Chavez brings the house down in Copenhagen

unbridled capitalism gives us suffering in the form of abuse of overwhelming accumulated wealth, and the lack thereof of the disenfranchised.

unbridled communism lacks of personal incentive... for the lower classes.

combine the best aspects of socialism and capitalism into one perfected socio-economic-spiritually based system and you have a pathway towards pure efficiency on the side of human endeavor.

I want to see everyone on the planet have what they need to live a comfortable and enabling life... as a given.. without having to do anything extraneous for that aside from contributing at a base level.

I also want to see personal incentive remain,... and have entrepreneurship flourish.

imagine how many fertile minds would blossom if they didn't have to worry about a roof over their heads or food in their bellies?

IMO, all previous and current economic models have been grand experiments, and the future holds for us, the fruits of those labors, as a perfected system enters the arena...


I think most people complaining about this new model will do so because they either do not fully grasp the concept, or are emotionally addicted to the iage in their mind/heart they hold for their indoctrinated model, whatever that may be...

ever notice how most gung ho patriot libertarian types that would die for capitalism to survive.. are the very same people that suffer and complain under the boot of over-bearing abusive corporations?
ever wonder if these libertarian patriot types actually have HOLDINGS? or are entrepreneurs?? CEOs? in my experience, the vast majority of them are blue collar 'slave' factory worker types.
yes there are many that are not.. but the mass of them in the bell curve of their demographic of political leanings... are as i describe.

but yeah... kind of oxymoronic eh?

so t's fun to see Chaves reading his master's script.
it's all theatrics.. and it's all done to eventually make a better world.

oooh but you're clever and you 'see what they did right there' didn't you....
so what... it's not all evil....quit complaining.

you'll still be able to get some extra $ for your idea and hard work that contributes to humanity's wellbeing...
but you wont be able to horde it and pass it down to some ignorant spoiled brat that would abuse it all while others starve.

reccommended reading:
research "thermo-economics"
and "meritocracy"

-

Yea, Chavez is such a stand up guy When that crap over Honduras started he was the one of the regional leaders who said the US should intervene. Then he complains about our imperialism? What the US needs to do is let the rest of the world do with out our presence. No more troops overseas, no more disaster relief, since that all stems from our evil capitalist society. The big problem these little tin pot leaders have is that they are not getting a hand-out from the larger nations. WAAA Chavez hates capitalism because he like holding all the cards so the game in his country is played how he likes it.

reply to post by marg6043


Here it is.
It's on youtube . President DeVito should have given a speech similar
to this in Copenhagen. - Pro Capitalism-


The "prayer" is 'Global Warming".



[edit on 18-12-2009 by Eurisko2012]

[edit on 18-12-2009 by Eurisko2012]

Venezuela's oil is the kind that doesn't pollute.

Venezuela's massive wealth and spending is the kind that doesn't grease the wheels of corporatism.

Do all venezuelans live as well as Chavez and his family?

www.npr.org...

Venezuelan President's Power Extends to His Family

"During his eight years in office, Chavez's family members have managed to increase their personal power and wealth."

"The country has changed direction — and so has Barinas. Today, the Chavez family is the most powerful family in the state.

The president's father, Hugo de los Reyes Chavez, was once a school teacher. Now, he is the state's governor.

Anibal Chavez, one of the president's six brothers, is mayor of Sabaneta.

The eldest brother, Adan, is Venezuela's education minister.

And another brother, Argenis, is secretary of state in Barinas — a position created for him that does not exist anywhere else in the country.

The small house Hugo's parents occupied before their son became president still sits in a lower-middle class section of Barinas, encircled by a brown iron gate.

It is a big contrast with the home they occupy today. The immense governor's residence is nestled behind a high turquoise wall among tall trees and flower gardens.

i think this is the speech

Originally posted by Dr UAE
i think this is the speech

I watched for 7 minutes and he didn't really make any clear points.

Just a lot of incoherent rambling about being denied the right to speak from the podium (as he speaks from the podium). And again with the sulfur. He considers himself black but not that damn "yankee" Obama who has an invisible door?

Chavez

I rest my case.

Chavez continues to rattle his pitchfork just to get some publicity and talk trash whenever he can. The real story about this fool contradicts not only his buffonary but his rhetoris as well.

Chavez's socialism is as much about perpetuating his dictatorship over Venezuela and expanding his influence in Latin America as it is improving the lot of the poor (and if you can name a system on this Earth under which more people have been lifted out of poverty than free-market democracy, I'm all ears). It's especially ironic that Chavez would berate free-market nations for causing catastrophic climate change when he helps fund his own Bolivarian Revolution by selling his country's oil and natural gas to the United States.

reply to post by Deny Arrogance


Do the people of the US live as well as Obama?
Do the people of the UK live as well as Brown?

any political leader will always live better than those they govern.

I read earlier that capitolism works well when they have an honest goverment behind them.

Can anyone tell me an honest goverment?

