Apollo 12's Covert EVA , Are E.T.'s the reason for the Secrecy ?

possible UFO in picture # AS12-48-7101









high resolution image
history.nasa.gov...

reply to post by easynow

did you even bother to click on the link and see what it say's ?

Saw that two years aor so, ago. Went 'round and 'round with zorgon about it.

Look...colors in photographs almost always look different, for many, many different reasons.

Sheesh...even in real life! I had a desktop background image somewhere, once. Photo of desert, on Earth. Was bloody orangey-red. The sand, I mean. IN the photo. Even I know that the color was the result of the angle of sunlight, height of sun in sky, exposure settings, film, etc, etc, etc. I didn't run around thinking that there was actually a real desert on Earth that exact same blood-red color!!!!

reply to post by ArMaP


thanks ArMaP for keeping count i think

have you ever seen any of the photos or video they used on the simulator ?
yes i meant pics or video of the surface of the model while it was being used.






reply to post by weedplanter

Saw that two years aor so, ago. Went 'round and 'round with zorgon about it.

since you were talking to Zorgon about it and didn't link us to the conversation we will just assume you lost the argument.



[edit on 9-12-2009 by easynow]

reply to post by easynow

What do you mean by photos used in the simulator? The ones used to create the model?

I have never seen videos of it being used, but I never searched for them either.

Originally posted by easynow
have you ever seen any of the photos or video they used on the simulator?

Here are a few images taken through the window of the Apollo LMS simulator, showing the cockpit view of the lunar surface model that was provided to the astronauts for the practicing of approach/descent procedures. The view the Commander saw in the LMS simulator gave him a 110-degree field-of-view from the cockpit, with the simulated scene being displayed via what was called the Infinity Optical Display System, an image projection system that utilized optical reflective techniques to create the desired display of the simulated lurain features in the spacecraft windows. These particular examples here are showing the simulated view of the lunar surface during LMS approach into the Apollo 15 LZ at Hadley Rille, starting at 5000 feet above the surface, then 3000 feet, 1000 feet, and 500 feet. Sorry, but for some reason, it will not let me display the images directly in the post using the img tags.

LMS - view from 5000 feet
i276.photobucket.com...

LMS - view from 3000 feet
i276.photobucket.com...

LMS - view from 1000 feet
i276.photobucket.com...

LMS - view from 500 feet
i276.photobucket.com...

I also have some good full motion video footage here showing the LMS simulator and the Infinity Optical Display System in action. I can upload that as well if anyone is interested in seeing it.

When it came to simulating rendezvous, docking and stationkeeping procedures during Apollo, NASA typically represented the target vehicle using scale models built around a three-gimbal control system that provided axis-change capability for the target. The visual data was fed to the crew via a CCTV system, with the LMS Simulator relying on a one-eightieth scale model of the CSM for longer range rendezvous procedures, and then a one-twentieth scale high-detail model for the more up close and personal stationkeeping stuff. Range-changes and closure/departure rates were simulated using several techniques, including physically moving the camera system towards or away from the target model on a track&carriage assembly, as well as exploiting a "raster shrinking" technique that supplemented the physical movement of the camera.

During Project Gemini, NASA actually experimented with a digital display system for rendezvous training that was called the EIG - "Electronic Image Generator" - which worked in conjunction with the Infinity Optical Display System to provide a basic 3-D computer-generated model of the target vehicle on the CRT for the Commander to take his visual cues from. The EIG was also used during the Apollo Program in the LMPS (Lunar Module Procedures Simulator) and the CMPS (Command Module Procedures Simulator), with those two sims both running off the same computer and filmstrip display system. There were actually 11 different simulators used during the Apollo program to train the astronauts, and the visual display techniques employed in those simulators really was pretty darn impressive, and for the most part the sims earned high praise from the astronauts. NASA's simulation capability evolved very quickly during the late-1960s and early-1970s, with significant improvements in the visual display systems - particularly when it came to image brightness capability of the IODS projectors - being updated throughout the course of the Apollo Program. All that simulation tech developed for the public space programs was obviously exploited by the DoD as well, using it to train crews in their classified space program operations, as well as modifying the tech for inter-atmospheric flight simulation development as well. Very cool stuff, and definitely a very interesting topic to read up on!

Cheers gang,
LC

Originally posted by LunaCognita
I also have some good full motion video footage here showing the LMS simulator and the Infinity Optical Display System in action. I can upload that as well if anyone is interested in seeing it.

