Independent Investigation Into Pentagon Attack Yields Alarming Information

Originally posted by mmiichael

I would think anyone with half a brain would figure out that the temperatures and degree of destruction were not uniform throughout.

The closest to impact cockpit and front end of the fuselage were demolished. Ironically the tail section was pushed through endin up deepest into the wreckage. So the bodies of people at those back of the rear end of the plane came through relatively intact, away from the intensest heat.

Parts like teeth and bone were used for identifying passengers. Most were identified, nothing was found of some, like a 2-year old old girl onboard. It's likely the hijackers were all in the cockpit at the very end.

M

Ummmm....then why does the autopsy report claim that everyone was identified including 1 more person than was on the manifest?

Originally posted by mmiichael
This is information from people who were there and forensic specialists who dealt with the clean up. Their data is a matter of public record. I am not their librarian, but you can look for yourself any time. If you have any capabilities.



Don't delude yourself into thinking you know anything beyond fantasy notions.

Let me ask you, Weedwhacker, JThomas, and the rest of your ilk something. Do things ever turn out to be true just because you say them more than once in complete contradiction to the facts? You all seem to keep trying.

Originally posted by mmiichael
People reading this thread can see for themselves. Names of organizations who dealt with passenger remains are there. Names of eyewitnesses are there.

Those questioning the reliability of this information can contact these people directly.

Just do NOT contact the Coroner's Office and the Medical Examiner. They have different stories than each other as well as MMiiicchhaaeell.

Contact any of the private citizens you cannot look up or the private labs that will say they cannot talk but DO NOT CONTACT THE ME OR THE CO!!!

AS I HAVE BEEN SAYING.
IT´S USELESS...

Originally posted by rush969
AS I HAVE BEEN SAYING.
IT´S USELESS...

Well it isn't useless.

Hopefully the debate will get people to research 9/11 for themselves.

Please Research 9/11 Your Self !

Don't believe the theories.

Instead, observer the science.

There is so much disinformation about this complicated topic that it may seem like too much to handle but if you look at some specific details the conclusion is VERY obvious.

Look at the photos of the crash at the pentagon.
Look at the video of the crash at the pentagon.
Look into the vertical beams of WTC 1 and 2.
Look into cases of other buildings on fire.
Look at videos of controlled demolition.

Don't trust anything anyone says, you owe it to yourself and the people who died to do the research.

You don´t solve much, just looking at you-tube videos and listening and reading stuff made up by people with no professional training or education in the things that they present or discuss. People blinded by their bias on issues that refuse to review all evidence available and focus their theories on the ideas put forward by a minority of pseudo expert pseudo scientists and pseudo professionals who are just taking your money away on books and CD s.
What does good though is to try and learn from the professionals on the different areas.
Like experts on demolition of buildings who will tell you (about 98% of them) that there´s no way those buildings could have been prept and taken down with explosive demolition.
Experts on aviation who will tell you (about 98% of them) that those maneuvers made by the hijacked planes are no big deal for a person with some flying experience and basic knowledge of the plane they are riding. (The hard part of flying is procedures and overcoming abnormal situations with safety in mind, not aiming your plane at a building.)
Experts on fire fighting who will tell you (about 98% of them) that yes, those fires (unfought as they were) together with the damage those buildings had will take down the building.
Experts on structural engineering who will tell you (about 98% of them) that yes, those buildings can collapse in that way because of the way they were built. That what you see in those videos is not explosives but the building structure coming appart.
Looking at the lists of dozens of eyewitnesses that saw the airliners hit the WTC and the Pentagon and not just the few who are being instructed on what to say, years after the events.


[edit on 5-10-2009 by rush969]

[edit on 5-10-2009 by rush969]

reply to post by rush969


What kind of credentials do you have that I should believe you and your support of the official story?

Why should I believe you rather than these guys?

www.patriotsquestion911.com...

When the official story supporters resort to name calling; they lose credibility. They seriously need to review this thread and not to resort to such transparent debate tactics.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by rush969

You don´t solve much, just looking at you-tube videos and listening and reading stuff made up by people with no professional training or education in the things that they present or discuss.

