do Birthers suffer from advanced delusionary schizophrenia with involuntary narcissistic rage?

I don't come to this site to swollow the crap the Government is dishing out. This is the lamest post I have seen in my 2 yrs on this site!!!!!
I wish the had Negative Stars & Flags.
He is the ONLY president in American History to not have his Birth Certificate on record.
His Cert. of Live birth isn't worth the paper it was forged on.
You Government Lovers - PLEASE leave this site!!!!

reply to post by Dramey


actually- if you go to the DMV and give them your drivers license - you dont need to provide anything else.

simple as that.

you dont need a birth certificate at the DMV....please stop making things up

[edit on 3-2-2010 by Snarf]

Originally posted by civilchallenger
reply to post by Snarf

 

Its too late and we'll never know the truth.

Quote of the century! So why argue?


Hey snarf, I wasn't attacking you. I just felt like you were siding with the POTUS, then calling names to "birthers".

After reading all 7 pages....there's too much garble to understand who's siding with who.

I'll stay out of this one. Frankly, there's way more important things going on right nwo....oops I mean now. (pun intended)

Originally posted by Dramey

well theoretically it may be debate-able, but legally it really isnt

if you have to go somewhere as basic as the dmv
or in the court of law

A certificate of live birth isn't legally debatable either, if it is authentic.

First of all, when you want to obtain a copy of your birth certificate, they give you the same documentation Obama provided.

Secondly, when you go to the DMV to get a license in most states, a valid driver's license from another state is usually enough (though this is changing because of the war on terror). But if you don't have a license at all and want to get a new one, they accept certificates of live birth. Very few people would be able to get a license if this was not the case and you had to present your origional birth certificate. The only birth certificate I have is, in fact, a certificate of live birth from the state of Ohio.

Originally posted by Dramey
if he produced that document, it would take several steps to dispute that situation further

So what? People would still dispute it. The birther movement would not die. It would only make further demands.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by ClintK]

[edit on 3-2-2010 by ClintK]

You can look at any group of people anywhere at anytime and find people that fit your description. There is nothing wrong with questioning something that is not proven. In a world full of lies, corrupt governments, scandal's etc etc etc is it really unfathomable that an illegal alien could become president? Really, think about it weirder things have happened. Im not a "truther" by any means, I haven't even looked into the matter but anything is possible. I ask you this though, Can you prove that he was born in the U.S.? I mean can you prove it to me? and not just say "well since he's president he must be a citizen"

Originally posted by concernedcitizan
reply to post by Snarf

 

Conspiracy thinking is dangerous because it does not correctly associate blame, and in doing so, has people fighting a chimera they can never defeat while ignoring real problems. It is a form of scapegoating, where we identify a conscious evil entity instead of the actual enemy, which is a system design that institutes radical evil, or the mundane form of accepted ways of doing things that produces negative results by its lack of realism.


All opinions are of equal validity, but the only determination of "worth" is how well they work in the real world. If we all had our opinions, and refused to change, there would be zero consensus on any issue. For this reason, we discipline our "opinions" (an ambiguous word that can include preferences, beliefs, fond notions, illusions, psychiatric dysfunctions as well as logical responses to the world around us in idea form) to what the best among us can perceive of reality, as this consistently produces the best results.

I find it ironic that your post - which sums up the psychology behind the matter - had no stars. Meanwhile, any post that is on either extreme has a zillion stars. That reinforcement of radical views encourages such radical views and pushes each extreme out farther from the center.

If I come in here and say "He is a Kenyan because he refuses to surrender his personal privacy at our fringe request!" I will get many stars despite the statement making no logical sense.

On the flip side, if I say "He is a citizen and is therefore enjoying his right to privacy after supplying sufficient proof to meet the requirements for office." I will get less stars despite making a valid argument.

Reason and common sense will always lose to radicalism when ego is involved. Radicalism brings a louder response than reason and common sense. A louder response feeds the ego of the one making the radical statement, and feeds that argument. If you are looking to win a popularity contest, try to be as radical and "out there" as you can.

