Overthrow the democratically elected president, "how patriotic"

Electing a President is like buying a bag of potatoes. Sometimes you get a bad one and have to pitch it.

Originally posted by badgerprints
These people in DC work for us. We do have the right to call for these public servants to represent their constituency and to take steps to have them removed if they do not perform in the best interests of the citizens.

What steps would those be?

I thought if people don't like what the gov. is doing that they have the power to write their "local" representatives, or even request a meeting with him to discuss the issues.

What OldDagger said is that it's wrong to advocate the violent overthrow of the government.

Why a few are jumping on him, attacking him, and forming foolish assumptions about his stand is quite frankly....wierd!!

reply to post by John Matrix


Thank you.
It's interesting the Mods removed my reply to the self indulgent statement from another poster asserting his "right" to overthrow the President because he wants to.The President doesnt meet his standards. Sorry Mods, I don't regret a single word. The Government doesn't have any obligation whatsover to be concerned with some citizens paranoid fantasies and fringe ideas. Nor do the rest of us need to be concerned with his objections.
What I was adressing was the OP's point. It was NOT a personal attack, just the opposite i was responding to a personal attack against the President and by extention, the country and myself . the idea that anybody, because of their personal disagreementwith ANY administration has the right to use violence(murder) to further their own ends is a spoiled brat. Jeez. I think thats being polite to say the least!

[edit on 12-9-2009 by OldDragger]

Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by badgerprints
These people in DC work for us. We do have the right to call for these public servants to represent their constituency and to take steps to have them removed if they do not perform in the best interests of the citizens.

What steps would those be?

I thought if people don't like what the gov. is doing that they have the power to write their "local" representatives, or even request a meeting with him to discuss the issues.

What OldDagger said is that it's wrong to advocate the violent overthrow of the government.

Why a few are jumping on him, attacking him, and forming foolish assumptions about his stand is quite frankly....wierd!!

I wrote my representative once, Saxby Chambliss... I wrote him and asked if bush/cheney/rumsfield could be pursued as war criminals over the torture going on down in cuba. I got a reply back, and was told that he didnt think this was necessary as he was on an oversite commity that knew everything that was going on down there and that no laws had been broken.

So.. I got to thinking, he's on an oversite commity for the base down there? eerrr.. isnt that a conflict of intrest.. so, I wrote a second letter asking that if he was on this commity and knew everything that was going on down there, wouldn't criminal charges against bush also mean him and this commity would be invigated..

To that, I got, no reply.

So much for writing your representative

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
reply to post by mikerussellus

 

There were no massive rallies going on in D.C. in which the public railed against government spending before November 2008.

So yes, I have done my research.

they were in the planning phases back then

reply to post by kinda kurious

kinda kurious, I really don't consider myself a right wing anything, but a man who has fought, bled, and killed under my flag, the same flag that SOB in the White House doesn't respect at all.

Yes, we've had some Presidents with foreign parents before, but not in the last ninety years. Until now.

My great, great, great, great grandfather James Crawford raised Andrew Jackson, and his parents were both Irish parents. The same Andrew Jackson who fought the banking groups and won.

And yes, there were other parents that were Irish, English, and Canadian.

But they were born here in the US.

This guy Obama, I would lay the odds better than 50% that he's leaving office, and long before his time. Either an inside group arranges something, or the nation itself will come apart, in which he and his communist congress will have disassembled the United States as we know it.

Neither option is all that bad.





[edit on 12-9-2009 by dooper]

[edit on 12-9-2009 by dooper]

[edit on 12-9-2009 by dooper]

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by kinda kurious

 

kinda kurious, I really don't consider myself a right wing anything, but a man who has fought, bled, and killed under my flag, the same flag that SOB in the White House doesn't respect at all.

Yes, we've had some Presidents with foreign parents before, but not in the last ninety years. Until now.

My great, great, great, great grandfather James Crawford raised Andrew Jackson, and his parents were both Irish parents. The same Andrew Jackson who fought the banking groups and won.

And yes, there were other parents that were Irish, English, and Canadian.

But they were born here in the US.

This guy Obama, I would lay the odds better than 50% that he's leaving office, and long before his time. Either an inside group arranges something, or the nation itself will come apart, in which he and his communist congress will have disassembled the United States as we know it.

