught to think about sex...it is just how we are.
I know that won't stop you from making the claim that we are taught to be fixated on sex and that this in some way is responsible for all rapes...because I know you don't let logic and reason get in your way in your attempts to make a point.
So one simple question for you....do you think it is not a biological driven process that makes men more fixated on sex than women???
Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
And riley, the thread is actually about WHY 50% of women in a survey believe victims are to blame for rape. People then state logical reasons why this MIGHT be the case, and then they are given labels and having Straw Woman arguments thrown at them left, right and centre.
Twenty-four per cent of this age group said wearing a short skirt, accepting a drink or having a conversation with the rapist made victims partly responsible
Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...-victims-say-50-women.html#ixzz0fmdLTaUv
Originally posted by Dock9
Society and women's lib have for decades now have been hitting men with a big stick which says: ' Women can do what they like. They are equal to you. They can wear ...
In the natural world, it's the males of the species which fight each other for the best mates
Clearly, the human species has gone insane to the point we now have females dressing and squawking the loudest and competing with each other for that ever-decreasing male attention
reply to post by Dock9
I note that not many who're protesting so loudly here about the fact 50% of women blame women for alleged rape ---- are steering WELL clear of that other thread
Originally posted by novacs4me
I am not surprised at the poll results. I could take the same poll in my family at a multi-generational holiday gathering, and I would expect the same percentages. Would it be a derailment of the thread to ask if any of you think the women-ask-for-it attitude will ever go away? I don't believe it will. Wishing won't make it so. Name-calling won't make it so. Educating men and women on the true statistics about who does and doesn't get raped won't make it so. I don't think I am a pessimist. I think I am a realist.
Yes, but who is the 'us'? Just a bunch of ATS posters. And if you had read any of my past posts, you would know that I don't hold fairytale values, and have encouraged women to learn self defense.
Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Originally posted by novacs4me
I am not surprised at the poll results. I could take the same poll in my family at a multi-generational holiday gathering, and I would expect the same percentages. Would it be a derailment of the thread to ask if any of you think the women-ask-for-it attitude will ever go away? I don't believe it will. Wishing won't make it so. Name-calling won't make it so. Educating men and women on the true statistics about who does and doesn't get raped won't make it so. I don't think I am a pessimist. I think I am a realist.
The problem is that most of us do NOT advocate this idea of "well-she-was-asking-for-it". How is giving women advice on how to take precautions and encouraging them to draw less attention to themselves the same as saying victims of rape were asking for it?
If you haven't noticed, we don't live in a Fairytale World where all people are nice, friendly beings that only want to help and spread their love to others. There are bad people out there that will do bad things to people. This does not mean we have to live in a paranoid state, assuming the worst of everyone we encounter. But there are practical ways for people to take precautions for their own safety and these should be encouraged to ensure that our loved ones do not face harm of which they could have avoided.
[edit on 17/2/2010 by Dark Ghost]
Originally posted by novacs4me
Yes, but who is the 'us'? Just a bunch of ATS posters. And if you had read any of my past posts, you would know that I don't hold fairytale values, and have encouraged women to learn self defense.
Edit to add I do not mean 'just a bunch of ATS posters' in a negative way. I mean I do not believe we are representative of society.
Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Originally posted by novacs4me
Yes, but who is the 'us'? Just a bunch of ATS posters. And if you had read any of my past posts, you would know that I don't hold fairytale values, and have encouraged women to learn self defense.
Edit to add I do not mean 'just a bunch of ATS posters' in a negative way. I mean I do not believe we are representative of society.
Fair enough. I apologise for the "fairytale" remark and take it back. Women learning self-defence is a good idea and I agree.
I understand what you are saying about the "us". It is just irritating that certain members obviously have preconceived notions about other members and choose to associate them with ideas/reasoning that they did not even suggest. I guess it is to be expected in such a sensitive topic.
Originally posted by Fangula
How could rape ever be the fault of the victim? By comparison, that's like saying that it's a homosexual's fault for being a victim of a hate crime.
Placing the blame on the victim is just a tactic used by sleazy attorneys in court. By the way, that is a very small percentage of women who actually report rape to the police. I know someone who was raped, and she has told me that she never told her parents or the police, because of the shame it brought her. Rape is definitely a horrible crime.
I do, however, agree that some women (not many) fraudulently report that they've been raped by someone they know... to get revenge. That, in my opinion, is just as terrible as rape itself. I'm not sure how rape cases are proven or disproven, but it seems like it would be fairly easy for a woman to easily get someone who did not rape her imprisoned. That's me speculating, but what exactly would she have to prove other than she was with the guy at the time she says he raped her? Anyone know any more about this which you could fill me in on?
Originally posted by rcwj1975
Yes we DO charge for false claims, BUT the kick in the nuts to the men is its only a misdemeanor charge to the women. That means USUALLY a fine, court costs, and a year probation. Laws need changing IMO!!!
Some have followed through with rape kits and then it was found to be a false claim. Obviously when the nurse/doc come tell use there are NO signs of force that is when the heat is turned up on her. I will say asking some of the fakes to submit to a rape kit is funny because they will sit there and come up with UNBELIEVABLE reasons as to why they can't have it done or go through with it. Then of course the truth comes out and thats that.
After a few years deaing with it, you learn to see the signs of women who truly have been raped or abused, to those who are looking to use it as a way to cover up. Trust me, a REAL rape victim has indicators that CANNOT be faked...
As for men being raped by women, I really doubt this happens very often. Though it's hard to be sure how often it happens, as men would feel so belittled and embarassed that they could not report that happening, due to the ego. Plus, most men would happily consent to sex, anyway.
And as for these 50% of women who were surveyed said it's the woman's fault for being raped... shame on those few women who say that. But like that other poster said, not enough women were surveyed for it to be an accurate depiction of society as a whole.
It's absolutely ridiculous to say it's the victim's fault. Even if the woman was dressed in a very sexually enticing way, that in no way forces a guy to rape her. The man clearly has no self-control, and that is his fault.
Also, I believe dressing in a sexual manner is instinct--used to attract a mate for procreation. That, however, does not mean the woman is looking for sex with the guy who raped her, or even necessarily anyone at all that night or day. Afterall, we all like to look good when we go out.
Blaming a rape victim for being raped is like blaming a victim of an unprovoked murder for being murdered. This blaming of the victim is just used as an excuse, like I said.
One Love.
reply to post by nerbot
Are you seriously trying to say that NO rapes are avoidable