Independent Investigation Into Pentagon Attack Yields Alarming Information

reply to post by Lillydale
Speaking, of DNA, Did the DNA samples come from Building 7 ?
Have you looked into ,Barry Jennings?

He went into building 7, and was in the building before, and after the collapses.When, he went in, the lobby was fine, when the firemen, led him out,and told him not to look,down,Barry said he felt himself, stepping over, dead bodies???

Where, did these dead people, come from, that where not there,that morning,BUT! now,when he is being lead out of building 7 they, are there.

WHO? where these dead bodies?,your guys DNA samples??plane pasengers??was this the Coup de grâce? to get rid of evidence ?

Why, where federal agents keeping people from entering WTC 7?

So no one could see what was going on inside(dead bodies being planted ,papers being burned?,explosives being set up,DNA samples being taken before the bodies where completly desroyed bt the building coming down latter??

Did floor 8 blow for a reason ?where they trying to get rid of Barry then?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Full story is at this link.

You are really letting me down. Someone got some rescue workers to email him about how they felt huh? Well, that proves it all for me. I mean, all this time all I have been waiting for was someone to tell me they did an email study on how some of the rescue workers felt. That is awesome. Empirical evidence is really all that I need. When you find some, let me know. You can save your essays on what people say they felt for someone else. Would you like a list of people that have no problem going on at length about the trauma of UFO abduction? Some of them will even be willing to just come meet with you and talk about that. I am pretty sure if I dig hard enough, I can find that story about the couple who was so traumatized by bigfoot they suffered PTSD.

When you get something that actually proves there was any DNA to be collected and not just some emails about how people claim to have felt about picking it up, send me a line and then we can work on that no ARAB men on the plane issue.

reply to post by Lillydale


I had----word I meant here was "hate"---- to be crass....there are portions in that LINK if you would just read it...I thought better against actually copying them and pasting in the thread.

It is quite gruesome....the descriptions of body parts. YOU SEE, in an event such as this, the bodies (stop reading here if you're squeamish)....





-----------------------------------
.....are shredded in multiple ways. Get into reading it, you will find that the hardest psychologically to deal with were the recognizable bodies and parts - which makes sense. Interesting even for those IN the field of EMT and trauma maedicine and such, were affected so drastically.

Of course....with a person's head in the sand, not wanting to believe AT ALL that there were victims in the terrorist attacks, then all of this is make-believe.

To not realize that, in the crash sequence, the passengers' and crews' bodies were put through the equivalent of a food processor, in some cases...and that even WITH a raging fires, "stuff" is still scattered all over the place....not ALL of it was burned.

Anyone with a hint of reason can understand that........

[edit on 30 September 2009 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by lycopersicum


I have hear Jennings account of stepping over the bodies and it had not occurred to me this might be those passengers but who knows. Logistically there was enough time to gas the plane and take the bodies to NY and get them inside 7. Interesting thought

reply to post by Lillydale


????????????

So now, when the going gets tough, it's time to shoot the messenger????

OK...I see clearly now. "Truth" isn't the goal here. Is it?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Lillydale

 

????????????

So now, when the going gets tough, it's time to shoot the messenger????

OK...I see clearly now. "Truth" isn't the goal here. Is it?

Noooooooooo. I said nothing about shooting the messenger. My stand has never changed. I have not swayed one bit from what I said would satisfy me - proof that there was any tissue to be found and that the DNA survived when not only did the bodies not but neither did the plane. At least two people here have not claimed there are photos of dead passengers, where are they? Several people have claimed there is a mountain of evidence, undeniable evidence, and so on like that. Where is it? In this mountain of undeniable evidence and photos, the best you can come up with is one person's account of other people's accounts of how they FELT?????? It says right in there that there was no empirical study being done. It was all about feelings and not facts. What is that supposed to prove???????

Mountain!
Undeniable!
Photos!

and this is all you bring to the table?

reply to post by Lillydale
That why , I mentioned it . You look to me ,like someone that dose good research, so i mentioned it. Check his interviews out, right before he died???? Good info.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Lillydale

 

I had----word I meant here was "hate"---- to be crass....there are portions in that LINK if you would just read it...I thought better against actually copying them and pasting in the thread.

It is quite gruesome....the descriptions of body parts. YOU SEE, in an event such as this, the bodies (stop reading here if you're squeamish)....

Really? My favorite fun horror movies are Final Destination and SAW so squeamish is not at all an issue. It is still email correspondence of how a few people say they felt about what they claim they saw with no empirical evidence whatsoever. I read it. It can get as gruesome and detailed as they like, that does not change the facts that what you are claiming is that these people are responding to how they felt about collecting tissue at a crash scene the vaporized the plane they were on.

But hey, you keep providing all the crap you can aside from the simple things that I said would satisfy me. If you have the truth and all this evidence on your side, would you have to grab apartment fires and email essays about feelings to try to prove it to me?

Hey, you let me know. Whenever you get sick of this, just say the word. Then you can explain to me why you believe the Official Story when the Official Autopsy reports claim no Arab men - but all the terrorists were identified by DNA, including the alive ones.

