Gays 'will never go to heaven'

Originally posted by Bunken Drum
reply to post by blueorder

 

I'm not sure if you are categorising my use of "crackpots" as "hate-speech" or not. Just in case anyone thinks it is tho, allow me to demonstrate the difference:
"f#kin deluded proselytisers of fear & ignorance, amounting to nothing short of the scum of the earth"
- now that would be hate-speech. My own view is that there's no need for the swearing or strong insult, however commonly used, mildly perjorative nouns, like crackpot, indicate merely heartfelt disagreement & possibly laziness in not bothering to address specific ideas or actions but just going straight for the person. To the latter: guilty as charged.

nah, wouldn't be a fan of using terms such as "hate speech", smacks of liberal/left thought control that sort of term.

All I mean is believing in a faith does not make one a crackpot

Originally posted by Harlequinall those with such deeply entrenched beleieves are one of the same , whether they stand in a pulpit on a sunday preaching fire and brimstone to the `heathens` or whether they wear a turban and run around screaming ` allah akbar`and blowing up the world in the name if there faith

raving loonies the lot of `em

that is some relativism, that nice chap who goes to his church, prays and just goes about his business is the same as someone who blows up the world


And you say they are the "loonies"< some irony there

Hi ya doing...well to start with i am not gay at all im srtaight as an arrow , love the females.... but who is one to say your not going to heaven maybe overall the one saying that in this world is not going to heaven just the other way around. Im a muslim but not to religous im more spiratual. i dont practice my religion as many others do. No one on this planet knows ones inner self except that individual itself to judge if there are or not going to heaven. Am i able to explain myself i dont know if ya will understand me but thats what i think....People just love to jugde one another in this world. It is what it is people.

reply to post by blueorder


well - look at the article the OP posted - all hellfire and brimstone (and come to think of it - the US preaches and faith healers who also spout the same thing)

you have fanatics in all religions - the `good` protestants (Orange Volunteers) who attack catholic`s and there churches , and the likes of the `army of God` and the `lambs of God` - fanatical groups in the USA - responsible for a large number of abortion clinic bombings , and the attack on the Centennial Olympic Park in 1996.

so , are the fanatical preaches in the pulpits really that much different from the fanatica mullahs?

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by blueorder

 

well - look at the article the OP posted - all hellfire and brimstone (and come to think of it - the US preaches and faith healers who also spout the same thing)

you have fanatics in all religions - the `good` protestants (Orange Volunteers) who attack catholic`s and there churches , and the likes of the `army of God` and the `lambs of God` - fanatical groups in the USA - responsible for a large number of abortion clinic bombings , and the attack on the Centennial Olympic Park in 1996.

so , are the fanatical preaches in the pulpits really that much different from the fanatica mullahs?

Couple of points, you said all who hold deeply entrenched ridiculous views are the same- so someone who is deeply religious and spends his life harming no one but living in a deeply religious manner is the same as someone who blows up the world? NO, they are not the same


The "Orange Volunteers"- ffs what, I live in NI, yer man Harbinson is known as a British military agent. The conflict here is about nationality, with religon used as a community marker- this is the ultimate relativist fail- people use the NI example as some sort of "Islam and Christianity are all the same"- tiny wee country in Western Europe which was fought over nationality.


THere is no perfection in anything with man, but there is better and worse, and modern Christianity is much better than Islam, when looked at as whole- Christianity of 500 years ago could reasonably be compared with Islam, but not now, the odd nutjob on the Christian side notwithstanding

I guess it would matter if it mattered! Heaven? Who's Heaven, and what Heaven?

God? Many of us have evolved way beyond religion, and are therefore free from the oppression it once caused in our lives.

Even so, my God loves Gays and loves sex and love in all it's infinite forms. Maybe there are planets that are all same sex....and can still reproduce.

Originally posted by dpmduran
I guess it would matter if it mattered! Heaven? Who's Heaven, and what Heaven?

God? Many of us have evolved way beyond religion, and are therefore free from the oppression it once caused in our lives.

Even so, my God loves Gays and loves sex and love in all it's infinite forms. Maybe there are planets that are all same sex....and can still reproduce.

there are many without religion who are in chains, and similarly many in religion who are free, that is the human condition, and will never change

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

He can say anything he wants behind church doors, or to a group of people that believe the sam thing, but when he comes out in public, preachings his own religious banter, which also happens to be discriminatory, then he makes it everyones problem. That is the issue I have with the idiot

Isn't that the truth? I can't understand why he just can't keep it behind closed doors.





