Rape? It's the fault of the victims, say 50 per cent of women

Originally posted by riley
What kinds of things do they generally say? What justifications? What excuses? When they "break" and tell the truth (if they do) what do they have to say for themselves?

I'm asking sincerely. If a rapist is interviewed for "research" he might give different answers than he would in a police station and different again in a courtroom.

..and for the record I'm talking about real rapists not falsely accused/regret sex.

Ill give you the ones I have been told face to face. MODS, sorry but a bad word MIGHT slip in here..lol

- I asked her out, but she laughed at me. It pissed me off so much that I just knew that bitch should pay.

- I don't know why. I simply blacked out and the next thing I remember was her crying and me telling her I was sorry if anything happened.

- Because I felt like it! (yes that was an actual answer given)

- She would never give me the time of day. I knew I wasn't her type, but I find her irresistable, and knew I had to have her.

- I love her more than she knows. I can't let her ruin her life with some other guy who will treat her bad.

and my personal favorite (sarcasm)

- That bitch asked for it. When you fluant it like that, you want it, and I was going to be the one to get it.

The last one is why I can personally say that dress DOES in SOME cases play a role in the rapist decision to target you.

Originally posted by Selahobed
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

They are here right now using my account to talk to you... Although, they have already had time to review your posts which is unfair on you, but hey ho, thats the internet!!!

Soooo.... Georgia huh?? Hows that going for ya?? xxxx

Why not stop being cryptic and come out and say what you want?


Georgia has no meaning or connection to me...care to explain?

wow, i'd say that i can't believe this argument is still going in circles, but i actually can believe it.

So lets recap, shall we?

Nobody ever said that rape should be okay. Nobody ever said that culprit should be excused...but many of you are sexist and keep insisting that it's only men who rape.

But that doesn't stop some of you from claiming that we're saying its okay to rape (see, this is called a cop-out. Weak-minded individuals resort to a cop-out when they can't think of any way to justify their own intellectual shortcomings)

Instead, we have said to be responsible and take action for yourself. Don't live in a fantasy world.

But then you change the subject and talk about something else....(because we know that you know that we're right, and honestly, thats good enough for me. The weak arguments i've seen, and the pandering and off-topic yammering is all the proof i need that you do recognize it...even if you never will publicly admit it.)


So...What have we learned from all of this?


Intelligent adults will tell you that you should take responsibility for your own actions.

Idiots living in a fantasy world will say you should do whatever you want, and blame the bad things that happen to you on someone else.


Which reality will you choose?

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


So you have experience then?? What happened that gave you that opinion??? is that funny too??

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I think she means me my friend. I am in Georgia. And I don't even think she knows the Georgia in the US...she probably thinks the Republic of Georgia.

Not to mention, if they are sending lady BS U2U's they are prob posing and not even 18 yet. If they are over 18 and acting like this they need to be banned or grow up cause its sad.

reply to post by Selahobed


Your post literally just enforced everything rcwj1975 just said.

"No 1-Liners: Please do not create minimal "me too," "I agree," or similar very-short replies."

Read the rules please.

Originally posted by Selahobed
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

So you have experience then?? What happened that gave you that opinion??? is that funny too??

Yes...I happen to know plenty of psychologist because of my work. No...never as a "patient" if you can even call it that...I would call them more like clients...because that is all they are...money paying clients.


I'm still waiting to be analyzed by your friends psycho-babble. Or is this the extent of it...asking open ended questions and thinking that they are brilliant for getting answers??? Because you know what...we can all do that...watch.


Why did you need to point out you had friends that are psychologist? Does your need to insult others on this board by overtly calling them rapist come from your own insecurity? Do you find it easier to blame others than be responsible for yourself?


See *poof* I'm a psychologist.

Originally posted by rcwj1975
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

I think she means me my friend. I am in Georgia. And I don't even think she knows the Georgia in the US...she probably thinks the Republic of Georgia.

Not to mention, if they are sending lady BS U2U's they are prob posing and not even 18 yet. If they are over 18 and acting like this they need to be banned or grow up cause its sad.

I see...silly me...since it said "reply to Outkast Searcher" I assumed she was talking to me.


It must be one of those psychology tricks...address someone while asking a question to someone else.

Originally posted by rcwj1975

Originally posted by riley
What kinds of things do they generally say? What justifications? What excuses? When they "break" and tell the truth (if they do) what do they have to say for themselves?

I'm asking sincerely. If a rapist is interviewed for "research" he might give different answers than he would in a police station and different again in a courtroom.

