The Ancients Series | Part I: Sumerians

reply to post by Matyas


oh you think he was nebu? i don't. interesting theory tho. mind sending me a u2u on your evidence for that particular viewpoint?

reply to post by serbsta


Well, its obvious here everyone has bits and pieces of the big picture.I have found out certain things also, and I am about them as my signature states. I should refrain elaborating as I have a physics sub-subject going on with Devino here, and I really don't want to derail the thread. I feel like I have pushed enough.

But I will say this, this mystery is pandimensional. In the outer physical it is the stars, connecting together understood as binding. The astronomer/astrologer becomes the magician with a pointy hat with stars and Moons on it, the stars become spirits and demons, and space becomes the abyss or bottomless pit. Then there is the inner spiritual, the pinEAl gland interpreted as the face of God, the seat of dreams, the subconscious, connected with these ancient cultures through the ritual use of hallucinogenic plants. Again the story of every plant in the Garden, and then there is the original Spaceman of our time, Jesus, extolling upon the virtue of "if thine eye be single".

There is so much here, we are onto something big, I can feel it.

reply to post by undo


No, apparently he wasn't. My bad. That is the one I was thinking about. What would it be, unless it was a mind trip? Such a thing must have occurred in the physical. They were big on dreams, and knew the difference between dreams, visions, and actual curses.

Originally posted by DerbyCityLights
reply to post by one4all

 

If by "parked" you mean the earth was struck by a mass roughly the size of mars in it's early life and the debris that spewed into space clumped together to form the moon then yes, it was parked there.

There are some myths regarding what appears to be the loss of our Moon and which may have led to the downfall of the early Egyptian empire (builders of the great pyramid of Cheops).

According to some myths one4all might be correct pertaining to the weather and our Moon. One of the gods (Mars?) stole our Moon which resulted in a very long drought with the death and extinction of much of life on Earth. Two other gods were sent (by Jupiter?) to retrieve our Moon bringing back with them water and rain (water coming to Earth from the heavens, reminds me of the water flowing from Enki's shoulders). The sources of this myth did not associate the gods to planets (Mars, Venus and Mercury all sent by Jupiter) here but there is a very sound connection to the named in other myths. I do think the Moon was named yet there was some ambiguity here as well.

I take these identifications with a Gnostic approach to symbolism, meaning "Do not take them literally". I believe that this has been the failing to a varying degree of many archaeological, anthropological and mythological studies.

Are the ancient gods humans from Earth or from other planets?
Are the ancient gods supernatural beings, spirits or trans-dimensional creatures?
Are the ancient gods planets, moons and stars?
Or could they somehow be a combination of them all?

To have an understanding that the ancients believed these gods to be supernatural or mythological characters on the one hand and then describe these gods as simply human beings on the other is missing the point. When I read the academic version of Greek mythology that is written in this manner I am appalled at this obvious error. It is as though the explanation is arbitrarily one way or another depending on how best it can be made to appear impossible and nothing more than ignorant superstitious beliefs. At this point it becomes very obvious where the ignorant superstitious beliefs are originating from.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by serbsta

 

have you read heiser's paper on "THE NACHASH AND HIS SEED: some explanatory notes on why the serpent in Genesis 3 wasn't a serpent" ?
what he means is, the serpent was not a snake.
here's the paper
www.thedivinecouncil.com...

...

somewhere along in here, enlil and enki appear to get on the same page and i'm thinking it was following the flood situation or it may be that someone tampered with any number of texts, further confusing the issue.

Interesting PDF, thanks for that. It does put a lot of things into perspective and i found the perspective that the nachas was not an actual snake, rather a bright light very intersting and the more i look at it the more it makes sense.

Well, think about it. The flood is in a way the result of the conflict between Enki and Enlil, it is in my opinion a major checkpoint aswell because an attempt was MADE TO EXTINGUISH ALL LIFE (by Enlil the dragon) with the flood, and an attempt was MADE TO SAVE ALL LIFE (by Enki) by collecting 2 of each animal (DNA?).

Originally posted by Matyas
reply to post by serbsta

 

There is so much here, we are onto something big, I can feel it.

I'm not sure if we're onto anything big or not, but the picture is certainly getting much clearer with every post in this thread.

Originally posted by Devino

Are the ancient gods humans from Earth or from other planets?
Are the ancient gods supernatural beings, spirits or trans-dimensional creatures?
Are the ancient gods planets, moons and stars?
Or could they somehow be a combination of them all?

Or is it all just a collection of many inspirations of the human imagination?

Even if it, it is a damn good story.

