Apollo 12's Covert EVA , Are E.T.'s the reason for the Secrecy ?

interesting article by ingo swan from 1998....

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

this bit interested me..... but cant seem to locate those pics......

* An unmistakable Mackerel type cloud bank can easy be identified just off the crater Vitello (NASA Lunar Orbiter V photo, No. MR 168).

* A very large cloud bank hangs over the rim of a crater in Mare Moscovience on the Moon’s backside (NASA Lunar Orbiter V photo, No. HR 1033).

kordylewski clouds are something new which i didnt know about.... weird stuff.....


[edit on 30/12/09 by mcrom901]

reply to post by mcrom901

Hey there mcrom901,
Interesting video, but in that part you mention there about the rain, Ed Mitchell is saying "...the grade is getting pretty steep", not the rain is getting pretty steep. That comment was made when Shepard and Mitchell were in the process of climbing up the exterior wall of Cone Crater during EVA2, and Mitchell is just referencing the fact that they are plodding up a hill that is increasing in steepness.

The raindrop patterning that was observed during Apollo 14 surface ops is definitely intriguing though, and one possible (and in my opinion VERY interesting) explanation has to do with electrostatic levitation effects on lunar dust and particulate matter causing migration and resettling. This might sound kinda wild, but is in fact a documented phenomena where lunar surface particulate matter actually floats up off the lunar surface and can hover in mid-air, climb to altitudes of over 100 kms (yes, I said kilometers), then gradually settle back down again, or possibly escape the lunar gravitational influence entirely (I haven't seen any data demonstrating the impossibility of levitating particulate matter not being able to escape lunar gravitational influence yet, so I figured I would throw that out there).

This levitating dust phenomena was initially photographed/detected prior to Apollo by NASA's unmanned Surveyor lunar landing program, and the Russians also detected levitating lunar dust with the camera/sensor systems aboard their Lunokhod-2 rover. The first link below is to a document abstract called “Surveyor Observations of Lunar Horizon Glow” from 1973. I am just going from my personal copy of the document, but I think the whole thing is available online somewhere. Anyways, on page 20, they directly reference the results from the Soviet Lunokhod-2 rover, which “reported the detection of a lunar sky background at 5400A and 2700A during lunar day by a photometer on board Lunokhod-2.” It then goes on to say that “the 5400A background was also observed when the sun was one degree below the local horizon and the horizon shadow was 700m above Lunokhod-2. This means scattering grains were ejected by some means nearly 1 km above the terminator lunar surface.”
I point out the Russian findings here as it offers confirmation from a source other than NASA that this phenomena is indeed documented.
www.springerlink.com... - abstract only

So basically, lunar dust can actually levitate up, migrate around, and re-settle back down somewhere else on the Moon's surface. Rather than going into the scientific theories that try to account for this levitation effect here, I attached a few document links below. The raindrop effect in the regolith that was reported by the Apollo 14 moonwalkers could be due to a "particulate rainfall", where the matter that was being levitated fell back to the Moon's surface and mottled the soft, powdery lurain in that area. I ain't saying that is definitely what caused the raindrop effect by any stretch, but that is one possible explanation I guess.

For anyone interested, here are a few more documents getting into this rather impressive lunar dust levitation phenomena.

Electrostatic charging of lunar dust
www.lpi.usra.edu...

Effects of levitated dust on astronomical observations from the lunar surface - PDF
ntrs.nasa.gov...

Electrostatic effects on the lunar surface - PDF
www.lpi.usra.edu...

A Dynamic Fountain Model for Lunar Dust - PDF
ntrs.nasa.gov...

(CONTINUED BELOW)

(Continued from above)

If you go on NASA TRS and search for "lunar dust levitation" (or something like that) you will get a bunch of hits to plenty of other documents discussing this phenomena.
ntrs.nasa.gov...

High-altitude dust was visually detected from lunar orbit by the Apollo crews as well. During the first trip to the Moon for example - Apollo 8 - the astronauts discussed the lunar horizon glow caused by this higher altitude dust, and referenced it in internal crew conversations caught on the DSE black box recorder inside the CSM.

APOLLO 8 DSE transcripts
i276.photobucket.com...

i276.photobucket.com...

The Apollo 17 crew made the best observations of the high-altitude "streamers" of dust however, reporting that they were able to visually detect levitating particulate matter that extended above their on-orbit CSM, reaching well over 100 kms above the Moon's surface. These pages are from a great document titled "Evidence for a high altitude distribution of lunar dust", showing sketches made by the crew of Apollo 17 of the high-altitude levitating dust streamers they observed from lunar orbit.

i276.photobucket.com...
i276.photobucket.com...
i276.photobucket.com...

