Gays 'will never go to heaven'

I was brought up in a strict christian family, and I've since grown up and kept my belief in God, but completely rejected the power, money and control mad church. They cherry pick what they want from the Bible to serve their own desires, and to keep people in line, and then competely gloss over the parts that don't suit their needs, or apply them in some regards but not all.

First off: The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart. We cannot see a person's soul, and we cannot know their true reasons for doing anything at all. It is for this reason that we are incapable of judging each other, for only God knows what is in our hearts and can therefore judge fairly.

The main verse against homosexuality is in www.biblegateway.com...]Leviticus 18, verse 22. I could go into a whole big explanation about how this verse contained a word that we just don't know the meaning of. In the past, the word was translated to prohibit masturbation, but this became a rather unpopular demand, so it was changed to prohibit homosexuality. However, we'll ignore that and leave the verse as it stands. If you read through the rest of the chapter you'll also find a lot of other commands about sexual practises that are forbidden as well.

In the very next chapter, some more things are forbidden, but we don't hear this preached about or really mentioned. These verses, apparently, don't apply to us because the book of Leviticus is written to outline the rules laid out for Levitican priests. That same get out excuse is ignored and denied when it comes to that one, single verse that was changed on purpose to prohibit homosexuality.

Next Chapter

Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. (Allotment owners will burn in hell)
Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material (polycotton is prohibited by God)
Do not eat any meat with the blood still in it. (No rare steak if you're a christian)
Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard. (Men, if you shave, you burn)
Rise in the presence of the aged, show respect for the elderly and revere your God. I am the LORD. (If you don't give up your seat on a bus for an eldery person, you may be struck down).

Now, these are for Levitican priests, but so is the whole book, and nowhere does it say that you forfeit any chance of going to Heaven if you break any of these.

However, if you mention any of these to a good gay hating christian, they'll dismiss it out of hand. Try it, then point out that they're dismissing the holy word of God.


[edit on 3-12-2009 by TheIrvy]

Only God can say who can enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

My guess is he won't look too favourably on those priests who try to tell him what to do?

But I do speak as an atheist ......

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by northof8
Hmm... That's the same way I feel when most homosexuals or homosexual supporters start spouting off at the mouth about the gay right to spread GRID via bathhouses...

Because they don't deserve any attention. They deserve to be thrown off a boat in the middle of the ocean.

Great, another fundamentalist....why come to ATS? There are plenty of biggoted religious sites where you can state BS like this and then get patted on the back by other fundies and carry on why you know more about human behavioural science then everyone else.

Why don't you quote me in entirety or include the entire post or are you one of those flaming homosexuals that actually encourages this type of bevavior?

If you would have quoted me entirely you would have seen that I was being sarcastic as the other poster wanted to throw this guy overboard into the ocean for his VIEWS. If you feel the same way and you are a flaming homosexual I would like to put you through a meat grinder feet first for your views. See how that works? You start killing people for expressing their views and this is where it ends idiot...

Oh, and another point: I know a lot of gay guys who grew up in the church. After being told for the upteenth time how wrong and evil and absolutely excluded from heaven they were, they left the church, angry and rejected, feeling excluded from the family they'd grown up in, and generally went out and went to the other extreme, with an attitude of "well I'm going to hell anyway, I may as well make a good job of it".

www.biblegateway.com...:6&version=NIV

Matthew 18:6 (New International Version)

But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

By pushing them out the door and telling them God hates them, I believe the church accepts the blame (in God's eyes) for anything they do after that point.

Originally posted by northof8
Why don't you quote me in entirety or include the entire post or are you one of those flaming homosexuals that actually encourages this type of bevavior?

No, Im straight....but even if i was gay, why would that be an issue? i dont encourage any behaviour which puts one above another based on sexual orientation unlike your fundamentalistic views.

If you would have quoted me entirely you would have seen that I was being sarcastic as the other poster wanted to throw this guy overboard into the ocean for his VIEWS.

I saw that, I dont think its right, but you stooped to his level

If you feel the same way and you are a flaming homosexual I would like to put you through a meat grinder feet first for your views. See how that works? You start killing people for expressing their views and this is where it ends idiot...

I dont feel the same way at all, and like I mentioned above, I didnt say it was right.

Who cares what these weird, superstitious old men think. Really, they have been repeating the same crap for centuries just leave them alone and let them bathe in ancient,non nonsensical scriptures till their hearts content. They are useless and tedious, it's about time humanity realises that and acts accordingly. Im pretty sure most homosexuals don't care for their dark age opinions in the 21st century, netiher should the rest of the us.

There is no hierarchy of sin in the Bible. These are the prejudices of homophobes being impressed upon others. Those that sit here and lambaste the issue from a Biblical perspective either do not read dead languages and are not a study of history or they are just individuals who like to hide out under bridges waiting for the goats to cross over.

Either way, their opinion means little to me.

Originally posted by Solomons
Who cares what these weird, superstitious old men think. Really, they have been repeating the same crap for centuries just leave them alone and let them bathe in ancient,non nonsensical scriptures till their hearts content. They are useless and tedious, it's about time humanity realises that and acts accordingly. Im pretty sure most homosexuals don't care for their dark age opinions in the 21st century, netiher should the rest of the us.