I think many people are interested, I know I am.

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by easynow

have you ever seen any of the photos or video they used on the simulator ?
yes i meant pics or video of the surface of the model while it was being used.

Hey mate,

Here ya go - Charlie Duke and John Young on the simulator:




*Look at the screen, it looks just like a lunar landing.... Just like it.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by LunaCognita
I also have some good full motion video footage here showing the LMS simulator and the Infinity Optical Display System in action. I can upload that as well if anyone is interested in seeing it.

I think many people are interested, I know I am.

Thanks in advance.

Here ya go ArMaP. No prob my friend. This particular video clip is not actually from the Apollo LMS simulator though, so i have to apologize for that. That LMS clip must be on my old hard drive, so I am gonna have to do some digging for it. This particular video here is similar however, and was shot through the window of the "LOLA" Simulator - with LOLA being an acronym for Lunar Orbit & Landing Approach.

LOLA was the first lunar simulator developed by NASA/Langley during the early run-up to Apollo. They were putting the finishing touches on this simulator back while Project Mercury was still flying in fact - and the thing cost the taxpayers over 2 million bucks (a decent chunk of change today and an absurdly big sum back in the early 1960s for something like this!).

LOLA was the first real lunar mission simulator designed to provide the astronauts with a proper visual representation of the Moon as seen from up close in lunar orbit at various altitudes and viewing angles above the lurain. This particular clip shows LOLA's lunar surface rear-projection video display doing it's thing during a Lunar Orbit Insertion (LOI) simulation that was using what in LOLA-speak was called "Model #1" - a 20-foot-diameter spherical terrain model of the entire Moon that was mounted on a rotating base. Model #1 was the lowest-resolution of the four different lunar surface "models" that the LOLA simulator utilized, with a scale of one inch equaled to nine miles of lunar surface distance. Model #'s 2, 3 and 4 were essentially progressively scaled sectionals of the lunar surface in full relief that focused closer and closer onto a specific target area, down to a scale of about one inch equaled to just 200 feet on Model #4.

You can see in this clip that in addition to the lunar surface being modeled, the LOLA system also used a front-projected four-axis starfield generator that used a pair of starballs to attempt to create the desired celestial effects. This starfield generation system being used here was an early version, and it's capabilities became much improved upon in the later sim generations that followed LOLA.

Here is a Sendspace link to the LOLA video showing the simulated view of the lunar surface during LOI. It is a 50meg video file. The original video clip was originally about seven minutes long, so all I did here to this clip was just run it at 4x normal playback rate in order to shorten it's playing time without really sacrificing any of the eye candy.
www.sendspace.com...


And I may as well chuck this up here as well, as it was sitting in my "simulations" directory. This is a photo (another crappy quality one unfortunately) from 1967 showing the field-of-view that the Infinity Optical Display System was capable of providing in the simulators. In this case here, the simulator in question was the LM Dynamic Crew Procedures Trainer at NASA/JSC in Houston. It is worth taking note of the starfield that is also being displayed here in this simulation image. They certainly improved upon the capabilities of the starball projectors used here, and that was a vital requirement for the simulators to have since the astronauts were going to be required to program their CSM and LM navigation platforms using star sightings throughout the flight to calibrate the system and ensure they were on course (again, sorry, but for some reason it won't let me post the image up directly, so here is the link).

i276.photobucket.com...

Cheers,
LC

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Here ya go - Charlie Duke and John Young on the simulator:

*Look at the screen, it looks just like a lunar landing.... Just like it.

Cool video there Exuberant1! Nice find! What you are seeing there is not a LM landing simulator, but rather that footage is showing the SMK-23 Flight Simulator at the Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama. That particular version of the SMK-23 was modified by the Simulation Branch of MSFC so that it could be used by NASA as the Apollo Lunar Roving Vehicle (LRV) simulator.

The USAF had a LOT to do with the development of that particular training simulator, which was supposed to be used by NASA as a "driving" rather than a "flying" sim. The SMK-23 was most definitely a "flight" simulator though, and could simulate not only various LRV-type driving vehicles, but also could accurately mimic the flight characteristics of several different LFV (Lunar Flying Vehicle) variants in a lunar environment. The SMK-23 was in fact designed as a fully modular concept flight simulator, and it could be quickly modified to simulate a wide variety of different vehicle types - both grounded and flying versions. It was a pretty sweet little sim any way you look at it, and it also utilized the highest detail three-dimensional lunar surface terrain models made for the Apollo Program simulation efforts. The scale of the 3-D terrain models for Hadley Rille, the Descartes Highlands, and Taurus Littrow that were used in the SMK-23 LRV trainer were locked at only 1/150 scale. Projected through a 441 scan-line TV system, the SMK-23 offered some pretty impressive 3-D surface detail for the astronauts to visualize and practice on, though interestingly, while the system was fully color-capable, NASA elected to remove the color wheel from the camera and chose to simulate the Apollo LRV training in black&white.