Look at a lot of the popular radio talk show hosts!

I am surprised at the accusations in the OP, well not really.

Those were some wonderful choices to label those who would be considered "birthers".

All of them negative and bringing into question the character of anyone challenging Obama's birth place.

Personally I have no agenda.......

I am not American
I am not a Repuplican (or Democrat )
I don't reside in the US
I am not racist
I am not crazy or delusional (well some may argue)

However,


I do question the validity of the evidence provided as proof of his natural born status. To me, it is not so open and shut.

At the same time, so much crap has been put out there to disprove his natural born status. It is true, alot of it is hoaxed or false etc. But I really think that it has simply muddied the waters enough to cause confusion, blurring the lines of fact and fiction. Perhaps this was done in earnest or on purpose.

Obama's past seems somewhat less than clear, his actions in this matter and others with regards to sealing information raise questions. Mystery can draw attention and raise suspicion.

I am suspicious by nature, and this whole debacle feeds that suspicion. I am on the fence in this debate, if that makes me crazy, so be it.

Until this case is actually examined and recognized in a real court - the only people who are delusional narcissistic are those that still claim he is legitimate.

But with all this time they have had, I am sure they are having those document specialist working their butts off creating a document that will pass the test. I am sure they have an old ream of paper laying around and have ways of advancing the carbon timeline in the document to make it pass the test.

If NASA can make things disappear in photos, I am sure they have way to make a fake birth certificate. It just takes time

Keep stalling

[edit on 3-2-2010 by arizonascott]

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by civilchallenger

 

he has questionable biases to foriegn countries. The only comfort is that they are not major foreign powers.

Really? So - he made the choice himself to live there? he decided at a ripe young age that "im going to go live in Kenya"?

He decided to do all of those things, so it must mean that something like 40 years later, he knew he was going to win the popular vote & electoral college to become the first black president of the united states?

The only way his childhood connections with a non-threatening foreign nation can be at all questioned is if he knew, way back then, that he'd be running for POTUS and win.

Otherwise, he just went where his parents forced him to go.



and just because i don't participate in EVERY forum on this web site doesn't mean i don't have an opinion about every topic discussed here.

Don't be so ridiculous

[edit on 3-2-2010 by Snarf]

Okay, nobody chooses where the were born or raised. Few people specifically choose their biases. Biases tend to "naturally" happen. Obama is biased to Kenya and Indonesia. Just because he didn't specifically choose the biases doesn't mean he shouldn't be barred from being president on the grounds of those biases.

Whats ridiculous is how you label and insult people you don't agree with. The scizophrenia remark is all about offending and inflaming... not helping people out who need mental help. Your problem isn't with mental disorders... your problem is people have political beliefs that "get your goat". You may as well replaced "schizophrenia" with "##$%ing loser loonie @#$%" for the same effect.

Originally posted by arizonascott
Until this case is actually examined and recognized in a real court - the only people who are delusional narcissistic are those that still claim he is legitimate.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by arizonascott]

Oh for crying out loud the case has been examined in court numerous times. And it has been thrown out numerous times for utterly lacking any merit.

Originally posted by tac109
There is nothing wrong with questioning something that is not proven.

That is correct. In fact, it is a requirement for critical thinking and is important for responsible people to do.

I ask you this though, Can you prove that he was born in the U.S.? I mean can you prove it to me? and not just say "well since he's president he must be a citizen"

Sadly, the answer is YES but the "proof" is a moving target. You can say "prove it" and I can show you an official Certificate of Live Birth but that is not enough. Then I can show you the birth announcement posted in both Hawaiian newspapers (Advertiser and Star-Bulletin) but that is not enough. Then I can show you how the courts refuse to hear the case because it holds no merit, but that is not enough.

Hence delusional is the term to use when addressing birthers.

The only argument I have heard is return is "if he has nothing to hide, why doesn't he surrender his official long-form certificate, marriage certificates for his parents, submit to DNA testing, build a time-machine and take us to the delivery room..."