President Chavez is correct as usual when it comes to calling world leaders to task and the truth is that these climate control initiatives are all about exploiting them for profit and control.

Capitalism isn’t so much destroying the planet but the banking system is.

The banking system exists not to keep our money and other valuables safe and secure as they were purely meant to be.

The banking system has brought the Western World and most of its citizens back to the days of indentured servitude through its skillful application of credit designed to make people slaves to debts that for the most part they will never finish paying off.

The way credit has been extended to most people and how it is used by most people simply alleviates pressure off of the large corporations that monopolize most of the employment opportunities available from having to pay anything remotely close to a living wage.

People have become more dependent in many ways on their Credit Scores and Ratings than they actually are too their employers, and careers. Making their monthly payments on time is a greater guarantee of money always being there when you need it than a person’s career and employment.

Artificially low wages that enable the dominant corporations to make obscene profits and pay stratospheric salaries and bonuses to that small group of senior managers and executives while providing a modest dividend to the common stock holders create an atmosphere where far too many honest and hard working Americans live paycheck to paycheck and often have to borrow just to meet routine living expenses.

Of course this also makes for a humble, subservient and meek worker who can’t afford to risk loosing their job not so much for the loss of the comparatively meager wages, but out of fear they will fall behind on paying their debts and jeopardize that Credit Score and the credit that comes along with it to supplement their low wages in order to have a reasonable quality of life that any hard working and honest competent person deserves.

Our Governments too have become adept at saddling the citizens with even more debt through their own eager borrowing of money that is often used on frivolous programs and wars, which are rife with corruption, inefficiency, fraud and other wildly inflated costs.

When most people get done paying Income Taxes, Social Security and Medicare Taxes, Federal, State and Local excise and sales taxes, licensing fees and registrations, insurances and other required fees over 50% of their wages are already gone. Gone with very little return in the way of services or representation from and within government.
Add the government’s debt to personal debt and what you have is 60% of the population working like slaves to barely make ends meet and survive and often as humble, compliant, and submissive and subservient as slaves for fear that any assertive action could result in loosing that meager paycheck that barely allows them to keep all the complex debt ridden methods utilized for survival working for them.

Climate initiatives are just one more way for increasingly authoritarian and Orwellian Western Governments to saddle its citizens with more debt while continuing to grow government and increase their already excessive powers and controls.

It has sadly reached the point where our governments have become such a unaccountable world unto themselves entrenched in such vast and expansive bureaucracies that they have not only lost touch with the citizens that they are supposed to be serving but feel that the citizens are utterly incapable of seeing government’s actions for what they are and if they could having any mechanism or possible chance of curtailing them or stopping them.

Between Government Officials and their sound bite edicts and statements, and the Mainstream News Media and their insidious concerted efforts with the Governments and the Corporations to contrive to create an atmosphere of unthinking and unquestioning political correctness the few honest politicians like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich, Hugo Chavez and to a certain extent Iranian President Ahmadinejad are simply portrayed as nut cases when they speak with frank common sense on the issues facing our nation and the wider world.

Capitalism is not killing us, the Banksters and Corporate Monopolies are though.

Originally posted by munkey66
reply to post by Deny Arrogance

 

Do the people of the US live as well as Obama?
Do the people of the UK live as well as Brown?

any political leader will always live better than those they govern.

I read earlier that capitolism works well when they have an honest goverment behind them.

Can anyone tell me an honest goverment?

Not all because the US and UK are not, and don't claim to be egalitarian socialist states despite what fox news and rush limbaugh would have you believe.

I know of no honest government due to this pesky thing called human nature. The power elite always look out for their friends and family first.

[edit on 18-12-2009 by Deny Arrogance]

[edit on 18-12-2009 by Deny Arrogance]

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Misoir

 

..., the other ghost that is probably wandering around this room, that’s the way to save the planet, capitalism is the road to hell....let’s fight against capitalism and make it obey us.”

Man can this guy fling the BULL or what. Meanwhile he takes over privately owned companies and watches the stock market closely to see where the price of oil is headed.

I heard the whole speech, and Chavez NEVER said that.
He did say and quoted a lot of ideas on SHARING and consuming less.

And the reason why Chavez mixes Capitalism with Corporatism is beacause in his mind, corporatism is just what capitalism evolves to.


[edit on 18-12-2009 by Sator]

Originally posted by munkey66
reply to post by Deny Arrogance

 

Do the people of the US live as well as Obama?
Do the people of the UK live as well as Brown?

any political leader will always live better than those they govern.

I read earlier that capitolism works well when they have an honest goverment behind them.

Can anyone tell me an honest goverment?

To answer, yes some people actually do live better than Obama or Brown. Capitolism works? America works, and even if some think it doesen't that just boils down to their opinion and situation.

Honest government? is there such a thing, I mean come on now.