Neither option is all that bad.


[edit on 12-9-2009 by dooper]

I will be voting for Obama, again next election

You're a stupidhead....


No, you're a stupidhead.....

You're a stupidhead....


No, you're a stupidhead.....

You're a stupidhead....


No, you're a stupidhead.....

You're a stupidhead....


No, you're a stupidhead.....

You're a stupidhead....


No, you're a stupidhead.....

You're a stupidhead....


No, you're a stupidhead.....

I'm tellin' Mom........!!

hehe

tellin mom to vote obama next election

reply to post by hisshadow


That figures.

I am not surprised in the least.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
I find it rather bothersom of the willful neglect of the constitution when it doesnt suit the arguments of some folks. Lets not the forget the constitution was not written "by conservatives" for "conservatives". It was not written "patriots" for "patriots". The constitution was written by the people for the people. .....

I feel you're aggravation. However, you're sweeping generalizations seem to be exemplary of the conflicts which you find so offensive.

Many have argued about the Constitution. Many still do. Mostly, it refers to things that the drafters could not have foreseen with any specificity. I have heard it said that the people who drafted the document which was ratified by the gathered congress wan not really a good example of 'by the people' since they were all relatively well-off and or well-connected elites.

But it is possible for an elite to see the necessity of political change based on the notional paradigm "for the people, by the people.' At least I believe it is. So I choose to accept that the intent was as stated, to reduce the government from an authority over the people to a servant of the people.

Although I have been reading and participating in the exchanges I have yet to see a serious call for impeachment given from a perspective based on anything other than emotion. It is what it is. You are offended by it. That much is clear.

In fact, my only concern is with the deviation from the practices put in place to maintain the integrity of those entrusted to operate on behalf of the State (or states). After all, the restrictions on eligibility were not developed to exclude American citizens by definition, and unless you can convince me that this is some kind of injustice in principle, I am in agreement with the restriction as a matter of principle.

You have named those you hold in contempt, "southern conservatives and disgruntled libertarians want him to [leave]".

We do not all fit into that category. But it clearly addresses the matter of whom you find 'responsible' for the documents. I must ask if it is necessarily true? Is it impossible that there is such evidence to be found? Or shall we not look, simply because it is offensive to the status quo?

Is this what you consider patriotic? Is what you consider following the will of the founding fathers? Overthrowing a fairly elected president candidate on the basis of your own personal suspcions, theories, hatred? Where did this mentality come from? Does the consensus among those in this forum, among the conservative populous dictate the entire path of the nation? .....

Certainly your questions are rhetorical, conveying their message by context. I fail to make the 'automatic' connection of inquiry to evil; but I do not contend that such a motivation can, and likely does exist. It is good that you are a guardian against such actions. As check against bias it is a necessary component in an open dialogue. But the message seems to be leaking anguish and disdain, does it not?

You may not like Obama for all sorts of reasons but he was democratically elected as president on November 4th 2008. He was constitutionally confirmed eligible in December of 2008 by both congress and the electoral college. Whether you choose to accept it or not he did sufficiently provide evidence of his birth right for the presidency. .....

Ah, the meat of the argument. Frankly, I do not pretend to know Obama, and one of my frequent contentions is that apparently few do. This is no different from the circumstance with most of the parties' polished political products. We can easily consume their pre-packaged personalities as engendered by media finesse, and we can also be easily swayed by intelligently crafted verse. None of this is news. That there is an element of theater to the entire process is a sign of influences that have little to do with governance.

I can't say that you're concrete declaration of the appropriateness of President Obama's ascendancy are universally accepted - that much is evidently true. I am sensitive to some of you're counter-claims regarding the matter; but you seem to proceed under the assumption that they 'nullify' the inquiry. That because the so-called 'accusers' may be racists, or ideologically biased, the accusations can not be legitimate, and must be approached as deliberate fraud.

I simply counter that there is a difference between assuming someone is lying, and knowing that people can often be wrong - which does not presuppose evil intent.