I really do not care which one you want to try to deflect and distract from. If you ever get around to finding that mountain of evidence though, let me know so we can get serious about this.

reply to post by Lillydale
Yeah , and remember it had ,underground road to the air port, and all over NYC ,,just saying ,

With your mind ,and the way you think, and you seem to be very articulate,and seem to be able to type well,I suck at it.

Would love, maybe for you to ponder on it, if you know what i meam

EDIT to add .

Sorry for interrupting you and weedwacks discussion.

[edit on 30-9-2009 by lycopersicum]

Originally posted by lycopersicum
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Yeah , and remember it had ,underground road to the air port, and all over NYC ,,just saying ,

With your mind ,and the way you think, and you seem to be very articulate,and seem to be able to type well,I suck at it.

Would love, maybe for you to ponder on it, if you know what i meam

EDIT to add .

Sorry for interrupting you and weedwacks discussion.

[edit on 30-9-2009 by lycopersicum]

LOL, I think WW needed and much appreciates it as he has been trying desperately to find something that will pass for evidence for quite some time now. Besides, this is an open forum and I am certainly grateful for anything that might connect some dots.

Unless you have some collection of emails about how people felt about the underground transport, then that should really be worth something eh?

reply to post by Lillydale

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by scott3x

Originally posted by LightFantastic
Even if the passengers were turned into a red patch in the debris by the collision, there would still be viable DNA found. DNA is very hardy.

Where did you get this notion that DNA is hardy?

Come on, it must be hardy if it can survive the circumstances that will completely disintegrate an entire plane.

You don't honestly believe -I- think that the plane even -hit- the pentagon, do you?

Originally posted by Lillydale
But anyway, recently I was reading about how the DNA had to be hardy because the sea creatures that live on volcano shafts in the Ocean. What they left out was that DNA is plenty hardy while it is still part of a living organism. Apparently certain proteins the body produces helps to protect DNA from things like heat. The problem is that when people die, their body stops generating these proteins.

My problem is not so much with the fact that any DNA collection from the Pentagon "crash" scene is laughable at best. I do not understand why when these people pushing this story do not acknowledge that according to those DNA tests they want to cite as proof, no Arab men were found.

I suppose they could say that their DNA was conveniently the only DNA that the wall breaking fireball consumed :-p. What I'd like to know is who, precisely, within the FBI claims to have collected all this DNA? And as you allude to, why is it that, according to the official story, the DNA was hardier than, say, the airplane wings?

Originally posted by Lillydale
It seems to me that either there was no DNA to collect or there was but the plane was not hijacked by 5 Arab men. Either way doesn't the OS fall apart?

Well, as you can see, I've given the OS believers something to cling to above in regards to both of those things. But I think I've also made it clear that even with the above mentioned possibilities, many questions remain.

Originally posted by scott3x
You don't honestly believe -I- think that the plane even -hit- the pentagon, do you?

No, I was using sarcasm. I was hoping the context given by the rest of my post would make that apparent. My apologies. You do not honestly believe I think the DNA was hardier than EVERYTHING ELSE on, in, and part of the plane do you?

reply to post by Lillydale

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by scott3x
You don't honestly believe -I- think that the plane even -hit- the pentagon, do you?

No, I was using sarcasm. I was hoping the context given by the rest of my post would make that apparent. My apologies.

It's ok ;-)

Originally posted by Lillydale
You do not honestly believe I think the DNA was hardier than EVERYTHING ELSE on, in, and part of the plane do you?

No ;-p

[edit on 30-9-2009 by scott3x]

reply to post by Lillydale

Photos of bodies from the Pentagon. These were not "vaporized" nor was the airplane. Perhaps you misread that part.

911research.wtc7.net...

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Photos of bodies from the Pentagon. These were not "vaporized" nor was the airplane. Perhaps you misread that part.

911research.wtc7.net...

Really? Again???????

These are not the bodies of passengers....again, Pteridine.

reply to post by Lillydale


"confuse and deflect"??? Is that what YOU said? Wow!

...the Official Autopsy reports claim no Arab men - but all the terrorists were identified by DNA, including the alive ones.

SO....you wish to claim that from the DNA they can determine region of origin? Dr. Mengele, meet Lillydale.....

Earlier you said there was NO human remains (I believe you said "tissue") at the Pentagon, but NOW you are admitting they found DNA???

You really are either getting poor information from somewhere, and cannot see that it is contradictory, or else you actually cannot see the problems with your logic.

You dismiss actual accounts, because they are not up to your "standards", whatever THOSE are....simply astonishing.

Earlier in this thread I saw an external source snippet someone found about crematoria....but, you dismiss that?

In case you forgot, it had to do with procedures for processing the cremains at sufficiently high temperatures for sufficiently long times to meet certain standards. Anyway, the implication was that even in the fire of a crematorium, IF it isn't hot enough or long enough certain biological tissues may till survive the process.

I dare say a crematorium's furnace is hotter than found in the fires at the Pentagon...why not research that and 'debunk' me???