Actually, come to think of it, I have a clip that I included in one of my Youtube videos that shows the high-altitude dust. In this video here - www.youtube.com... I show a clip at the 1:01 mark that is about 10 seconds long. That particular clip is actually a series of still frames I animated together to create the video. It was taken back in 1994 by the DoD/NRL DSPSE "Clementine" lunar probe, using one of the spacecraft "Star Tracker" cameras to image the Moon as it was transiting in front of the solar disc. You can see a bit of the high altitude dust effect causing Rayleigh scattering in that clip, and it is also worthwhile noting how the camera is pointed right at the partially eclipsed solar disc, yet stars in space are still EASILY detectable in the imagery. You don't see many shots from NASA showing the Sun and stars in the same frame. I guess we needed a DoD/NRL bird to show us that.

Here is another still from Clementine, this one a color image that shows a similar scene, this time with the Moon, Sun, stars, and the planet Venus off to the right (look at the size of Venus here!)

i276.photobucket.com...



Cheers,
LunaCognita


[edit on 30-12-2009 by LunaCognita]

[edit on 30-12-2009 by LunaCognita]

reply to post by LunaCognita


cheers buddy.... thanks a lot for your detailed response.... very much appreciated....

also some intriguing stuff in the following links.....

www.thelivingmoon.com...
www.thelivingmoon.com...



[edit on 4/1/10 by mcrom901]

So I take it that nobody has actually yet bothered to call up the author of the original document and ask for her explanation of the howler?

reply to post by JimOberg


Jeeze....this thread still going???

Why not ASK Bean or Gordon??? (Better hurry...Gordon is three years older than Bean, and he turned eighty last October...)

Maybe they had to hide the fact that the "aliens" were trying to take the Surveyor 3 parts (had it up on cinder blocks)?????

White trash ETs. Common problem in this neighborhood back in the late 60s/early 70s......

Originally posted by JimOberg
So I take it that nobody has actually yet bothered to call up the author of the original document and ask for her explanation of the howler?

no return calls , how about you ? any luck ?

maybe she is just busy "smoking something" ?

Originally posted by mcrom901
interesting article by ingo swan from 1998....

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

this bit interested me..... but cant seem to locate those pics......

* An unmistakable Mackerel type cloud bank can easy be identified just off the crater Vitello (NASA Lunar Orbiter V photo, No. MR 168).

* A very large cloud bank hangs over the rim of a crater in Mare Moscovience on the Moon’s backside (NASA Lunar Orbiter V photo, No. HR 1033).

kordylewski clouds are something new which i didnt know about.... weird stuff.....


[edit on 30/12/09 by mcrom901]

There are no clouds on the Moon. This humongous mistake was made by George Leonard and Fred Steckling about Lobachevsky crater: www.astrosurf.com...

Here is a source amongst many for Vitello crater, LOV-168M: www.lpi.usra.edu... - page 168

Those not knowing about albedo (the ratio of reflected to incident light), high and otherwise, call it "clouds."

Here is a source for Mare Moscoviense: www.lpi.usra.edu...


[edit on 4-1-2010 by The Shrike]

Originally posted by The Shrike
There are no clouds on the Moon.

what is the basis of your absolute certainty?

Those not knowing about albedo (the ratio of reflected to incident light),

i suppose metamerism could be more relevant..... provided nasa would quit promoting 'charlie chaplin' quality lunar pix.......

Originally posted by The Shrike

There are no clouds on the Moon.

Hi Shrike,
Well, I guess it would depend on what the definition of "cloud" is. For example, the lunar levitating dust phenomena I briefly touched on in that above post creates what could be reasonably characterized as a "dust cloud" above the lunar surface, could it not?

Here are a few dictionary definitions for the word "cloud" here (used in noun form) I just snagged from Dictionary.com.

1. a visible collection of particles of water or ice suspended in the air, usually at an elevation above the earth's surface.
2. any similar mass, esp. of smoke or dust.
3. a dim or obscure area in something otherwise clear or transparent.
4. a patch or spot differing in color from the surrounding surface.
5. anything that obscures or darkens something, or causes gloom, trouble, suspicion, disgrace, etc.
6. a great number of insects, birds, etc., flying together: a cloud of locusts obscuring the sun.

For purposes of this discussion, I think it is fair to use an admittedly wide definition of the word "cloud" here and assign it to "any collection of gas, ice, or particulate matter suspended above the surface that is grouped together in sufficient density to partially or fully obfuscate the otherwise normal view through it".

