Gays 'will never go to heaven'

Originally posted by torturekiller2006
I believe that if "God" truly loves all, He should forgive all! If indeed, homosexuality is a sin.

And indeed he has. He made the ultimate sacrifice to do just that. With one stipulation: You must accept his sacrifice and forgiveness. Pretty tough, I know. It's amazing though what our own foolish Pride can do to us.

Originally posted by torturekiller2006
I believe that if "God" truly loves all, He should forgive all! If indeed, homosexuality is a sin.

Homosexuality is not the sin. The sin is living in a way that is other than the way God created you. That does not mean that men should be with women, and vice versa, but rather that once you know yourself, to exist as yourself. To do otherwise is the sin.

So does this mean that child molesters, rapists, and murderers should live as they believe they were created and to do otherwise would be sin?

last time i participated in a gay thread i was so dissapointed that i haven t really been back to ats yet

moreover consider its a long time since then.... early summer

anyhow i am not anti gay.... just pro straight and i would appreciate everybody minded his bussiness more and gayness interfered less with us so we can interfere less with it

apart from that gays miy also go to heaven depending on the scales of life but mostly of their own soul

Straight regards

Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragan said that while the Church regarded homosexuality as an "insult to God",

So God hates gay people eh? he must if he won't allow them into "heaven." When did the Cardinal talk to God to find this out? Surely he had to have talked to him about it to know for sure...or...could it have been...somehow...his own interpretation of bible scriptures to support his own beliefs?

Hmmm....

[edit on 7-12-2009 by David9176]

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
So does this mean that child molesters, rapists, and murderers should live as they believe they were created and to do otherwise would be sin?

Our laws are to promote and assure the public safety...nothing more.

Since these certainly subject the public to bodily harm it cannot be allowed. Actually it has been decided that in a civilized society these will not be allowed in order to protect the public from harm. They are not laws created simply to protect the Public's sensibilities. We are careful to deem such laws unconstitutional.
If we showed the same zero tolerance attitude toward assaults on our SENSIBILITIES we would sacrifice a great deal, if not all, of our proud American culture.
Funny how Republican/Conservatives are the biggest voice against gay marriage on the one hand, yet claim to defend Constitutional rights on the other. You can't have it both ways.

Did they happen to mention diddling with altar boys will never get you to heaven??




I was born a Catholic but i KNOW i will NOT die a Catholic.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
So does this mean that child molesters, rapists, and murderers should live as they believe they were created and to do otherwise would be sin?

Are you comparing homosexuality to murder?

Those described acts are a direct attack on God's creations. To attack and attempt to destroy that which God created is an insult to God as well. Doing so is an assumption of knowing better than God himself. I kill you because I don't want you to exist. God wants you to exist (otherwise you wouldn't be here), therefore I know better than God. It is an attempt to usurp power, and is in itself a prideful act. We can compare it to St. Augustine's allegory of the pears. (minimal summery: As a child, St. Augustine and his friends go to a neighbor's property and steals pears from a tree. The pears are poor quality, and the children have better and more abundant pears of their own. But they did it just to get the thrill of going against the rule of law [God's law]. It was an act of pride that Augustine later took to be an attempt to usurp a power that only God should have, as all prideful acts are.)
In your examples, those acts are, again, attempts at the individual attempting to take power that only God has. The same can be applied to those who vilify homosexuals.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by Mr Poopra
I'm so tired of non-Christians trying to change OUR rule book to suit them. It is what it is. This "happy go lucky, anything goes, i'm ok the way i am and so are you don't worry everyone is going to Heaven" crap is why we have this level of moral decay in this country.

And Im so tired of christians thinking they are more higher and mighty then anyone else, wether it be Atheist, Muslim, Buddhist or any other religion. As I said, BS like this belongs in church where you christians can share your ignorant views, not in public. And it is discrimination, here's a definition

Definition:

1. treating people differently through prejudice: unfair treatment of one person or group, usually because of prejudice about race, ethnicity, age, religion, or gender


2. ability to notice and value quality: the ability to appreciate good quality or taste


3. awareness of subtle differentiation: the ability to notice subtle differences

Pay attention to definition number 3.....obviously he is concerned that people dont have the same belief as him, speaking out against them and speculating that these people (regardless of religion) arent "good" enough to get into heaven, is a form of discrimination.

And to your other comments, I bet you wouldnt let any openly gay person into your church, I also reckon you dont know any gay people and have never sat down and talked with the, and you also probably believe that being homosexual is a choice, not something that one has no control over....am I correct?

Your post is discriminating towards Christians.
2nd line.

Originally posted by Aaron_Justin

Your post is discriminating towards Christians.
2nd line.

Which is why the best, and only way to debate with a Christian is to base the concepts on universally Christian ideals. Otherwise, no minds are changed and we get polarized populations attacking and not listening.

There's a lot of speculation about what exactly comprises 'heaven', if in fact it exists at all


but be assured, gays will go there, along with everyone else

To suggest otherwise is the very height of ignorance


After all, God created all, supposedly

Which means he created gays ... AS gays


Therefore, God and not gays, is responsible for the creation of gays


And I'm pretty sure that if God exists as a sentient entity, then he/she/it will step up to the plate and assume responsibility

IN ADDITION TO owing gays a LOT of sincere apologies !