..and for the record I'm talking about real rapists not falsely accused/regret sex.

Ill give you the ones I have been told face to face. MODS, sorry but a bad word MIGHT slip in here..lol

- I asked her out, but she laughed at me. It pissed me off so much that I just knew that bitch should pay.

Thats sends chills. So that motivation is revenge and punnishment.

- I don't know why. I simply blacked out and the next thing I remember was her crying and me telling her I was sorry if anything happened.

I'm honestly not sure what to think of that answer.

- Because I felt like it! (yes that was an actual answer given)

..or that one.

- She would never give me the time of day. I knew I wasn't her type, but I find her irresistable, and knew I had to have her.

Sounds very objectying like she is a "thing" to collect.

- I love her more than she knows. I can't let her ruin her life with some other guy who will treat her bad.

Huh? Thats scary and bizarre logic. I wonder what a rapist considers to be bad behaviour?

and my personal favorite (sarcasm)

- That bitch asked for it. When you fluant it like that, you want it, and I was going to be the one to get it.

The last one is why I can personally say that dress DOES in SOME cases play a role in the rapist decision to target you.

Thankyou for posting those.. trying to understand such minds is important if we want society to change.

The point I have been making is that culturally some people are taught that women should be "punnished" for showing themselves off. People keep saying "if you dress like a whore you ask for it" (so yes some do sound rapists if you've heared rapists say that) but if people did not perpetuate that attitude there would be less men willing to "punnish" women for not dressing according to their standards. Some people think groping a woman for dressing sexy is an "understandable reaction" but the extreme is raping women for not covering themselves head to toe. I posted this before but it does show how society's attitude towards women is indeed allowing for "vigilanti justice" to punnish them for not conforming to various unwritten dress codes. I believe rapists only use the way a woman dresses as an excuse to attack. If a rapist can't find a women dressed "slutty enough to rape" he'll keep looking or perhaps change his requirements. I do not believe men turn into rapists only after they see a sexy woman.. I think they start off looking for them.

Seriously.. read through the thread again and compare what some people are saying to this cleric:

www.theaustralian.com.au...
THE nation's most senior Muslim cleric has blamed immodestly dressed women who don't wear Islamic headdress for being preyed on by men and likened them to abandoned "meat" that attracts voracious animals.

In a Ramadan sermon that has outraged Muslim women leaders, Sydney-based Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali also alluded to the infamous Sydney gang rapes, suggesting the attackers were not entirely to blame.

While not specifically referring to the rapes, brutal attacks on four women for which a group of young Lebanese men received long jail sentences, Sheik Hilali said there were women who "sway suggestively" and wore make-up and immodest dress ... "and then you get a judge without mercy (rahma) and gives you 65 years".

"But the problem, but the problem all began with who?" he asked.

The leader of the 2000 rapes in Sydney's southwest, Bilal Skaf, a Muslim, was initially sentenced to 55 years' jail, but later had the sentence reduced on appeal.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.

End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered meat is the problem."

The sheik then said: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.

Btw. I think this sheik is just saying what many people (of all nationalities) think of women anyway. The "if you dress like a whore you ask for it" sentiment is very common.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by riley]

Originally posted by Snarf
wow, i'd say that i can't believe this argument is still going in circles, but i actually can believe it.

So lets recap, shall we?

Nobody ever said that rape should be okay. Nobody ever said that culprit should be excused...but many of you are sexist and keep insisting that it's only men who rape.

The OP is about FEMALE rape victims; not male or child rape victims. People are not being sexist against men.. they are just sticking to the topic.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by riley]

Originally posted by Aeons
Be Modest.

Or Else.

That's a lot of words for a simple, and really disgusting, concept.

Did you actually read my post or did you have a preconceived idea of what my "agenda" was and once you saw a sentence that fit this idea of yours you came to this ridiculous conclusion?

Why is it so hard to understand? Why do you want to resist reality? Are you really concerned about the dangers women face? To say that level of attractiveness has nothing to do with rape and that dressing in clothes that emphasise a woman's T&A do not make women more of a target is just ignorance at its highest! Like I keep reiterating, this does not make woman responsible for rape, but it INCREASES the likelihood that she will be raped when an opportunity arises!

What is wrong with encouraging both men and woman to dress more modestly in general? What is wrong with wanting the peace of mind that your mother, daughter, sister, cousin or wife are taking practical precautions to ensure that they are safe and not an easy target for bad people?