Insofar as what is to become of this situation, it is the responsibility - at least initially - of the government to police herself. All the laws are in place, all the rules are set. My frequent complaint is that these who are obliged by moral compulsion and the oath they took, are often resistant to do what they surely must know must be done. It relates to far more than this simple matter of the proper authentication and vetting of those claiming eligibility to serve as President of the United States of America.

The conspiracy theorist in me compels me to reveal that essentially - all this angst is pointless because we are not discovering anything new or even dramatically different in the manner of the political governments of 20th century U.S.A. The the object of the political party is to establish permanent dominance and control is undeniably self-evident. [And yes, there is even another 'layer' of irrelevancy in this scenario - but I dare not digress further]. Between a number of circumstances a strategic posturing has taken place which serves to continuously diminish the power of Americans to act a single people, it operates from the most base level of ignorant bias to the wide-ranging elements of social-engineering. I wonder, is it unpatriotic to say so?

I agree that every citizen deserves the same rights as any other. I maintain that the object of government is to increase control, and that very tendency leads to abuses. Historically, we as a people, have displayed a nasty habit of waking up too late. I was of the generation that was never taught about our true history. I had to find out for myself. And I suspect you did too. I don't mean that to be presumptuous, I suspect that your sensitivities, as you express them, shows a clear knowledge of how sleazy bigots and the power hungry zombies can be. I just wonder if you're not seeing the enemy in the shadows.

But if you tell me that someone is not a citizen, or is seeming to escape scrutiny which everyone must face; I will be curious and concerned.

Just as if you tell me I'm a bigot, I am curious and concerned.

Curious as to how you're experiences of bigotry compares to my behavior. And concerned that you are not using your own entrenched compulsion to attribute bias to anything with which you disagree.

In addition to this, the mere fact you all kept your mouths shut over the last 8years only the speak up now clearly shows that this has nothing to do with the constitution and everything to do with cultural shock and fear and to be frank, that isnt sufficient enough to remove him from office.

I'm afraid that is a presumption on your part. I spoke out loudly and clearly. Most of us here did.

So, the next time anybody here goes on about how the president should be impeached, hanged, or whatever twisted reasoning you folks have, remember that you dont speak for all who contribute to this country, you dont speak for the constitution, you dont dictate the path of this nation exclusively and you dont draft the eligibility laws exclusively. This is a Union, shared by many peoples of many beliefs and many ideologies. Despite our differences we all share rights from the constitution and we all contribute to moving the nation on path. So, please cut the "patriotic water the liberty" garbage, because you dont own that right exclusively. You may not like where this nation is heading to, but thank the founding fathers you dont constitutionally speak for the rest of the nation exclusively.

Assuming your the same person, you're presuming again. No one here speaks for the country. Not even you. But somehow, your presence here seems oddly focused on and confined to a particular kind of engagement. Or is it rude to make such an observation? I certainly mean no disrespect to whoever you are in life. But you DO seem to mean to offend, from which I infer general disrespect. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

So the next time you post a thread or reply stating about how Obama and the government should be overthrown, but the constitution where your mouth is, not where your personal suspicions and hatred lie.

Again, assuming your the same person, I encourage anyone to post anything they like (within the T&C of course). And let the truth sort itself out. Until such a time when the rules change, this is one of the few places where you might actually learn a truth you would never have learned otherwise.

But that's just me.

Respectfully,

MM

"Wherever the real power in a Government lies, there is the danger of oppression. In our Government, the real power lies in the majority of the Community, and the invasion of private rights is chiefly to be apprehended, not from acts of government contrary to the sense of its constituents, but from acts in which the Government is the mere instrument of the major number of Constituents."[6]

We have forgotten that the "checks and balances" written into our Constitution were put there to protect us from democracy. We no longer have any concept of what our natural rights are, much less how best to secure them or even that we should be trying to secure them. If anything, we have come to believe that man in civil society has what Hobbes mistakenly believed he possessed in the state of nature — a right to everything, which is why he equated the state of nature with the state of war. Our society now exists in that state of war of "everyone against everyone" that Hobbes described in his state of nature, for most of us believe that we have a right to everything and that we can bring the force of government to bear against our neighbors to secure that right. To engage in armed defense of what we think are our rights amidst such confusion would result in a bloodbath of unprecedented proportions, which is no small statement considering the wars of the last century. As important as rediscovering our true natural rights is the understanding of what we do not have a right to — namely the life, liberty, or property of any other human being.