Government transparency != surrendering personal privacy. Clearly the burdon of proof is on the birthers, and I have yet to see any PROOF that he is NOT a natural born citizen.

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by beebs

 

Questioning my superiors is not allowed.

I was not outspoken until Obama came along.

Therefore I'm probably racist.

Now, you're playing the role of a victim?

Obama's citizenship has been proven. You have been given the evidence you need to shut up about it, but you refuse to accept it for what it is.

This isnt akin to "proving God does or does not exist" - this is quite the opposite in fact. you have REAL, tangible, hard core proof that Obama IS a citizen yet you choose to deny it.


That is the real definition of slight mental illness. As the OP suggests.


[edit on 2-2-2010 by Snarf]

You know Snarf, I would suggest that you simply grab all of this overwhelming evidence you are going on about and simply present it here. I'm not one for believing the 'birther' claims. I have tried hard in many of my posts to defend our president on this front. However, I think you are going about your argument in the WRONG way.

You are calling a whole group of people that truly believe in what they are doing a pretty nasty name. I thought that wasn't allowed. Sure, you put it in a CLEVER way but it's still name calling nonetheless.

Also, your comment about how they are so different that a name had to be created for them...well, that happens all of the time. It's called propoganda. Just like with the 'truthers' or now the degrading 'twoofers' and on and on and on.

When one side feels that someone is getting close they begin to create names for them and then try to belittle that name.

So, to save us from a bunch of flaming back and forth and name calling (like you are doing in your OP and the title) I would suggest you just go ahead and grab ALL of the evidence you have or that is public knowledge and present it here.

That would solve at least a bit of the conflict and give you a leg to stand on.

The links you provided are okay but not proof as they are, as you call it, from the internet and you already degraded information found there.

All he needs to do is show his birth certificate and all of this would go away.

Kind of strange he can't do that... SINCE ITS A KENYAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE

reply to post by dariousg

You know Snarf, I would suggest that you simply grab all of this overwhelming evidence you are going on about and simply present it here.

already have. Not doing it again if you're too lazy to google it yourself.

reply to post by nydsdan


You know, I could have saved myself a lot of typing had I had the patience to read down to page 8. LOL

Yes, you are right. You can present all of the supposed evidence yet it will always be questioned. But I don't know if you can rightfully call the people that believe there is something fishy going on as delusional. Sure, the definition can kind of be twisted there but these people believe what they believe. The problem is, they believe what they read on the internet and that is half of the problem right there. Instead of thinking for themselves and really trying to get to the bottom of this and look for the facts behind the claims they will believe what they read and pass it on.

But I still feel that this thread is a clever way to simply have a name calling spout off.

Its been fun watching this thread crumble under its own weight. Much like the WTC on 9/11.

You know, Lou Dobbs also asked for some answers as well. Does that make him crazy?

reply to post by jibeho

Lou Dobbs also asked for some answers as well. Does that make him crazy?

is that a serious question?

Lou Dobbs proved his insanity a long, long time ago.

reply to post by Snarf


Wow, I try to help you out and you pull that BS snotty rear remark in return. Guess I'm done trying to help you out on a subject I feel you are right on. Have a splendid day my friend. I will NEVER reply to another thread or post of yours on this site again.

Originally posted by dariousg
reply to post by Snarf

 

Wow, I try to help you out and you pull that BS snotty rear remark in return. Guess I'm done trying to help you out on a subject I feel you are right on. Have a splendid day my friend. I will NEVER reply to another thread or post of yours on this site again.

I don't need "help". I have truth and proof of it. Your remarks were doing nothing but trying to make me look silly.

I have posted several links and videos to sources that anyone can verify for themselves that "truth exists"

im not doing it again - if that makes me an ass, well, so be it. Don't reply to my posts anymore :shrug:

According to CNN's researchers, the original birth certificate no longer exists, as Hawaii discarded all paper birth records in 2001, and the certification of live birth is the official copy

-Wikipedia

So the birthers want something that doesn't exist.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by ClintK]