To suggest anything else is testimony to the gross ignorance .. incredible, indescribable ignorance and arrogance .. of those who claim otherwise


Now why not turn all this energy and time to some SELF improvement


you know ... LOG in your own eye

compared with the mere splinters in others eyes





.

Originally posted by rusethorcain

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
So does this mean that child molesters, rapists, and murderers should live as they believe they were created and to do otherwise would be sin?

Our laws are to promote and assure the public safety...nothing more.

Since these certainly subject the public to bodily harm it cannot be allowed. Actually it has been decided that in a civilized society these will not be allowed in order to protect the public from harm. They are not laws created simply to protect the Public's sensibilities. We are careful to deem such laws unconstitutional.
If we showed the same zero tolerance attitude toward assaults on our SENSIBILITIES we would sacrifice a great deal, if not all, of our proud American culture.

Funny how Republican/Conservatives are the biggest voice against gay marriage on the one hand, yet claim to defend Constitutional rights on the other. You can't have it both ways.

This is also subjecting the public to bodily harm. The human body simply was not 'designed' to have anal intercourse. It does damage, plain and simple.

Our 'Proud American Culture' has until very recently not tolerated this activity. Just as adultery and prostitution have not been welcomed with open arms. So if deviant behaviour is to be our hallmark then it's no wonder we have the troubles we do.

Oh, and I'm not a republican conservative, so you can have your label back!

I really do not have an issue with anyone's sexual orientation because really I dont care either way what someone chooses as it doesn't affect me. I am heterosexual and while I dont get the whole homo thing, its your theme park, ride the ride you want to.

The thing here is that through freedom of religion this gentleman is allowed to say what he does and he is not discriminating in my opinion because the foundation of his religion states that being gay is a sin. Sin stops you from entering heaven. He follows that up by saying that we should not judge or discriminate or treat badly those that are following that lifestyle. Catholic church has even been allowing gay clergy. I mean how much more tolerance do you want from a religion that outright forbids being gay?

I can't go buy stuff at wal-mart if I do not have a shirt on. They say, no shirt, no shoes, no service. Do they discriminate against me by not allowing me entrance? No, its their place, their rules.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar

This is also subjecting the public to bodily harm. The human body simply was not 'designed' to have anal intercourse. It does damage, plain and simple.

So do tattoos, piercings and playing sports. The body wasn't 'designed' to do a lot of things, but we're not going to take away the right of people to do them.

Our 'Proud American Culture' has until very recently not tolerated this activity.

And until very recently our 'Proud American Culture' hadn't tolerated the concept of equality based on skin color. I'd suggest that we not use our nation's historical morality as a basis for proper behavior.


I assume you are a Christian, right? If so, then can we agree that God knows what he's doing? That is, he knows how to build a person better than you or I do.

If that is true, then shouldn't we assume that our personal beliefs about what is right for us might not be the absolute belief for what God deems right for everyone, lest we are prideful enough to assume we know better than God's will.

reply to post by SorensDespair


As I've stated before, I really could care less what these people are doing to themselves. I'm selfish that way I guess. The only thing I'm suggesting is that we all have a 'choice' and we all have forgiveness available to us. Forgiveness first, the rest follows naturally from what I've discovered.

This incessant need to make ones self acceptable by blaming God is disingenuous. Just as society has rules against prostitution, polygamy, sex with children under a certain age. These are all moral laws based on Biblical Law. People who break those laws would probably blame God too. Does that mean that we buy it?

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


How can one blame God? Please explain that to me a little more clearly. If God is omniscient and omnipotent, then we can't apply blame. What he did, he did right.

As for the choice, we do have a choice, but there's only one correct choice, and that is to rest transparently in God, and have faith that he created us as we were intended to be. Any choice past that is a sin against God.

Now, the big question is, do we know God's absolute will? Do we dare suppose we do based on a few lines of scripture?

reply to post by SorensDespair


So if someones a murderer, then he created them that way and he did right? That's what I mean. He didn't create a murderer, he created a man with a choice. The man then made a bad choice. So if the man then says 'God created me this way, so I had no choice', then I'm going to call BS on him.

Scripture is what He's given us. Sorry if you don't like that.

I for one truly find religion a waste of ones time. You shouldn't need an overpaid jacka$$ to tell you how to live your life from behinda golden podium. Also, people are who they are. And in MOST cases the wiring is what it is right outta the gate. and if it is a fact that we are all gods creatures then a gay or lesbian person is in that same category according to GOD.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
reply to post by SorensDespair

 

So if someones a murderer, then he created them that way and he did right? That's what I mean. He didn't create a murderer, he created a man with a choice. The man then made a bad choice. So if the man then says 'God created me this way, so I had no choice', then I'm going to call BS on him.

Scripture is what He's given us. Sorry if you don't like that.

He gave us much more than just scripture. He gave us our self. Scripture only goes so far, and needs to be taken in historical context. That is what it means to rest transparently in him. The murderer analogy is a bad one, and I addressed it in an earlier post.

Unfortunately for those who judge, no one person can judge the self of another. The sin exists between a person and God. And the only sin is to not be the self that God created, and to not appreciate the self that God created in others (re: the murder analogy and all other judgments of the worth of others).

reply to post by December_Rain

Again it's not the religion's fault. It's these people who are misrepresenting the religion as per the books/bible. There are bad apples in every religion but that does not mean the religion is bad.

You are saying this to a group who dosn't want to hear it.

Or for the matter anything that keeps from throwing it all on the fire.

That is bigotry.