Campaign for Liberty

Democratic election means zilch. Many despots in history have been democratically elected. When the majprity of people are greedy and uninformed/misinformed, democracy can be dangerous. Money will always buy politics. The only true form of representative government will take the money (lobbyists) completely out of the equation.

The people didn't elect Obama, corporate moolah did. Just like all the officials since we entered the information age.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
the mere fact you all kept your mouths shut over the last 8years only the speak up now clearly shows that this has nothing to do with the constitution and everything to do with cultural shock and fear and to be frank, that isnt sufficient enough to remove him from office.

So, the next time anybody here goes on about how the president should be impeached, hanged, or whatever twisted reasoning you folks have, remember that you dont speak for all who contribute to this country, you dont speak for the constitution, you dont dictate the path of this nation exclusively and you dont draft the eligibility laws exclusively.

The first part is a bald faced lie. You do realize that many of us don't subscribe to either Party? We criticize both Parties because it is so glaringly apparent they are both corrupt and complicit. We are not naive enough to believe that either Party has our best intentions at heart. Or are you just here on a Koss style Partisan witch-hunt putting words and thoughts in peoples mouths to justify your own servitude to the masters of one Party regardless of whether they are using you or not?

The Constitution is what it is. A simple easy to understand document that takes very little time to read and understand. It was thrown under the bus by both the Left and Right.

Ask yourself, what is it about this Obama that makes you so mesmerized by him that you willingly slander others who are simply exercising THEIR right to Free Speech or Assembly? Or is that only reserved for those who bow to the alter of Obama? Where in the Constitution does it say free speech is a right only given to those who agree with you? Please cite and link to it?

Bush was a bad man. Obama is a bad man. People who fight for either one of them are brainwashed.

Most anyone here can document with transcripts or video's legion lies from both Parties.

Do you have any criticizm of Obama or do you approve of the lies he told to get elected? You do realize the Independent, Moderates who put him in office are now leaving him? He is dropping in the polls daily. Why do you suppose that is?

Could it be because he surrounds himself with self-described Marxists, Communists, radical Race Baiters, Castro / Che loving academicians who have never had a dirty fingernail and attended a Racist Church for twenty years and started his Political carrer in the living room of a Domestic Terrorist who brags about getting off on a technicality? All of these things are verifiable and true and yet if pointed out you are demonized for telling the truth and slandered.

Could it be because in nearly every campaign speech he ever made he guaranteed there would be no Lobbyists or Special Interests in his Administration and he then surrounded himself with nothing but Lobbyists and Special Interests? Do you like being lied too? Is lying a good and noble thing?

Do you dare address the lies and the dangerous people he surrounds himself with or will you continue on, head buried in the sand defending liars and cads?

Forgive me if I don't buy the premise of your post. I will of course change my words if you show a post anywhere on the Internet where you personally defended Bush in the same manner for the same reasons. If you did I would change my opinion and back you. If you did not and this is simply a Partisan rant trying to demonize anyone who does not love Obama or march in lockstep with your Party you are just yet another DNC operative putting Party ahead of Country? Just another person who does not mind lies and manipulation as long as it benefits you and only hurts people who don't agree with you.

Here is a link to the United States Constitution.

Please point out where it says that everyone here does NOT have the right to express their opinions whether, crazy, deranged, right or wrong without fear or censure. On what basis do you use this document to explain you telling people who don't agree with you and Obama to shut up?

Well, here's the thing, OP, I don't care if Obama or Barney the Dinosaur is president. The government has become corrupt.

And it's the duty of the people to do something about it.

That's great that you think the world is now a shiny, happy place now that Obama is president but a heck of a lot of us don't see it that way.

Him being democratically elected means nothing once the majority of the people start having a serious problem with the way he's going about things.

Some people have a completely different reason for not liking Obama but the point is that a lot of us are very unhappy with him. We want change, but not his kind of change.