Originally posted by Matyas
reply to post by serbsta

 

But I will say this, this mystery is pandimensional. In the outer physical it is the stars, connecting together understood as binding. The astronomer/astrologer becomes the magician with a pointy hat with stars and Moons on it, the stars become spirits and demons, and space becomes the abyss or bottomless pit. Then there is the inner spiritual, the pinEAl gland interpreted as the face of God, the seat of dreams, the subconscious, connected with these ancient cultures through the ritual use of hallucinogenic plants. Again the story of every plant in the Garden, and then there is the original Spaceman of our time, Jesus, extolling upon the virtue of "if thine eye be single".

There is so much here, we are onto something big, I can feel it.

Very well put, this is a nice description of how these many things are all connected and does pertain to the OP even if they appear dissimilar. I also feel that this is a collection of many pieces to the same puzzle.

I believe there is an unrecognized physical phenomena occurring that has either giving rise to these myths or maybe is actually their origin. I also believe that this in no way detracts from the spiritual or supernatural connection (or understanding) as they [the myths] describe far more than just physical and electrical events. Once I stared making these connections I couldn't help but begin to see them everywhere, even in modern day symbols. This is a combination of ancient myths, astronomy and astrology from an Immanuel Velikovsky perspective.

I think in part it has to do with a highly energetic electrical interaction with the Earth (atmospheric electrical phenomena) that we have only witnessed in short partial bursts (lightning and aurora borealis).
Here is a representation of upper atmospheric electrical discharge. This illustration is a very subtle version of what would have been a much larger event involving celestial objects.
Blue lightning jets, Sprites and Elves.

Astrologically the snake is represented as the thirteenth zodiac, Ophiuchus or the snake bearer. Astronomically the snake is the Milky Way galaxy.

Dragons are described as having wings, breath fire, emit lightning from their eyes and sometimes are the source of great thundering sounds (the true name of God?). I couldn't even begin to list all of the connections Dragon myths from around the world have to these physical actions. Furthermore, the depth at which one could study these physical actions and their connection to ancient myths is mind boggling.



[edit on 11/1/2009 by Devino]

reply to post by serbsta


the word "All" is not in the hebrew language.
that was added by translators. not sure about the epic of gilgamesh translation, because it does say "all" in that one but i don't know if the translators assumed it since it was the same flood epic or if it's in the language of the sumerians.

and before you forget, enki and enlil were both "great dragons," according to the sumerian-akkadian texts.

have a listen to this interview i did with dr. heiser:
www.thestargates.com...

reply to post by one4all


No, you wouldn't have to take them off this rock you would just have to help them from the outside. Taking over the planet would just hinder mankinds potential for PURE ENERGY.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by serbsta

 

the word "All" is not in the hebrew language.
that was added by translators. not sure about the epic of gilgamesh translation, because it does say "all" in that one but i don't know if the translators assumed it since it was the same flood epic or if it's in the language of the sumerians.

and before you forget, enki and enlil were both "great dragons," according to the sumerian-akkadian texts.

have a listen to this interview i did with dr. heiser:
www.thestargates.com...

I wasn't quoting the Bible... i was just describing what was happening. I know that ALL is not in the Hebrew language. Did you really not get what i was trying to say in that post?

And no i didn't know that they were BOTH great dragons, i've only come across references to Enlil as a great dragon, unless you have a source that says otherwise?

reply to post by serbsta


i mentioned this earlier, but you must've missed it. enki is called the great dragon in the text, "enki and the world order". here it is:

Grandiloquent lord of heaven and earth, self-reliant, father Enki, engendered by a bull, begotten by a wild bull, cherished by Enlil the Great Mountain, beloved by holy An, king, mes tree planted in the Abzu, rising over all lands; great dragon who stands in Eridug

www-etcsl.orient.ox.ac.uk...

[edit on 1-11-2009 by undo]

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by serbsta

 

i mentioned this earlier, but you must've missed it. enki is called the great dragon in the text, "enki and the world order". here it is:

Grandiloquent lord of heaven and earth, self-reliant, father Enki, engendered by a bull, begotten by a wild bull, cherished by Enlil the Great Mountain, beloved by holy An, king, mes tree planted in the Abzu, rising over all lands; great dragon who stands in Eridug

www-etcsl.orient.ox.ac.uk...

[edit on 1-11-2009 by undo]

Oh yes... i remember reading that. Sorry, must've forgotten.

But about my post a couple of post's back which you might have missed. What do you think about the significance of the great flood and the battle between the two dragons, Enki and Enlil? Does it not mark a turning point, as one tried to save humanity while the other tried to destroy it?

reply to post by serbsta


i take all related stories, the biblical, the hindu, the pseudopigraphical and the sumerian, to make sense of it.
this is what i got from it: (deductive reasoning)

1. the planet was in a shambles, both environmentally and genetically.

