The Ancients Series | Part I: Sumerians

I want to thank all the posters for the excellent discussion and provided links on this subject.

I am trying to take all this history in from Summarian, Hopi, Aztec, Egyptian, etc and get a bit overwhelmed.

It seems to me that with all the commonalities - these myths (which I believe as real history) are telling the same story.

The stories to me are making me believe this is a "celestial" story or "cosmic" story.... but keeping an open mind as to where it will all lead.

The links of information have been great - I'm trying to read them all!

reply to post by undo


yeah i noticed that when reading... i was like but I thought......

So where is your safest bet of clean information?

reply to post by rjmelter


i have preference for the bible. i'm a christian so that's kinda a given.
but i think all the old texts have valuable information about our ancient ancestors and what happened to them, who did what when and where and why.

reply to post by undo


Oh i see. That makes sense.

So in the Bible when it makes references to 'the God's' or the Elohim is it always talking about more than one God. What is the plural of Elohim, if it isn't the plural already. Do you believe that the OT is a polytheistic recount and not a monotheistic one as modern day institutions believe?

Originally posted by rjmelter
reply to post by serbsta

 

Brief Aztec Creation Myth,Cotinued on another page

Another myth site

This one should be of MORE Interest

All in ALL... There are some variations from people trying to interpret them. and btw the Hopi came afterwards but they carried the belief on

Here is a Hopi site you may find also VERYinteresting

Aha, fantastic links!

I've bookmarked these for later reading once im done with what I'm currently working on. Should be interesting. Before i even start though... are there any similarities with any of the Mesopotamian mythologies we've discussed?

Edit: Nevermind, i just had a small read and it has a whole list of similarities!

Interesting, to say the least.



[edit on 1/11/2009 by serbsta]

reply to post by serbsta


elohiym is plural.
the bible is supposed to be about 1 god,
but there's more than one in there.
yeshua could say he was god and not be lying, IOTW,
because there's more than one in the book.
anu's in there. enlil's in there. enki's in there. yeshua's in there. but without proof,
i can't say who else is in there. not enough evidence.
will say , however, the egyptian amen/amun/amon is etymologically related to
anu, which was my first post in your thread. do you remember it ?
oh, and osiris is in there. did you know that? forgot about that one.
nimrod was the egyptian narmer and the akkadian enmerkar and a host of other fancy pants. but his big claim to fame is that he was osiris

reply to post by undo


Undo, if you don't mind me asking, as a Christian, which God do you worship? I'm a little confused. Do you believe the Christian God is the God, a god higher than Enki and Enlil?

Sorry if it's a dumb question. I'm a little slow.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by virraszto]

reply to post by undo

I have the same opinion as you about pre-diluvian history and the fall of human kind on Earth. I would add that Noah was a "friend of God" and his DNA pure as a descendant of Adam. This makes me feel that we are all descendants of Noah and therefore Adam but I am unsure about this yet I would like to think that it is true.

As for the collection of animal pairs (male/female) by Noah on the ark the only feasible way I can imagine is with their DNA. I know this sounds 'way out there' but the idea of two of every kind of animal in a relatively small ark is also 'way out there'.

I think it is very possible that none of the gods caused the flood by any intentional actions and were merely aware of an upcoming event, a celestial event. This wasn't a secret as God warned everyone yet only Noah believed it to be true and he was ridiculed for his ark building. Perhaps the others were laughing at Noah because they believed the gods would save them and they all were left to perish due to the corruption of Adams DNA.

Originally posted by rjmelter
But then When Jesus comes back and slays the dragon... What is the "Dragon"? and is Jesus the Good one of Bad one

I understand where you are coming from with this quote but I have to say that this is a good story that's been "jacked up". Jesus coming back, in the future, to fight the anti-Christ in an eternal battle over Good and Evil (Armageddon) is, in my opinion, a story that has been "jacked up".

This becomes the product of false prophets claiming to be clergy of the Catholic church propagating this apocalyptic story. Keep in mind that it is at least possible that these people are preaching false prophetic events which would make them false prophets. I believe that the story of Jesus' return and the end of the world (as we know it) has already happened. The myths and cultures of almost every ancient civilizations have cataclysmic events in them (the end of the world), the Maya tell of four such events in human history.

The preaching of doomsday prophecies is nothing more than fear mongering and this is being done by the false prophets. As painful as this sounds there is truth to these words.

reply to post by virraszto


he's not higher than enlil or anu i don't think???, but i'm not sure about enki. i'm trying to decide if he is enki. i keep arguing with myself over that one. he fits and doesn't fit, enki. he tells us if your eye is single your body will be full of light. he claims he was there when we were created. he tells us to be wise as serpents. he outwits the pharisees and scribes. he's amazingly compassionate to humans, as enki appears to be on the surface.
he says things that sound very enki-esque.

i don't know, i'm so torn!

reply to post by Devino


did you notice it says 7 male, 7 female, in pairs?