Rather than using just a stationary terrain model with a motion-control camera system running on a track and carriage assembly to simulate a traverse, the SMK-23 was designed so that the camera system and the 3-D terrain model would both move in response to the astronaut control inputs.

The 3-D terrain model the SMK-23 simulator used was actually a 27-foot by 12-foot conveyor belt, so any X-axis inputs (usually north/south) made by the astronaut on the three-axis hand controller would cause the terrain model to scroll forward or back beneath the camera. While the conveyor belt provided the required longitudinal movement effects, the servo-driven camera system would move in response to any lateral pitch, roll and yaw inputs or simulated wheel suspension effects, and the camera would also raise or lower to simulate changes in altitude when in flight sim mode.

Here are a couple links to a pair of admittedly really crappy pictures of this simulator. The first pic (although you can't really see it very well at all) shows the SMK-23 conveyor belt terrain model, the camera, and the parallel Xenon lamps used for creating the desired sun/shadow effects. The terrain model and camera are mounted almost vertically at 88 degrees here - a step that was taken to keep the simulator's terrain sensor safeties that were mounted to the camera from giving inaccurate readings.

Crappy picture of the SMK-23 terrain conveyor belt and camera
i276.photobucket.com...

Even crappier picture showing the basic SMK-23 Simulator schematic
i276.photobucket.com...

Cheers!
LC

reply to post by LunaCognita


wow thanks LunaCognita for all the great info and pics and video !

here is the LM Dynamic Crew Procedures Trainer image. i guess that is supposed to be the Earth in that pic ?









here is the "LOLA" Simulator clip on youtube...




LMS simulator photo


if that simulator pic was in color i might have a hard time distinguishing it from the landing video...

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Here ya go - Charlie Duke and John Young on the simulator:

*Look at the screen, it looks just like a lunar landing.... Just like it.

thanks Exuberant1 for finding that video for us

that is impressive and isn't far from what we see in the landing videos. i wonder if there were any simulators that were top secret and never disclosed ? Disney studios ?

have you ever seen the movie "Operation Lune" ? (it's just a movie but who knows how much truth is there)

www.imdb.com...

Google Video Link

[edit on 10-12-2009 by easynow]

reply to post by Exuberant1

*Look at the screen, it looks just like a lunar landing.... Just like it.

I'm sorry...serious? That is just daft!

Really...if people can't tell the difference between a scale model and reality, then they are going to be fooled by every Hollywood movie ever made, too.

Just for my edification...there are videos of LM landings, at touchdown, where the blowing topsoil is quite obvious.

What did they do? Add it in CGI?? In 1969???

reply to post by LunaCognita


So, Luna...you call out Exuberant and correct his false assertions, IE the "Lunar Landing simulation" that he thinks looks "just like the real thing"...and just let it lie there?

He is wrong. Yet, gets stars and adulation?

I am sorry...but this is exactly the sort of nonsense that keeps perpetuating the "Moon Landing Hoax" crackpot notions out there.

I can only shake my head in awe at the ability of people to see what they are determined to see and simultaneously ignore the vast, vast mountains of evidence to the contrary.

ALL of these allegations of "fake this" or "coverup that" are just small beans, minor aberrations that people pounce on, like a dog with a bone...

It's like an airline passenger who can't be satisfied. You can have a perfect flight; on time, no turbulence, everything looking spot-on from a customer's perspective...and there's always one bloke who will complain because there weren't enough ice cubes in his cocktail glass.

The forest people!!!! You're looking at twigs and branches, and missing the big picture.

reply to post by easynow


Oh...my mistake...thought I was conversing with adults.

reply to post by weedplanter

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Saw that two years aor so, ago. Went 'round and 'round with zorgon about it.

since you were talking to Zorgon about it and didn't link us to the conversation we will just assume you lost the argument.

Firstly, it isn't about competition, except maybe in the petty minds of some.
That seems to be gradeschool-level behaviour.