--A. from tampering with the DNA of all life on the planet, creating various types of hybrids (which you can see happening again today. bioengineered tomatoes spliced with scorpion DNA to act as its own bug repellant, etc), till the food was no longer edible and various uncurable diseases were rampant. this resulted in mass starvation and death via disease.

--B. Wars and pollution, including something that sounds nuclear, ruins the ecosphere, causing massive droughts, which kill off even more people.

--C. Through all this, the nephilim hybrids survive, whereas the humans begin to die off, first from starvation and disease, and later from being cannabalized by the nephilim.

2. When the sumerian text says Enlil was upset by their NOISY LOVEMAKING, he's not referring to noise or lovemaking, he's referring to polluted genetic code. Polluted to the point that it is no longer viable for sustaining human life or plant/animal life. The only thing that's managing to survive it are Enki's royal creations -- the nephilim, who are eating what few humans are left.

3. Enlil decides to save Noah and company because he is "righteous in his generations" (meaning his DNA is not all hacked up or super-modified). He tells the other Anunna that they must not warn the remnant, who are mostly hybrids. When the biblical texts say "adam" (man) had grown evil, I do believe it was trying to explain what had happened to man, genetically, which I suppose could effect humans in other ways than physically. I do not believe the humans were evil as much as the planet itself and much life on it, was sick and dying in massive numbers. Had Enlil not intervened, there would be no humans or animals left at all

4. Enki decides to save the King of Sumer. He follows the same guidelines Enlil gives to Noah, and provides this info to the King. At this point onward, both stories are mingled together. It finds its way into the biblical text, with only slight modifications that match the oral histories of the surviving humans of Noah and the gang.

5. this same thing is repeated in various places around the globe.


[edit on 1-11-2009 by undo]

Well, think about it. The flood is in a way the result of the conflict between Enki and Enlil, it is in my opinion a major checkpoint aswell because an attempt was MADE TO EXTINGUISH ALL LIFE (by Enlil the dragon) with the flood, and an attempt was MADE TO SAVE ALL LIFE (by Enki) by collecting 2 of each animal (DNA?).

I dont think they collected DNA, I think they controlled the animals with their technology. Remember it was said that "God" sent the animals to the ark, and that all Noah did was feed and assist them on board.

The Good news the rest of the Bible says God will come back or the Son of God will come back. :-D So we can ask them then?!

Its funny what happens when ppl JACK UP a good story

edit to add...

If the two dragons were fighting over humanity, it sounds like what the middle east, and the U.S. are all getting hyped up about.

But then When Jesus comes back and slays the dragon... What is the "Dragon"? and is Jesus the Good one of Bad one??

[edit on 1-11-2009 by rjmelter]

reply to post by undo


A lot of that sounds about right. What do the Aztecs and Hopis have to say about creation? They were around about the same time in the Americas....

reply to post by undo


Oh so it was Enlil who caused the flood, and then decided to save Noah. So Enlil is Jehovah/Yahweh from the OT?

reply to post by rjmelter


The only thing i know about the Hopis is their predictions and prophecies which are very interesting. About their myths/past i have no clue. Maybe undo can enlighten us on possible relations.

reply to post by serbsta


Brief Aztec Creation Myth,Cotinued on another page

Another myth site

This one should be of MORE Interest

All in ALL... There are some variations from people trying to interpret them. and btw the Hopi came afterwards but they carried the belief on

Here is a Hopi site you may find also VERYinteresting

reply to post by serbsta


yeah and so is enki
they are both written into the OT as EL
and the rest of the divine council members
are the elohiym
look at the tower of babel story in the sumerian version:

The nam-shub of Enki

Once upon a time, there was no snake, there was no scorpion,
There was no hyena, there was no lion,
There was no wild dog, no wolf,
There was no fear, no terror,
Man had no rival.
In those days, the land Shubur-Hamazi,
Harmony-tongued Sumer, the great land of the me of princeship,
Uri, the land having all that is appropriate,
The land Martu, resting in security,
The whole universe, the people well cared for,
To Enlil in one tongue gave speech.
Then the lord defiant, the prince defiant, the king defiant,
Enki, the lord of abundance, whose commands are trustworthy,
The lord of wisdom, who scans the land,
The leader of the gods,
The lord of Eridu, endowed with wisdom,
Changed the speech in their mouths, put contention into it,
Into the speech of man that had been one.

Translated from ancient Sumerian.

www.namshub.com...

reply to post by rjmelter


the sumerians didn't believe the creator of man was a woman
the babylonians did tho
one of the problems with sitchin's material is he calls all texts from babylon,
akkad and sumer, sumerian. when only one of those actually applies. akkad has a bit of wiggle room but the closer ya get to babylon, the more screwed up it gets till you have marduk completely hosing it in the enuma elish

[edit on 1-11-2009 by undo]