Now, we know that lunar levitating dust is indeed capable of, at varying degrees, partially obfuscating the view of the background scene. We know this because the levitating dust was detectable to both camera/sensor systems on unmanned spacecraft as well as via direct visual observations from the Apollo astronauts, and if it is detectable, then it must be at least partially obfuscating the background in order to be detectable. Because the astronauts could actually see these collections of lunar dust levitating above the Moon's surface, then that also has to mean that the levitating dust was at least partially obfuscating the normal background scene they were looking at. Anytime a cloud is detected due to it's partial transparency - a levitating dust cloud or gaseous discharge in this case - that cloud must be blocking out at least some of the normal background scene in order for it to be detectable.

One of the major recognized "experts" studying the idea of "lunar transients" is a woman by the name of Winifred Sawtell Cameron. She is old-school, and has been studying this subject for a long time. Just Google her name for some really good reading on this fascinating subject. She did a lot of work on LTP at NASA/Goddard since even before the Apollo program, and she wrote or co-wrote some great documents that are available in the NASA TRS online archives and elsewhere.

If we go and look at the 1400+ reports in Ms. Cameron's Lunar Transient Phenomena Catalog (linked below) we find plenty of references to obfuscative "cloud" sightings above the Moon being detected during lunar observations over the years - possibly attributable to levitating lunar dust effects and/or outgassing from the lunar interior. There are more than enough reports (hundreds) from credible lunar astronomers and amateurs alike to give some serious weight to the idea of there being temporary (and typically short-lived) "cloud-like" anomalies detectable above the lunar surface. Cameron even breaks her cataloging efforts down by categorizing the sightings into five groups - Darkenings; Brightenings; Reddish; Bluish; and Gaseous. The "Gaseous" reports typically deal with these cloud-like sightings.

Here is Cameron's updated LTP Catalog in PDF (updated to 1996 I believe)
users.aber.ac.uk...

Another good name to search for is a woman named Barbara Middlehurst. She has done some great work on LTP over the years as well. Search for her on the NASA TRS and plenty of docs will come up.

NASA TRS Archives
ntrs.nasa.gov...

(Continued Below)

(Continued from above)

So, I don't think anyone can say with certainty that there are "no clouds on the Moon". In fact, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Even during Apollo, instrumentation on the Apollo 15 and 17 CSM's detected radon in the region around the Aristarchus Plateau (among other areas) for example. More than one of the surface experiments set up by the Apollo moonwalkers also detected bursts of atmospheric molecules that had a density higher than the normal background for short-lived periods (LACE and SIDE experiments), and of course the seismometer systems detected plenty of "moonquakes" (one even scoring just over four on the Richter Scale I believe) during their few years of operation. The idea of outgassing and short-lived cloud formation above the Moon - be it due to gas ejection or particulate matter being levitated - must be considered when trying to explain at least some of these well-reported (though not well-publicized) phenomena sightings of lunar transient clouds.

While not dealing only with "cloud" sightings, just to show how seriously NASA took the idea of LTP phenomena during Apollo, it is worth noting the efforts of Ms. Cameron, Middlehurst and others in something called "Operation LION" - with LION being an acronym for Lunar International Observers Network. Operation LION consisted of a network of amateur and professional astronomers from around the world, and during the Apollo missions, their job was to telescopically observe the Moon while the astronauts were in lunar orbit, looking for lunar transients. Any sightings of LTP were then forwarded to MCC Houston, where the report could then be radioed to the CSM so the astronauts could try for direct-eye observations of the region of the Moon where the LTP was reported. During the Apollo 10 mission for example, Operation LION reported detecting 19 LTP events, 13 of which originated from the area around the "Aristarchus Plateau" - which is by far the most active "hotspot" on the lunar surface for transient activity reports from around the globe.

Here is a framecap from page 188 of the Apollo 10 Post-Mission Report, providing a brief synopsis of the Operation LION sightings during that mission.



While it doesnt have to do specifically with cloud sightings, during the Apollo 11 mission, multiple Operation LION observers reported seeing a glow coming from the Aristarchus Plateau region, and on the next orbital pass, astronaut Buzz Aldrin was asked to take a look. Here is the TEC transcript pages below showing Aldrin's descriptions of what he saw when he was told to look towards Aristarchus. Aldrin made these comments at the exact same time a pair of Operation LION observers in Bochum, Germany reported seeing the same glow. Was it merely zero-phase reflective effects of Earthshine, or was it something more that was responsible for the observed glow? Interesting how the astronauts did not put the monocular on Aristarchus to get a better look (at least publicly), nor did they shoot any imagery of this observation (again, at least publicly).






Cheers gang,
LC

reply to post by LunaCognita


cheers....

eyeopening as ever.... great stuff.... lead me to this fascinating report..... thanks...