No.....it's certainly better to stick to ignorance, isn't it?

Practicing to be a trial lawyer someday, are you? Because twisting and dodging to the best of one's ability IS a tried and true courtroom tactic...at least, on TV courtroom dramas.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Lillydale

 

"confuse and deflect"??? Is that what YOU said? Wow!

Yes, that is why I said. Care to share an example of me doing that?

I did not think so.

SO....you wish to claim that from the DNA they can determine region of origin? Dr. Mengele, meet Lillydale.....

Actually yes DNA can determine race but that is not what happened here. See if you can follow along because I will dumb it down as much as I can.

"DNA sample 1 turns out to be......John Smith. Where is John from? Florida, ok next.

DNA sample 2 turns out to be.....Joe Duddly. Where is he from? Kentucky, ok next." and on in that fashion. Is that clear?

Earlier you said there was NO human remains (I believe you said "tissue") at the Pentagon, but NOW you are admitting they found DNA???

I am going to stop responding to you if you are going to refuse to read what I am actually posting. What did I say about the DNA? I said it at least twice now so either go look or keep saying stupid things in response.

You really are either getting poor information from somewhere, and cannot see that it is contradictory, or else you actually cannot see the problems with your logic.

No problem with my logic, the problem is you either not taking the time or having the ability to read.

You dismiss actual accounts, because they are not up to your "standards", whatever THOSE are....simply astonishing.

Earlier in this thread I saw an external source snippet someone found about crematoria....but, you dismiss that?

In case you forgot, it had to do with procedures for processing the cremains at sufficiently high temperatures for sufficiently long times to meet certain standards. Anyway, the implication was that even in the fire of a crematorium, IF it isn't hot enough or long enough certain biological tissues may till survive the process.

I dare say a crematorium's furnace is hotter than found in the fires at the Pentagon...why not research that and 'debunk' me???

No.....it's certainly better to stick to ignorance, isn't it?

Practicing to be a trial lawyer someday, are you? Because twisting and dodging to the best of one's ability IS a tried and true courtroom tactic...at least, on TV courtroom dramas.

What have I twisted and dodged? I have been pretty consistent. I want to see a different coroner's report, photos, or some official account of the bodies recovered at the crime scene. This would have all been heavily documented and all you can give me is anecdotes.

You say I deflect and dodge when I have asked for the same thing over and over and have not swayed from that. Maybe if you slow down and read again, you will understand why you are mistaken about the DNA thing. Other than that there is NO excuse for confusion. I have not wavered. I have not dodged. I have no deflected. Feel free to quote me doing so.

As for your request, my pleasure. Please enjoy -

But the core of the fire went on for days. Firefighters on the scene spoke of the [WWW]huge heat of the fire:

* "The firemen were appreciative, as the heat inside the building was, in their words, "unbelievable." It was reported that at least three of the fireman had to be given IV fluids due to the extreme heat" [WWW] Terry Morin
* "We're having a lot of trouble in there. It's about 3,000 degrees inside"

Source

and.........

How hot does the oven get? Although there are several manufacturers of cremation units, the optimum temperature range is 1600 degrees to 1800 degrees Fahrenheit.

How long does it take to cremate a body? Cremating at the optimum temperature (1600 - 1800 degrees), the average weighted remains takes 2 to 2 1/2 hours. Several more hours may be required before the cremated remains are available to the family. Go To Top

Hmmm so what is the score now?

3000 degrees X 72+ hours

vs.

1600-1800 degrees times 2-2.5 hours

Yeah, no thats close. Good calling me out on that.

reply to post by Lillydale


Your original statement: "You are like a bad headache. STR is for tissue samples that have been exposed to heat or stress. The Pentagon crash scene was hot enough to "blow a hole in the wall with just the resulting fireball." The crash scene also had no tissue samples. You show me one tooth, one fingernail that was found. Microscopic DNA samples will not survive that kind of heat the completely destroys metal, brick, and almost 70 people. STR is real handy, sometimes."

----The bodies were at the crash scene. They were sources of tissue samples. Why do you think the heat at the crash scene was the "kind of heat... that...."completely destroyed" brick and metal? Note the metal seen in the pictures is not destroyed much at all. You have no idea of the amount of heat at the crash scene, do you, lillydale?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Lillydale

 

"confuse and deflect"??? Is that what YOU said? Wow!

...the Official Autopsy reports claim no Arab men - but all the terrorists were identified by DNA, including the alive ones.

SO....you wish to claim that from the DNA they can determine region of origin? Dr. Mengele, meet Lillydale.....

This is actually my area of expertise and I can tell you that as un-PC as this sounds ethnicity can be determined from DNA. Or was that not the implication?

Hi again.

I reviewed the photos and nowhere does it say that the photographs are of "passengers". They are trial photographs and reference victims. Can you please send another link (you or anyone) that says "passengers" of the planes? If not this will just keep going.

Those bodies could be employees of the Pentagon, if you understand my point. Sending a link to "passengers" would help all of the rest of us reading these posts and trying to follow along.