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by serbsta

 

anu, which was my first post in your thread. do you remember it ?
oh, and osiris is in there. did you know that? forgot about that one.
nimrod was the egyptian narmer and the akkadian enmerkar and a host of other fancy pants. but his big claim to fame is that he was osiris

Aha, yes, yes i remember you did mention it. I can't see where and how Osiris is in there though, i've found no evidence showing that what so ever, care to shed some light on it?

Originally posted by Devino
I have the same opinion as you about pre-diluvian history and the fall of human kind on Earth. I would add that Noah was a "friend of God" and his DNA pure as a descendant of Adam. This makes me feel that we are all descendants of Noah and therefore Adam but I am unsure about this yet I would like to think that it is true.

That's exactly what i was thinking. It would be interesting to trace the genealogy/etymology of Noah and see how far you can trace his lineage and perhaps find some evidence or reasoning as to why he was chosen.

Originally posted by Devino

As for the collection of animal pairs (male/female) by Noah on the ark the only feasible way I can imagine is with their DNA. I know this sounds 'way out there' but the idea of two of every kind of animal in a relatively small ark is also 'way out there'.

No, you're correct. If one is to take the account literally (which i leave open as a possibility), then there is no other way.



[edit on 1/11/2009 by serbsta]

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Devino

 

did you notice it says 7 male, 7 female, in pairs?

“Go into the boat with all your family, for among all the people of the earth, I can see that you alone are righteous. 2 Take with you seven pairs—male and female—of each animal I have approved for eating and for sacrifice,[a] and take one pair of each of the others."

Yes, it's saying to take 7 pairs, male and female of animals God (Enki/Enlil) has approved for eating and sacrifice and just to take one pair of each of the others.

What's the significance?

[edit on 1/11/2009 by serbsta]

Originally posted by Julie Washington
I want to thank all the posters for the excellent discussion and provided links on this subject.

I am trying to take all this history in from Summarian, Hopi, Aztec, Egyptian, etc and get a bit overwhelmed.

It seems to me that with all the commonalities - these myths (which I believe as real history) are telling the same story.

The stories to me are making me believe this is a "celestial" story or "cosmic" story.... but keeping an open mind as to where it will all lead.

The links of information have been great - I'm trying to read them all!

I totally agree and I find many connections to all of the ancient myths and astronomy in more ways then I can list. Since this thread is about the Sumerians I have tried not to link to other ancient civilizations but this has been very difficult. Right now my interests are in reading about the Maya civilizations in which the Anasazi and Hopi (plural) are descendants.

There is much evidence that trade between the Americas and Egypt/the Middle East was happening thousands of years ago. There also appears to be some evidence of a connection between Mesoamerica and Atlantis but this is a derail of the OP.

I will just have to wait for serbsta's post to come out and I very much appreciate the work that has been put into this thread. In my understanding the connection starting from the Aztec goes; Maya-Toltec-Olmec and then the Atlantians. The Anasazi and Hopi are both connected to the Maya and so is the culture of the North American Natives. The ancient Myths from North America are very difficult to find, thanks to the Christian missionaries, but it is very similar to the Maya and fits right into this giant puzzle we are recreating.

reply to post by serbsta


well it's an etymology trail that starts with the fact "nimrod" is a title, not a name. it means "rebel."
next, enmerkar and the lord of arrata, ( www-etcsl.orient.ox.ac.uk... ) describes nimrod's rebuilding of eridu, specifically, the e.abzu, which is called the tower of babel (the tower of the water god). he was the first world emperor after the flood. here's how enmerkar becomes osiris:

In Hebrew the four letters that make up the name Nimrod roughly translate to n-m-r-d. In Sumerian the name Enmer translates to n-m-r, while the suffix -kar simply means "hunter." In the Bible he is "Nimrod the Hunter" and in Sumerian myth he is "Enmer the Hunter."

www.redmoonrising.com...