I don't give a crap if he's socialist, Muslim, Mulatto, or a reptilian alien from the Draco solar system (I'm sure there's someone out there who thinks that). I care about his broken promises, his expansion of this war, his filling up his cabinet with special interests, and his refusal to even open up an investigation into the actions of the Bush admin.

He's a constitutional lawyer and he voted for the PATRIOT Act. Not cool in my book, man.

You can imply that I'm unpatriotic if you want. It don't bother me none, but just think long and hard about what you look like now that you just told people to keep their mouths shut and not complain about Obama otherwise they are somehow offending America. I'll put it quite frankly for you...it makes you look like a hypocrite.

Ever hear the phrase, "I love my country, it's the government I fear"?

Well, that's how A LOT of people feel.

Beliefs held by the drafters and signatories of the United States Constitution....


1. Women were considered to be property.
2. Voters were only those that owned real property.
3. Blacks and other races were actually not born quite so equal.
4. The world, and everything we know, would stay exactly the same as it was in 1776.


So, given that many of those people held beliefs that we now find to be self-evidently wrong....is it a reach to wonder just how many of their other ideas were wrong?

That's why I think it's hilarious when someone tosses out some "constitutional" argument nowadays. Like that document is absolutely perfect, despite the glaring and obvious fallacies believed by the framers of said document.

Get a friggin' grip and start living in the 21st century and a flat world.

[edit on 12-9-2009 by cranberrydork]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
You do realize that many of us don't subscribe to either Party?

Amen to that.

"Overthrow the democratically elected president, "how patriotic""

In no particulat order:

The Sate of Florida
The State of Ohio
ACORN
The Apollo Alliance
The Electoral College over the Popular Vote
The Gulf of Tonkin
The Overwhelming Support of the US Population against the Stimulus
The Patriot Act
The Gov't well aware of Pearl Harbor but ignored it so Roosevelt and Churchill could continue to write love letters to each other
Wall St Coruption
Washington Corruption
Governors resigning because of Hookers
Governors flying to Argentina for affairs
Governors issuing IOU's then taxing you on money you've yet received
Appointed Gov't officials with known communist ties
Waterboarding
Weapons of Mass Destruction
Presidents getting Blowjobs in the Oval Office
Senators covering up dissapearences of interns
Congress demanding Military Planes for personal travel at taxpayer expense
Usurping of States' Rights
Allowing Mexican Drug Cartels across our Borders unchecked
The Fed
The IRS
Lobbyists
Lying to go to War
Lying to the American Public
Taking back campaign promises
Mayors using Crack
Czars
FEMA
New Orleans and Wilma
Presidents getting impeached
Receital of the Pledge of Allegiance being found unconstitutional
The Constitution bring ignored
The Amendments being ignored
The Bill of Rights being ignored


Yeah.....All in all...seems "Democratic" and "Patriotic" to me......

Funny how many of you keep changing the subject!
You Obama is a dictator types keep changing it from"overthrowing the government, to disagreeing with the government
Well how convieneint for you! Or it just shows sloppy thinking.
As soon as we begin settling our political disagreements with gunfire, FREEDOM is dead. Then we have become a Banana Republic. Your Constitution becomes worthless. more so than under Bush or Obama.
It's a game played on ATS every day by people who have no comprehension of the seriousness of what they say. Those that deem themselves revolutionaries online are not comperable to they founders who risked everything to found our Country.
You who want Obama impeached ( for what exactly), imprisoned, hung, shot etc. are adopting the very same tactics of the regimes you claim to abhor. Mao, stalin, Castro, Hitler, you name 'em, DID IT FOR "THE PEOPLE> My ass. They were thugs that seized power by violence.
You want dictatorship? Overthrow the government. what you will get is a never ending cycle of assasination, rule by force of arms. Anytime you want a revolution and get together men the caliber of Jefferson, Washington, Franlkin, Adams, Madison etc and maybe we can talk. until then, cammo wearing, gun toting, paranoid, Obama's a commie types that wanna revolution are just common criminals.
Civilization depends on civilized behaviour and responsibility for ones words and actions. not crimes commited by malcontents and political whackos.

[edit on 12-9-2009 by OldDragger]

[edit on 12-9-2009 by OldDragger]

reply to post by cranberrydork


Despite the facts, and they are facts, that you presented it is now 2009. We have evolved and developed far beyond that time. To use what happened long ago in a different time and atmosphere as an excuse to trash all that has happened in the interim is incredibly disingenuous don't you think?

