"Alternative Substances Forum" -- Conspiracy issues related to drugs, but NOT recreational/persona

It seems to me that there hasn't been a good John Titor hoax, or a good Drones Hoax lately.

Perfect way to create activity.

Glad to see this opened up. I agree that it would make for one hell of a stimulus packet. I love hemp and hemp products myself, they are truly the real green future.

As a new member I have to ask if the ATS policy forbids relating use of alternate substances used in religious or cultural traditions not related to personal experience?

Also, since I've had significant side effects from traditional pharma drugs, I'm looking to success others have had in using alternate substances or supplements to take care of things like blood pressure, etc. How would anyone provide suggestions here except through personal experience? Does pharma and the Govt. have such deep reach that we dare not even discuss specifics here?

I do understand the ATS policy of not mentioning the "personal" illegal useage, but is it still okay to relate that pot has helped cancer patients cope and maintain an appetite while battling cancers effects?

[edit on 29-11-2009 by thepixelpusher]

Oh no, actually I just visited ats for one of the first times in a long time, and have to admit I hated the drug bs on rats and now its going to take over the main boards too. I am no stick in the mud but this is going to be a disaster... Bummer.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by antar]

reply to post by antar


We need an "Omit alternative substances" next to the swine flu and US politics.

Originally posted by william.gauncents
It seems to me that there hasn't been a good John Titor hoax, or a good Drones Hoax lately.

Perfect way to create activity.

Speaking of Drones, you do realize that they are now using drones to deliver quantity's across the border. Its the new age of logistics in the world of Drug Trafficking. Too small to be detected by radar, if and when interception does occur there is no pilot, therefore there is no prosecution.

But i guess this has not been made public yet or has it ?

Is it ok to talk about legal drugs and their affects on society? Such as pain killers, anti-depressants, multi-vitamins, alternative medicine made of legal, yet, strange materials?

Originally posted by antar
Oh no, actually I just visited ats for one of the first times in a long time, and have to admit I hated the drug bs on rats and now its going to take over the main boards too. I am no stick in the mud but this is going to be a disaster... Bummer.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by antar]

This new forum being specially dedicated, and for members only. The way I understand it, you could simply un-favorite alternative substance forum and you would not even see it, thus not be bothered by the content, while you can still enjoy all the other parts of ATS

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Our strict rules against the discussion of personal recreational use of drugs -- including naturally-occuring mind-altering substances -- is still in place. Any member discussing, promoting, or otherwise alluding to personal recreational use of drugs in this forum will be immediately banned from ATS without warning.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by SkepticOverlord]

Does it then follow that any substance, including food, that if discussed as possibly causing any sort of phenomenological alteration in one's personal cognitive state, for the purpose of recreation, cause the member discussing it to be banned? I would conclude from this, then, that if someone state's something like "I like to eat chocolate because while I'm eating it I feel blissful" would be violating the above strict rule because the subjects cognitive state is altered and the subject seems to be consuming the substance chocolate for recreational purposes; to feel blissful. After all it is always with our mind that we "feel" and therefore any substance we consume that affects how we feel would be a substance that is altering our minds.

While I realize that the above example was probably never intended to be included in the strict rules against personal use discussion, I think things could get tricky in any effort to ontologically delineate between discussion of illicit personal use and non-illicit personal use. For instance, if someone discussing some herb that after consuming states "I felt good after taking it, but not a narcotic good, just a refreshing and healthy good feeling", would that be a violation? As I understand it, researchers that go to remote locations looking for herbal medicines ask locals if there are any local herbs that make them feel a 'refreshing healthy good' after consuming, because it can be an indication that that herb is an immune enhancer.

Additionally, some herbs seem to affect one's dreams while asleep. Would any discussion of an herb, or food such as a big meal before going to bed, on one's dreams be considered discussion of mind altering substances for recreational purposes? I think some people consider dreaming a form of recreation and any herb that effects that dreaming state could then be considered a mind altering substance that is taken for recreational purposes. Another gray area might be personal mention of any positive experience with any given herb or food as an aphrodisiac, as there seems to be some element of recreational mind alteration going on there as well.

Glad to see things are not becoming as strict on here.. I remember I got banned one time for discussing drugs in a thread
Time to loosen up a bit ATS !

If I may be so bold as to make one small observation ...

We ask new members when they first join ATS to generate at least 20 posts before they are allowed to start threads. This of course is both to allow them to get the lay of ATS land, and to protect the board from folks who wish to register just to engage in their spam/troll/aggression agendas.