Edit: Please have a look at this photo comparison of well-known actress Jessica Alba.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/05caeb671a45.jpg[/atsimg]

Can you see how in the photo on the right she manages to dress in fashionable clothes while staying cool and does not encourage attention to be paid to certain body parts?

[edit on 16/2/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Originally posted by riley

Btw. I think this sheik is just saying what many people (of all nationalities) think of women anyway. The "if you dress like a whore you ask for it" sentiment is very common.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by riley]

It is common, Riley. I've had it said to me in the past. I grew up believing most men thought that way. This would have been 30-40 years ago. It is only recently that I have heard men say it would NOT justify rape. So the guys posting here seem pretty enlightened to me. Most have strongly asserted that NOTHING justifies rape.

Snarf: excellent post




Ok. Let's try this, to see if it will cut through the fear that appears to be dictating many of the 'Rape is never right' crew with tunnel vision created by the mere term, 'rape' (obviously a very emotive word for some)


If you walk into the middle of a busy road, then stand there with your eyes closed --- you're going to be killed or injured

If you do NOT walk into the middle of the road --- you won't be killed an injured


By the same token, if you go to places where men congregate and where liquor is served ... and if you indicate by your attire and behaviour that you want men's attention ---- there's a strong chance you're going to have sex

If you go to the same venues but do NOT deliberately dress and behave in a manner which will invite unwanted sexual advances --- there's a good chance you'll make your way home safely and without incident at the end of the night


'Real' women know that and behave accordingly

Idiot-women (and there are plenty) want to believe they can play with fire without being burned



Further: Re: the terms of Breaking Alternative News, I was required to copy the news headline word for word, i.e., 'Rape ? It's the fault of the victims, say 50 percent of women'

'New's is a competitive business which fights to gain maximum attention --- very much in the way 'Sad Excuses for Women' deliberately set out to attract male attention which they often later whine about


If the thread topic instead had said something along the lines of:

50% of women say sluttish behaviour prompts rough-sex which is mislabelled as 'rape' ---- it may well have been greeted with half a dozen posts saying basically, ' Duh. Tell us something we don't know '

reply to post by seagull

That is a common misconception. Dress, attitude have nothing, or very little, to do with rape...Rape is not about the sex... It's about POWER, and utilizing that power in the most intimate of ways.

I am living in South Africa and one of the sad realities in our country is that you are almost guaranteed to get raped in a house robbery. In our country both men and women are raped in their homes by criminals.

Many times the male victims are forced to watch while their partners are gang raped by the criminals. It is interesting to see how this discussion focuses on the clothes women are wearing, having too much to drink, etc.

I believe South Africa is the rape capitol of the world. Here you have no way to protect yourself. This morning I read in a newspaper about a woman who used her teeth to defend herself. She bit the attacker so hard that he lost interest in the rape, and he then casually continued with the robbery - removing stuff from the house.

The rest of the world has no idea what is happening in South Africa. I wish to warn all vistors to the 2010 Soccer World Cup to be held in South Africa this year - the chances of being robbed, murdered or raped is very good. Rather watch the games on TV.

There is something terribly wrong in South Africa and we do not even talk about rape and murder anymore. It is so common here that it hardly gets mentioned.

There's distinct irony on show here


Society and women's lib have for decades now have been hitting men with a big stick which says: ' Women can do what they like. They are equal to you. They can wear nothing if they like and walk down Main street. Only a pig would try to have sex with a naked women who is simply exercising her right to dress as she pleases'

Fine. Over time, men have been programmed to accept that


It's resulted in females behaving and dressing in increasingly provocative manner in order to gain the attention of men who have learned to ignore women's inflated and exposed breasts, their liposuctioned bare midriffs and other exposed flesh

Men have learned that society expects them to wear blinkers and to not respond to these exhibitions of brazen invitation

Young girls are influenced by shameless and lewd exhibitionists such as Lady Ga Ga and believe that's how 'fun' girls must dress and behave if they're to attract men or even to attract that 'special' man who will love and cherish them for life

Men, meanwhile, are staying with other men, talking sport, at the far end of the venue

Women are behaving like a group of chimpanzees, talking ever more loudly, flashing more flesh and doing all in their power to attract men's attention

In the natural world, it's the male of the species which wears the bright colours and makes the loudest squawk, to gain the attention of the female --- and you'll note that in the natural world, the female of the species is the one in the drab colours, the smallest external 'display' feathers, horns or ruff

In the natural world, it's the males of the species which fight each other for the best mates

Clearly, the human species has gone insane to the point we now have females dressing and squawking the loudest and competing with each other for that ever-decreasing male attention

Originally posted by Dock9
If you do NOT walk into the middle of the road --- you won't be killed an injured


By the same token, if you go to places where men congregate and where liquor is served ... and if you indicate by your attire and behaviour that you want men's attention ---- there's a strong chance you're going to have sex

I have gone to alot of bars and nightclubs in my life and I have never ended up having sex with some stranger.