Secondly, speaking of which: We are discussing as adults, here?!?!?

(

reply to post by weedplanter

)

I can alter the level of my discourse if it is deemed necessary.....



[edit on 10 December 2009 by weedwhacker]

NASA's Apollo DSE "Black Box" Transcripts - revealing the unscripted truth about the Moon & E.T.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by LunaCognita

 

ALL of these allegations of "fake this" or "coverup that" are just small beans, minor aberrations that people pounce on, like a dog with a bone...

you need help.....

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by easynow

 

I can alter the level of my discourse if it is deemed necessary.....

try eft....

reply to post by mcrom901


Apollo 11:

(excerpt from the book, "ROCKET MEN", by Craig Nelson. c2008)

GET 105:00:

'...The men disconnected themselves from the LM's ports and clipped on the harnesses of their personal life support system (PLSS) backpacks (batteries, radio, oxygen, exhaust, cooling water for the long johns, and a remote panel that was attached to the front of the suits for radio, cmaera, and ventilation control), lsung on their oxygen purge systems (which would b eused if the PLSSs failed), and screwed in the PLSS's ducts to their suits' various outlets. They stuffed their pockets with data cards, scissors, and penlights and finally attached their boots, overshoes, and gloves to the suits' various metal cuffs.

The EVA prep was supposed to take two hours; instead, it took three, due to problems with the cooling units and with depressurization, and due to the fact that two large men in bulky suits asnd enormous backpacks that stuck out a full foot were attempting to operate within the confines of a tiny spacecraft....

...GET 109:04:

...the LM had to be depressurised. This did not work well, as the venting was drastically slowed by the use of a biological filter to keep earthly germs from infecting the Moon. Buzz Aldrin: "We tried to pull the door open and it wouldn't come open. We thought, 'I wonder if we're really gonna get out or not?' It took an abnormal time for it to finally get to a point where we could pull on a fairly flimsy door. You don't want to rupture the door and leave yourself in a vacuum for the rest of the mission." '


Now....logic tells me that even the upper hatch, in the roof, would be a 'plug-type' door, that would open inwards. ANY sufficient remaing psi inside would make it difficult.

Since this thread alleges a 'SEVA' occured very soon after landing, then it will have to be made clear that the LM cabin could be evacuated faster than the Apollo 11 cabin.

DID they remove the biological filters for the Apollo 12 mission?


Oh, and mcrom????

Poor form.

reply to post by weedwhacker

Now....logic tells me that

so according to your logic they had a problem on the Apollo 11 mission and NASA new about it and didn't do anything to correct the problems for Apollo 12.

no logic there sorry

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Oh, and mcrom????

Poor form.

reflecting on your signature..... 'karma is an action which is not a reaction'...

acquaint yourself with dharma to understand the meaning of dogma.....

reply to post by easynow


Oh....no, they had quite a few surprises, mistakes, whatnots on Apollo 11...and 10, and 9, etc. ALL were learning experiences, applied to the next mission. Not everything could be foreseen. A lot could have gone more terribly wrong, but the attention to detail and the "can do" attitude helped.

I actually am wondering IF, after the brouhaha of the "space germs" (remember, the Michal Chricton book had just been made into a film..."Andromeda Strain"...in the late 1960s) meant that the hysteria over the possible contamination was eased by the time Apollo 12 flew.

IF that is the case, then it would lend authenticity to a possible 'SEVA' on 12.

There's another little tidbit in "ROCKET MEN"...caught my eye.

Seems there is (was?) a complete duplicate Mission Control in Houston. It was one the floor directly beneath the one that was public.

(According to the author of the book, Craig Nelson).

This lends more credence to Luna's claims, possibly. Meaning...that there was a potential for covert communications, in the event this 'SEVA' occured.

So, I'm open to that possiblility. I still think it is a stretch, though, to conflate that component (which, as previously mentioned, just have been an orientation peek, a quick look around the panorama to ascertain exactly where they were, in order to not waste time on the planned EVAs).

To admit that, on an open channel, they were uncertain as to position? Not politically expedient, back then, for their image.

BTW...I found it interesting, as well, that because the Apollo 11 LM landed long, and Armstrong flew horizontally for quite a while to find a suitable place to land, even Mike Collins could never spot the LM as he orbited. From an altitude of 60 miles.

And those 'hoax' conspiracy theorists think it should be easy to spot the Apollo equipment!!!

Took astronomers on Earth some time to find the laser reflectors, too.