The lunar surface is covered with a thick layer of micron/sub-micron size dust grains formed by billions of years of meteoritic impact. With virtually no atmosphere and exposed to the solar wind plasma and solar electromagnetic radiation, the lunar surface and the dust grains are electrostatically charged. The dominant charging processes include: photoelectric emissions (UV, X-rays), impact of solar wind electrons and ions, and secondary electron emissions (SEE) induced by energetic solar wind electrons. During the Apollo missions, the astronauts found the lunar dust to be extraordinarily high in its adhesive characteristics, sticking to the suits and the mechanical equipment. Electrostatically charged lunar dust is believed to be transported over long distances by the induced electric fields, as indicated by the observed dust streamers and the horizon glow.

Lunar Dust Charging by Secondary Electron Emission and its Complex Role in the Lunar Environment

reply to post by LunaCognita


awesome pic !

i276.photobucket.com...

thanks for posting that......dam !!



i wanted to add your new video to this thread since there seems to be some hidden things like UFO's !!!! in the Apollo DAC footage !





[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b99c95ee8a5d.png[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/701981ffea3a.png[/atsimg]




nahh... no need for any secret EVA's........... right ?

reply to post by easynow


G'day easynow

This looks like a very interesting thread.

I've not had time to read it thoroughly.....I'll have to do so.

That "fast mover" video / image is intriguing.

On the one hand, the amount of video noise prior to the object being shown leads me to suspect some sort of video effect. The "fast mover" colour spectrum does match that video noise.

On the other hand, that "shadow" produces somewhat of a problem for my video "hypothesis", unless a video expert can explain the "shadow" in that context.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
That "fast mover" video / image is intriguing.

On the one hand, the amount of video noise prior to the object being shown leads me to suspect some sort of video effect. The "fast mover" colour spectrum does match that video noise.

On the other hand, that "shadow" produces somewhat of a problem for my video "hypothesis", unless a video expert can explain the "shadow" in that context.

Could be an LTP which LunaCognita discusses in an earlier post:

Originally posted by LunaCognita
While not dealing only with "cloud" sightings, just to show how seriously NASA took the idea of LTP phenomena during Apollo, it is worth noting the efforts of Ms. Cameron, Middlehurst and others in something called "Operation LION" - with LION being an acronym for Lunar International Observers Network.

And we are still observing LTPs trying to get a handle on them, but about half of them occur during meteor showers and the other half occur outside of meteor showers, and since meteors can leave a shadow it shouldn't be a mystery what it could be.

Lunar Transient Phenomena

Cooke's prime target is lunar meteors--flashes of light that occur when meteoroids hit the Moon's surface: video. "Of the 20 lunar meteors we've seen so far, about half come from well-known meteor showers such as the Leonids and Geminids. The other half are random meteoroids that take us completely by surprise." NASA is preparing to send astronauts back to the Moon and the agency is understandably interested in how often this happens.

[edit on 6-2-2010 by Arbitrageur]

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


hello Maybe...maybe not,

This looks like a very interesting thread.
I've not had time to read it thoroughly.....I'll have to do so.

oh trust me , this is a very interesting thread and i recommend you study LunaCognita's article about this Secret Covert EVA more than the comments that have been posted and then give us your opinion.

here is the link..

easynowsmoonblog.blogspot.com...


and yes the color spectrum does seem to be the same but i would be careful about assuming the object is a product of a video effect because there are signs of obfuscation in the DAC footage.
i will let LunaCognita expand on that when he is ready to.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


G'day Arbitrageur

I agree that could be a good "fit".

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by easynow


G'day again easynow

The forecast is for more rain here in Sydney, tomorrow.

That sounds like a great excuse to stay inside & read all that.

Kind regards & thanks again for more interesting info....

Maybe...maybe not

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
That sounds like a great excuse to stay inside & read all that.

Kind regards & thanks again for more interesting info....

You picked a good one to read, I think a lot of theories on ATS are dubious but I give LunaCognita high marks for putting a compelling case together based on what seems like more than just a typo in the NASA report combined with the radio silence during the time involved. In fact I think it's probably the best conspiracy theory I've read on ATS, so thanks easynow for bringing it here.

Does that mean it's true? I don't know, I'm just saying this case in the OP has a lot better documentation and evidence than 99% of other conspiracy theories I've read on ATS. The main thing that has me puzzled is that if they admitted to a standup EVA on another Apollo mission, I'm not sure what their motivation would be for making the standup EVA on Apollo 12 a secret? I guess speculation about that makes it interesting. But you should enjoy the read.

[edit on 6-2-2010 by Arbitrageur]

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Thanks Arbitrageur

Well that positive commentary makes it even more intriguing.

I'm look forward to that reading, tomorrow.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not