Just sayin'. I just ignore both sides. Neither view causes me any harm, whatsoever.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by WTFover]

[edit on 7-12-2009 by WTFover]

Originally posted by WTFover
Isn't that the truth? I can't underatand why they just can't keep it behind closed doors.

Thing is though, in terms of the "public realm", he only made reference to spiritual consequences, not that he belived that homosexuals should be discriminated on earth- are we crowbarring discrimination and "hate" thoughts into the afterlife now

reply to post by blueorder


I think you might have misunderstood my post, or I didn't make it clear. I was just bring attention to Oz's statement that he wanted the church to keep their views "behind church doors", being just a tad one-sided. See my last line, below the videos.

Originally posted by WTFover

I think you might have misunderstood my post, or I didn't make it clear. I was just bring attention to Oz's statement that he wanted the church to keep their views "behind church doors", being just a tad one-sided. See my last line, below the videos.

Apologies, yes, think I misunderstood you

If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

How hot is hell


now do the math is there enough sin in the world to keep the hell buissnes going...

reply to post by blueorder

All I mean is believing in a faith does not make one a crackpot

I disagree & will now prove my point.
Both the religious & the merely spiritual believe that the divine is ineffable. Thus all statements about the nature or will of a god are, by definition, at best intellectally dishonest; all statements of fact concerning said are, by definition, lies; & all laws invoking such dishonesty as basis for authority are, by definition, without merit. Ergo, believing in such a doctrine does indeed make one a crackpot.

Originally posted by Bunken Drum
Both the religious & the merely spiritual believe that the divine is ineffable. Thus all statements about the nature or will of a god are, by definition, at best intellectally dishonest; all statements of fact concerning said are, by definition, lies; & all laws invoking such dishonesty as basis for authority are, by definition, without merit. Ergo, believing in such a doctrine does indeed make one a crackpot.

No sale-

a) Most of us are not "literalists", but more use it as a guide
b) The spiritual life may be ineffable, but the physical world is not, so even if you were a literalist, there is no contradiction in thinking your God can instruct you in terms that you understand it with respect to your earthly existence (without you understanding the afterlife, as for obvious reasons, you have not experienced it


I admire your faith though

reply to post by blueorderNo sale here either...
a) Whether you're a literalist or not, if you follow the basic tenets of a religion, you are accepting someone else's description of the ineffable, which by the internal logic of religion cannot be other than conjecture, for this reason:
b) If you accept that you cannot know the spiritual divinity here on earth, ie it is ineffable, then you must accept that you cannot know what instructions about earthly life have come from the divine, what is inspired by mental illness & what is just lies.
Thus I submit I was right about "crackpot" in the 1st place.
My own faith waxes & wanes. Its based around a hodge-podge of different pagan ideas & bits of philosophy. I made it up to fit my own spiritual experiences, basically, & its constantly being revised in the light of new ones. Trying to practice what I preach, so to speak...

We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes. – Gene Roddenberry

Originally posted by lifecitizen
We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes. – Gene Roddenberry

There was no mistake made by God. The only way to overcome free will is with force. God has allowed us the use of free will to make a choice and that choice will be honored. If you don't want to be in His presence then you won't.

Thus, I believe that atheists are absolutely right as to their fate. They will be as if they had never been. Their lives are as meaningless now as they will be in fifty or a hundred years. There will be no memory of them whatsoever. Utterly pointless to have ever lived. Pretty depressing. That's why I say 'Choose Life'.

I believe that if "God" truly loves all, He should forgive all! If indeed, homosexuality is a sin.

i recall someone saying that hell was ho hot but heaven was hotter,
above degreze bearable-...

hell is hot but heaven is hotter m,..... etc etc



???

Those who rationalize and defend Christianity are its worst defamers. Its greatest weapon is its own paradoxical nature. To defend something (like a child) is at its core to accept that it can't stand on its own. Don't bother trying to rationalize it. It stands on faith alone.

That said, if one is truly Christian, then they must accept the infallibility of God. He does what he does, and every creation is created correctly. No one is made 'wrong'. The biggest sin one can commit is to take his creation and a try to change it into something that it is not. It's the nature of my UserName.

So, for those who feel that they know better than God's method of creation, they themselves are insulting the God they claim to defend.