I agree with you up to a point, however many people have been greatly harmed and ended up living a lifestyle they would not have chosen as a result of these teachings. You and I may have the perspective of seeing them for what they are, but many young men and women who grow up realising they are christians and gays live a life of torment and self hatred (believe me, I know). Statements like this guy have made are not ignored, they deeply wound a lot of people who want nothing more than the freedom to worship God in the presence of their church family, and to also fall in love and settle down with who they choose to.

Click here for more information.

Religion frustrates me!

Has anyone come back from heaven or hell?

How do we know they exist...?

Oh it is written in an ancient book... Of course we got to believe in that!!

Now they are making up new commandments or what ever...

Most of my familly are catholic and it makes me cringe when they talk about it to me...


[edit on 3-12-2009 by Wolf ]

Originally posted by A Fortiori
There is no hierarchy of sin in the Bible. These are the prejudices of homophobes being impressed upon others. Those that sit here and lambaste the issue from a Biblical perspective either do not read dead languages and are not a study of history or they are just individuals who like to hide out under bridges waiting for the goats to cross over.

Either way, their opinion means little to me.

APPLAUSE

Best post in this thread yet

Although I don't believe in Heaven/Hell...

If the gays are destined to burn in hell for eternity, then why, WHY must we make their lives here on Earth a living hell?

And if gays are an abomination, and god made us in his image, does that make god gay too?

If god is real, he is an asshole, to be honest.

Originally posted by northof8
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

I stooped to his level but you decided to nail me?

Not buying it pal... Your response leads me to believe you take the side of homosexuals no matter what they say and jump on the first person that disagrees with their vile homosexual spew here on ATS.

Like I said, I dont condone it, Im just curious as to why you thought it was a smart idea to stoop to his level? For the record, if there was a homosexual as arrogant as you, thinking he's well above the rest of us, then no I wouldnt be taking his side

No, you are the hypocritical bigot and you have been outed as such. Might as well come out of the closet all the way... You can admit you are a bug chaser... You fit right in with the homosexual agenda here at ATS.

Like I said, Im straight. Why do you keep asking, do you want me to be gay? Are you secretly hiding your own personal homosexual tendencies behind your religion, and the only way to cope with that is to label people who want equality as gay?

Whats the homosexual agenda? Something you made up to conform to your religion?

wow im not gay but the gay bashing on this site is over the top.

Originally posted by SuperSlovak
wow im not gay but the gay bashing on this site is over the top.

Wow I'm not _______ but the _________on this site is over the top.

What has happened to everyone? Can we not discuss any of the issues like adults?

Originally posted by Acidtastic
To the christians in the thread.

Is God wrong to have made me (and other gay people) this way? Because if God made me this way, there must have been some kind of intention behind it. As God is never wrong, are you calling God wrong for making people gay?

I'm not a God hater, before you say it, I'm a hater hater. I "hate" (feel sorry for, is more apt) those who use their own prejudices and present them as if it's Gods word. You lot crack me up. But then, you are also Gods will, so what do we do?

Have you ever considered that the intention he had was for you to learn to control your impulses? And not just you, or him, or that girl over there in the corner - but all of us.

We have to learn to master impulses or they will master us.

Gays 'will never go to heaven'

And neither will hateful, judgemental and abusive religious people who make it their life's work to ridicule and judge and bully anyone who isn't straight, Christian and perfect.

There is no hierarchy of sin in the Bible.

An interesting point, but only partially true, under the mosaic law there most certainly was, read the law and you will see it to be there. Jesus did away with the mosaic law, and so from that point forward you are correct.
Read 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 a practicing "drunkard" or a "thief" or even a "fornicator" is equally condemned as a practicing homosexual by God.

And yet people who condemn these other things aren't considered prejudiced.

After Jesus died for humanity all sin became equal, if gays aren't going to heaven there are even more in the other categories than them not going. Look at the list it is very extensive, the punishment for the other transgressions are equal to the punishment for homosexuality, many people don't believe it or even understand it.

9You know that wicked people will not inherit the kingdom of God, don't you? Stop deceiving yourselves! Sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunks, slanderers, and robbers will not inherit the kingdom of God. 11That is what some of you were! But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus the Messiah and by the Spirit of our God.

As christian I actually agree gays get picked on more than lets say a couple that just lives together unmarried and practice immorality.
Why because it seems more natural? But this is the human perspective.
So as a christian I see the double standard and prejudice from a different vantage point.

All major sin is equal to God regardless of what we personally think, as the scripture says.

And according to the bible thousands of gays that have died with Aids in the last 30 years, will receive a resurrection from death to life at God's appointed time.

Romans 6:7

7 For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin.

Acts 24:15

15Having [the same] hope in God which these themselves hold and look for, that there is to be a resurrection both of the righteous and the unrighteous (the just and the unjust).

So God forgives them and gives them another chance, they might not go to heaven but they will get a fresh start, just like any other sinner.

Breaking news:

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Originally posted by Wolf 
Religion frustrates me!

Has anyone come back from heaven or hell?

How do we know they exist...?

Yes.
There were no angels with flaming swords at the gates.
There were no gates at all, just open arms, love and understanding.

I doubt bigoted gay-haters will ever go there.
They would have to share it with those they hated, and have everyone see every dirty secret they'd ever had.

Do they ever sit in humble solitude, honestly looking at the shameful planks in their own eyes, weeping for the hatred they harbour, for the harm they have done and the good they have left undone?

I wonder how many people, proudly certain only they and their kind will go to heaven, ever stop to consider the fact that there are no secrets there. Everyone knows everything.

It is not their self portraits people will see in eternity.