The wrongs of the past are only used as a weapon by those unwilling to face the here and now and its realities.

Many Great people, unlike the leaders we have now, sacrificed and faced ridicule and scorn as they changed the world and yes the Constitution into what it is now. Yet you throw them under the bus as a convenience when somebody does not agree with you?

This document you so readily throw in the trash is the vehicle by which this country has slowly righted the wrong in our society and moved steadily forward to a better and better world. Now some would casually throw it out based on things done generations before our birth. Thank God that is the minority point of view or we would be left open to the wiles of any charismatic cad who came along.

I watched MLK peacefully knock down the racial wall that divided us and its dis-assembly brick by brick until only a few remain.

I hid under my desk in shock and fear awaiting the nuclear holocaust that could have come at any moment only to later see the Berlin Wall come down.

I watched a country come together and in an incredibly short amount of time place Americans on the Moon.

I sat in school as they wheeled in a TV to our room so we could watch the news about Kennedy's death while they contacted our Parents so they could send us home. Businesses closed, schools closed to mourn and honor the real thing, a great man and our coming of age in realizing how easily his life was taken.

I watched the body counts every evening on the news as I approached Draft Age. I participated in peaceful protests along with others who only wanted a world filled with peace and love as I waited to see if I would be in the next group to go. I watched in horror the footage from Kent State. I breathed a sigh of relief when the Draft ended knowing full well I was not a person who could run to Canada with my tail between my legs and that I would go if it was ordered. I watched as peaceful, intelligent people brought the war to and end.

I watched another great man named Reagan bring us together again. I started out hating him but learned to respect him and his ability to bring the Partisans together when others could not.

I dug myself out of poverty and started a business with $170 that is still going strong.

All of this was possible because of the principles contained in that Document you so casually throw out with the trash. All that matters is what we are now, what that Document is now.

It always amazes me some of the things people say, honestly believing their arguments make perfect sense, with no room for correction. Believing that they are so right, that no one can argue against their almighty knowledge. Always question your government AND yourself. Are you being used? Chances are, we all are. By who? Ask ask ask ask ask. Stop pointing fingers at each other and playing the blame game. That's a distraction.

I voted for Obama. I only had 2 choices, McCain and Obama. I didn't take the decision lightly, and I do not regret my choice. I did not like McCain and what he represented. Obama was my second pick, I originally wanted to vote for Ron Paul. That wasn't a realistic option. My evaluation of Obama's presidency so far is this: Average. McCain would be doing a lot of the same stuff, certainly a lot of the stuff that Obama gets attacked for. While it's seriously doubtful McCain would even touch the health care topic, he would still be listening to advisers. How much of the "anger" is legitimately from people who have researched what they're talking about? How much is from fox news? How much of the fanatical joy is from MSNBC? Both spew lies and manipulate the truth to suit their needs. If you blindly agree with either of them, I'd suggest you re-evaluate yourself.

I've said it many times before and I'll say it again. The Obama-haters make it incredibly difficult, if not impossible, for us to legitimately criticize Obama. Anyone who tries gets thrown in to the "crazy" pile. I've lost my credibility with a few friends because of this. They're convinced I'm just trying to demonize Obama. I'm sure I'm not the only one in this situation. The further the fanatical freaks from either camp go from reality, the further they take their rivals with them. Ultimately, they serve their purpose as a distraction.

And the overthrow talk... it really is quite comical (and saddening). The Majority of voters chose Obama. Everyone who could or wanted to speak, spoke. Obama won. It may not have been a landslide (popular vote) victory. But it was a victory. Insulting people who voted for Obama tends to give the impression that you voted for the other guy and are still throwing a tantrum. It hurts your credibility. People were given a choice and a lot chose something different from you. Welcome to the human race, where we all have this miraculous power to think for ourselves instead of just listening to you. I've seen many people here use Obama as a scapegoat, but later saying they blame the government as a whole. You can't paint Obama as the most evil thing ever, then, five minutes later, give that title to something or someone else. Then, when it's convenient, switch back.