Another example is Narmer (Nimrod), who turns out to be the natural son and successor of Hor-Aha (Cush), but is placed before him in some Egyptian king-lists. This can now be attributed to the veneration of Narmer as the first to be recognized as king of the four quarters of the (Near East) world.

www.domainofman.com...

all that remains is to connect narmer to osiris. before osiris died, he had a different name. osiris was his burial name (and it's the greek spelling too, not the egyptian spelling).

one such connection is the osirieon in abydos, egypt. osiris' capital city, said to be the place where his head was buried. abydos is a greek spelling. the egyptian spelling is abdju. the "dj" is pronounced "z", so abdju is pronounced abzu. in other words, after the disastrous events at the tower of the water god, enmerkar and company travelled to egypt and built the city of abzu, including a subterranean chamber (an abzu) called the osirieon. it's my belief this is where he died, based on the shabaki stone data:

This is the land ------the burial of Ausar in the House of Sokar. ------ Auset and Nebt-het without delay, for Ausar had drowned in his water. Auset [and Nebt-het] looked out, [beheld him and attended to him]. Heru speaks to Auset and nephthys: "Hurry, grasp him ---." Auset and Nebt-het speak to Ausar: "We come, we take you ---." ------ [They heeded in time] and brought him to [land. He entered the hidden portals in the glory of the lords of eternity]. -------. [Thus Ausar came into] the earth at the royal fortress, to the north of [the land to which he had come. And his son Heru arose as king of Upper Chem, arose as king of Lower Chem, in the embrace of his father Ausar and of the gods in front of him and behind him.]

tiny.cc...

i believe the text is saying he drowned in the abzu and was "buried" in the osirieon.

there's more but i have to look it up. sorry, this is a long topic

reply to post by serbsta


that's all he took. 7 male 7 female, which were lead into the boat in pairs. water animals and most flying animals, were not necessary. in fact, the epic makes it sound like he took the royal barnyard.
the word "all" isn't in the text. it's been added.

Originally posted by serbsta

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Devino

 

did you notice it says 7 male, 7 female, in pairs?

“Go into the boat with all your family, for among all the people of the earth, I can see that you alone are righteous. 2 Take with you seven pairs—male and female—of each animal I have approved for eating and for sacrifice,[a] and take one pair of each of the others."

Yes, it's saying to take 7 pairs, male and female of animals God (Enki/Enlil) has approved for eating and sacrifice and just to take one pair of each of the others.
What's the significance?

I thought this might have to do with chromosome pairs but human DNA has 23 pairs and after reading about DNA and chromosome pairs just now I could not find a connection. The scripture you quoted makes even less sense towards this point and I am now more confused then I was before.

I agree with you about taking the bible literally yet this statement is something I also find ironic, in a way. Some Christians say they take the bible literally as "the true word of God" yet they don't mean to take it this literal. It is an arbitrary definition and therefore has no meaning in that context.

a couple geologists from oxford, figure out the epic flood may have actually happened afterall

reply to post by undo


I meant to ask you about the meaning of "the Water Gate" in reference to the Tower of Babel.

I have read many different interpretations of this event;
The tower was a Zigurat or a pyramid of some kind (significance to the shapes and that it had 7 tiers with 7 doors),
The tower was a "God Gate" or perhaps a "Star Gate" (God =Star?),
The tower was a communication device or a way to make communion with God (Understanding the ineffable? No wonder all the languages then became confused),
The tower was for launching missiles (Sitchen)
And last, but not the least, your example of a "Water Gate".
The Tower of Babel story is very intriguing and I feel there is more to this then what we can read from it.

Originally posted by undo

one such connection is the osirieon in abydos, egypt. osiris' capital city, said to be the place where his head was buried. abydos is a greek spelling. the egyptian spelling is abdju. the "dj" is pronounced "z", so abdju is pronounced abzu. in other words, after the disastrous events at the tower of the water god, enmerkar and company travelled to egypt and built the city of abzu, including a subterranean chamber (an abzu) called the osirieon.

i believe the text is saying he drowned in the abzu and was "buried" in the osirieon.

Undo, you're a genius.

The Osiris Water Shaft

The Osiris Shaft is located under the causeway of Khafre, and it is about 25 feet deep. In ancient times people used the water-filled shaft as a swimming-hole, and even to the present day many people, including archaeologists, have entered the shaft. For centuries, however, the meaning of the Osiris Shaft has escaped even the most learned scholars.

The shaft received its name from the crystal-clear water that fills its bottom chamber. This unfinished water-filled cavern is entered from a higher chamber that contains niches filled with granite stone coffins. One of the empty niches contains a shaft in its floor that leads to a flooded corridor. Wading into the darkness, one can hear the echoes of ground water dripping from the rock walls.

After the excavation, I looked down into the water and saw the -remains of four pillars surrounded by a wall. Inside them was part of a large, granite sarcophagus with the lid thrown off.

Now from Hawass' own website:
The Mysterious Osiris Shaft at Giza

It was a great challenge to reduce the water level in the shaft to a point where we could work inside. The high water table in the area was the source of the problem.

What we discovered as we pumped out the water and excavated the shaft was truly amazing.

...

Is this one of the abzu's that you're talking about?

[edit on 1/11/2009 by serbsta]

reply to post by undo


Yes im aware of these videos, and have seen other's that show strong evidence of a great flood. I believe it's highly likely that one did occur.