It stands to reason, at least to me, that at least the same minimal level of ATS experience should be expected for anyone posting on this forum. The reasoning would be bifold ... 1. It would actually give new members the opportunity to familiarize themselves with the stringent rules of the forum thus protecting them against unintentional transgressions, and 2. it would address the register and burn folks.

Just a thought.

From a Shamanic standpoint...

There are rare esoteric substances out there almost unknown to all but a select few practitioners. They are so rare; there is no classification for them to even be considered illegal.

Their effects are profound. How can they be discussed without personal experiences being relayed? The old....

"I once knew a guy" or "there is a rumor going round that"............

[edit on 30-11-2009 by whaaa]

"w0On! w0Oon!" The mutants were loosed (almost)!



Thank you to whoever on the staff and administration made it happen. Turn it up!



(Post scriptum...

I notice that if a staff has been allocated, the team has not yet been listed at the bottom of the page?)

While I applaud the earnest efforts of the owners here to provide the membership with a forum to express the very real and very viable conspiratorial aspects of the drug trade, sadly it will once again be the membership that will ruin it for everyone.

I don't think the membership that would participate in these topics can do so without them resorting to complete foolishness or worse.

I do think some could appreciate this topic as it has been given and the serious aspects of this issue but many many more would use such a forum for low brow stupidity.

Well you could've knocked me over with a feather when I read that U2U. Didn't expect to see another go at this quite so soon. Here's hoping the masses can discuss the conspiracies and refrain from ruining it for the rest of us again.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Just so you know, herbs and drugs are different, have different definitions, bear few similarities, and cannot be grouped together in any rational way. Normal international culture, of course, is known and accepted to be irrational and is therefore not a basis for opinion or policy.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Finally!!

Thank you for another great addition to this site

It is strange (or is it) that "The American Drug War The Last White Hope" was recently shown on Show time spilling the beans and naming the major players in corporate America and high places in government..... Not everyone that uses or has used marijuana have done so as a recreational pursuit of getting buzzed and a great number of them were or are using it as a medication for chronic pain and numerous other physical and psychological conditions to avoid being prescribed opiates, psychotropics, and other more harmful and addictive products of the pharmaceutical corporations..... For chronic pain highly addictive and physically debilitating opiates like morphine, oxycodone and codeine are prescribed by the Veterans Administration to people that have for years used marijuana as a way of dealing with pain and still be functional which is a difficult task for anyone taking a great deal of the products that doctors are prescribing..... There is something morally wrong with just that alone but then there is the number of private correctional facilities springing up and officers of the law and judicial systems that are taking money for imposing the maximum sentences allowed to young first time offenders that perform what amounts to slave labor producing products that are contracted by the corporate owned prisons that investors purchase stock in based on the amount of prisoners in the facilities.... These are young people that are labelled as felons and denied rights that all other citizens take for granted because they chose to use a substance that there has never been a reported instance of one person dying from using while tobacco and alcohol that everyone knows of people that have died from using, is legal.... At the same time the government is spending tens of billions of dollars on the war against drugs, they are also allowing the ultra rich of the world to prosper by financing and taking profits from both those that are importing and selling illicit drugs that are far worse than marijuana, which is listed as a narcotic which it it isn't but makes it a profitable product because it is listed as such....There is truly a conspiracy going on in regards to the marijuana laws and like so many other conspiracies you must follow the money.

I'm cautiously optimistic about this new move That said, given that transgression will result in immediate banning, I'm concerned about the vagueness of alluding to personal use & just what could be construed as advocating recreational use.
Personally, I have moral & philosophical objections to prohibition, regardless of the reasons adults might choose to use a substance, & my position is at the heart of my thinking on many of the conspiratorial aspects of the drugs debate. Can I discuss that?
I ask because, whilst in my own mind I don't feel like I am advocating anything, just decrying something else, the distinction seems to get, sometimes seemingly willfully, misunderstood. You only have to look to many of the religious threads tho to see that many members immediately assume that criticism of a thing automatically means we support the perceived opposite, ie criticise religion; you're a christ-hating atheist...

reply to post by Bunken Drum

I'm cautiously optimistic about this new move That said, given that transgression will result in immediate banning, I'm concerned about the vagueness of alluding to personal use & just what could be construed as advocating recreational use.

Probably would be best to err on the side of caution. I guess it could also be said this way... Would you say it to a cop or judge? If the answer is no, then you probably won't want to say it in this forum either.

Of course this probably will go on for a few pages about exactly what can and can't be said, and that is the problem with this topic of forum, there will be those that for some god knows reason, will push it beyond the point of reason, get themselves banned, and others will cry foul and it will be a drama fest once again.