..and I have also dressed sexy so you argument is based on ignorant assumptions. The fact is alot of the time women dress sexy to express themselves, their own sexuality (that does not mean just wanting sex) and to compete with other women. Just as men have differing ways of achieving and expressing social status so do women (and no it's not just for the prize of male attention). Flattery is nice but women do not solely dress for the attention of men like they are desperate concumbines that only live for pleasing men:

"OH PLZ PLZ PLZ GIVE ME COMPLIMENTS I AM WORTHLESS WITHOUT THEM!

"

Thats ridiculous most women do not feel or act that way.

I used to own a pair of leather pants.. why? because I have a nice arse and they helped me express my rebelious side.. and I really liked Jim Morrison and I wanted to be more like him. I have not always dressed sexy in clubs.. but when I have I've never EVER worn sexy clothes because I want to pander for male attention (unless it was for a bf) or wanted to have sexual intercourse with a total stranger so your argument that there "is a strong chance that there will be sex" is bs and based on your perceptions of what YOU think motivates women. You clearly have no clue what women want or are after. Some women just like live bands, dancing and getting dressed up.

If you go to the same venues but do NOT deliberately dress and behave in a manner which will invite unwanted sexual advances --- there's a good chance you'll make your way home safely and without incident at the end of the night


'Real' women know that and behave accordingly

So I'm not a real women because I have gone to clubs and dressed sexy? Invited unwanted advances? What does that even mean exactly?

"Can I buy you a drink?"
I can say yes or no.

If you mean someone grabbing me on the breast I would not cosider an unwanted sexual advance. I would consider it an unwanted physical assault and would respond in kind.

So I'll break it down for you.

Someone grabs a woman on the breast.. that is assault. She has a right to assault him back and defend himself.

So.. when exactly did she assault him to make him react by grabbing her on the breast in the first place? You are argueing that his action is a reaction to her behaviour. Thats a cop out and implies men are pathetic and have no control.

..and people please stop with the "standing in the middle of a highway and get hit by a car" bs comparisions. That would only be a valid comparison if a woman actually went an stood in the middle of a male sex offenders prison yard.

Why the need for such extreme analogies? because they cannot use real life examples without admitting that they do indeed condone in some cases.

edit. "REAL MEN" know how to behave and treat women.. real men would own their own behaviour, not blame women for it and they would expect the same from their peers.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by riley]

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Edit: Please have a look at this photo comparison of well-known actress Jessica Alba.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/05caeb671a45.jpg[/atsimg]

Can you see how in the photo on the right she manages to dress in fashionable clothes while staying cool and does not encourage attention to be paid to certain body parts?

Yeah alright now post an example wear she is wearing "modest" evening wear. She is obviously not at an event where jeans are allowed.. she is wearing STREET clothes and I doubt very much that she was about to walk through a ghetto wearing that evening gown. They showed just as much cleavage 300 years ago (more with corsets) so your argument that women are less modest these days is almost as silly as you comparing jeans to designer dresses.

Incidentally I think she looks very beautiful and do not think she looks immodest at all. It's very elegant and it's a very classic and tasteful design.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by riley]

reply to post by Dock9


Great points Dock9.

I'd like to add something to this part

Society and women's lib have for decades now have been hitting men with a big stick which says: ' Women can do what they like. They are equal to you. They can wear nothing if they like and walk down Main street.

I find if kind of funny that feminist think they have gained some kind of victory by convincing young women that they should be able to dress any way they want and not be called a slut. They have convinced them that they shouldn't be called a slut if they sleep around with guys...because that is a double standard. And you know how is happy as hell about this....MEN. Feminist and women's lib did what men have been trying to do forever...convince women to have casual sex. Congrats fem-nazis...you just played right into men's hands.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher
Ok, hold up. I was with ya up to this point. But... I believe women do have the "right" to sleep with whomever they want and with how many people they want. That is going to be based on the woman's value set and what she believes is right for her. I fail to see the connection between the feminist movement pushing to change women such that men end up with exactly what they want.... and by implication, women do not.