"If Obama, Nobel War Prize, said here, by the way, it smells of sulfur here. It smells of sulfur. It keeps smelling of sulfur in this world"

What a flip-flopper.

“It doesn't smell of sulfur here anymore,” he said on September 24. “it doesn't smell of sulfur, it's gone. No -- it smells of something else. It smells of hope.”

He should seriously see a doctor. It can't be a coincidence that he smells sulfur every time he speaks. Halitosis (bad breath) is stimulated by volatile sulfur compounds, which are released by the break down of proteins by the bacteria.



[edit on 18-12-2009 by Deny Arrogance]

Im a big fan of chavez. But he really sticks his foot in his mouth sometimes, okay probably more than some times. He is passionate which sometimes takes precedent in his speeches over logic. Capitalism is not evil, corporatism is. Capitalism that is not restrained can have a habit of turning into corporatism, i don't think there has ever been a time in recent human history where those with money want power over the policies of a government. And there is no way to stop that, all you can do is limit it as much as you can. As for socialism, i don't like sitting on the fence. The UK for example is not socialist, we are just like America..corporatist in nature but with alot more social democratic policies thrown into the mix. Im a fan of marx style communism personally, but right now countries need a healthy mix of capitalism and social democratic policies.

[edit on 18-12-2009 by Solomons]

Originally posted by Deny Arrogance
Do all venezuelans live as well as Chavez and his family?

www.npr.org...

Venezuelan President's Power Extends to His Family

"During his eight years in office, Chavez's family members have managed to increase their personal power and wealth."

"The country has changed direction — and so has Barinas. Today, the Chavez family is the most powerful family in the state.

The president's father, Hugo de los Reyes Chavez, was once a school teacher. Now, he is the state's governor.

Anibal Chavez, one of the president's six brothers, is mayor of Sabaneta.

The eldest brother, Adan, is Venezuela's education minister.

And another brother, Argenis, is secretary of state in Barinas — a position created for him that does not exist anywhere else in the country.

The small house Hugo's parents occupied before their son became president still sits in a lower-middle class section of Barinas, encircled by a brown iron gate.

It is a big contrast with the home they occupy today. The immense governor's residence is nestled behind a high turquoise wall among tall trees and flower gardens.

Do Americans live as well as the obamas or 237 congressional millionares?

..and if you tried not really hard, I'll bet there are thousands of links to stories about how US party elite take care of their own. Oh wait: en.wikipedia.org...

I support chavez he has let power currupt him but he has the testicles to call it like he sees it.. not like the party loyalist unics we have who ignore the death of the nation while smiling out lies about what a great job their party is doing (killing strangers, bankrupting america and ignoring the will of the people)

BTW one of the most beautiful places on earth is Margarita island venezuela.. accessible by boat and a great place to watch the SHTF US civil war / collapse. where adults can drink a beer on the beach, .50 gas, beachfront condo $900 US per mo and as long as you're not disturbing others.. you can use personal amounts of plant matter without some .gov goon taking you to jail for minding your own business... no heavy handed LAPD "your papers please" checkpoints either. chavez or not, I felt more free from gov intrusion there than in los angeles...

reply to post by ziggy1706


Rutger Hauer. Blind Fury. Pretty good movie. Flesh & Blood. Check out the young Jennifer Jason Leigh in that movie. wooohooo

Wedlock is the title of the film he starred in with the prison and exploding collars. Pretty good movie, as most of his are.

Hugo Chavez is enjoying a pretty good run of things, like Rutger Hauer. I wonder if Hugo will be around as long as Rutger Hauer has been. Hugo is a pretty good actor and people around the world enjoy his speeches for sure. Like Rutger, he can play a villain and also do comedy during his speeches.

reply to post by GovtFlu


I agree.

All government systems are corrupt due to human nature.

I though I made my viewpoint clear.

Almost all national level leaders are corrupt hypocrites, otherwise they could not rise to that level of power.

At least Evo Morales seems to practice what he preaches and lives humbly...so far.

Originally posted by SuperSecretSquirrel
Corporatism= What you get when the government is largely influenced by the corporate world.

Capitalism= An economic theory which relies on free markets.

Do you know what the "free market" is?

Free market is an economic market system free of government intervention. That means corporations are not held accountable for what they do.

It must be nice to have no accountability. Seems like something corporations would be very in favor of, don't you agree? So I wonder how they manage to convert an entire nation to the free market?

Answer: Lobbying. Lobbying = the government is largely influenced by the corporate world.

Corporatism and Capitalism are synonymous.

The United States and it's Western counter parts are Corporatist. There is no greater proof of that than NATO's war on Yugoslavia. It wasn't about "humanitarian aid" and "ousting a dictator" like the corporate-owned Western media outlets sold you. It was about converting their largely independent, efficient, and fair economy to a free market system.

Today's wars are corporate wars. They are to seize control of major economic assets in non-compliant countries for the good of the West's corporate masters.

No wonder the West wins every time.

Heil Capitalism!