Thanks for officially telling us to ignore you. Seeing as how I do not get my info from ANY youtube videos and anything I read on the internet I actually go and research for real, you are guessing or projecting. Either way you are wrong and have presented no reason to believe you are any more than what you just told us is not worth listening to.

reply to post by whaaa


I don´t know what good my credentials would be to you since you will probably question them.
I am an aviation professional with 30 years experience.
I will share with you that I tried to participate in the “pilots for 9/11 truth” web site but I got banned for expressing my opinion. Since it was not of Mr. Balsamo´s liking, he gave me the boot...
That was really ridiculous. I only tried to be positive and respectful at all times.
But that´s not what we want to talk about, is it?
You want sources of good, reliable information. Provided by experts in each field that´s being discussed, right?
The problem is that the sources have been disqualified a priori by the “truthers”. NIST, THE FAA, THE USAF, NYFD, NYPD, THE FBI, FEMA, several universities, AMERICAN AIRLINES, UNITED AIRLINES, the NTSB, dozens of verifiable eyewitnesses and many many more institutions and corporations. They are no good anymore. Nothing of what they say or write is believable. They are on a payroll, or simply “enemy” agents. They are ALL part of the conspiracy. And of course we are running out of sources that can be trusted. The few sources that we are supposed to trust are a Mr. Cage, a Mr. Griffin, a Ms. Juddy Wood, a Professor Fetzer and Dr. Steven Jones. Oh and of course the guys from CIT, Alex Jones, Balsamo and a few palls he hangs around with, and the groups that follow these “opinion leaders”. Not interested, thank you. (They just want your money!!!)
Griffin.- Professor of religion and theology...turned into expert on explosive demolition.
Fetzer.- Professor of Philosophy...also turned into expert of all demolition related subjects, as well as yet to be developed weapon technology. (To be used even from outer space if need be.)

reply to post by rush969

Originally posted by rush969
reply to post by whaaa

 

I don´t know what good my credentials would be to you since you will probably question them.
I am an aviation professional with 30 years experience.
I will share with you that I tried to participate in the “pilots for 9/11 truth” web site but I got banned for expressing my opinion. Since it was not of Mr. Balsamo´s liking, he gave me the boot...
That was really ridiculous. I only tried to be positive and respectful at all times.
But that´s not what we want to talk about, is it?

Perhaps that would be considered off topic in this thread, so I created a new thread with a response to this post of yours here:
Pilots for 9/11 Truth and the 9/11 planes

Originally posted by warrenb
reply to post by burntheships

 

and everyone forgets the convenient fact that the office that was struck was

...the ill-fated Pentagon accounting office, most of which was obliterated along with Naval Intelligence that day, both keepers of many lost secrets.

onlinejournal.com...

Just what was contained in that room?
I would love to know

I have an ex in law whose aunt supposably works in that wing of the building and auntie and all her files were moved to another location for 'remodeling'.

reply to post by rush969


And what, pray tell, is wrong with having a PhD in Religion and Theology?

*taps foot*

Some people with PhDs have diversified fields. I am an archaeologist with a PhD in Near Eastern History. Look at my PhD and it looks like I am a historian. Look at my other degrees and I have a background that includes DNA testing, geological testing, etc. At the very least, it shows that he knows how to do research and have that research pass a review of his peers.

You can tell me about flying and I can tell you about what happens to DNA in an oven. Maybe we pool our collective experiences to figure out what happened together (even if it makes us feel uncomfortable) instead of all of us sniping each other, yes?

At the very least it would be a neat board experiment...

Originally posted by A Fortiori
You can tell me about flying and I can tell you about what happens to DNA in an oven.

Knowing what happens to DNA in an oven is one thing. Knowing what happens to DNA laden matter in that sort of a collision is another.

You could be correct that all the DNA from the plane is contained in the collision and destroyed by the fire. Or you could be wrong. The only way to get an idea is by experimentation.

I don't know a lot about these sort of collisions but I guess a human body would splash a long way, possibly out of the reach of the fire. I guess high speed impacts are out of your area of expertise too.

I am basically trying to argue that finding DNA is not strong evidence against the OS.



[edit on 16/10/2009 by LightFantastic]

reply to post by LightFantastic


Yes it is. The OS states that they gathered DNA at the scene. The OS states there were no remains to be gathered at the scene. The OS contradicts itself without apology. The autopsy report for that incident has DNA results for every person on the passenger list as well as the crew. They do not have 5 extra Arab men though. There are no Arab names on the passenger list and none of the names of the people we were told we those hijackers. All of this contradictory evidence is not an issue with you?

Edited out the rude part as it was uncalled for.

[edit on 10/16/09 by Lillydale]

reply to post by DChenO


Very Interesting...was that before the 9/11 explosions?
I have read about that happening to a number of employees, and find it suspicious.

Along with the one mother taking her baby into work, as the day care was closed. She crawled out the whole, with her child and did not see an airplane. In the hospital she was vistied, and told her memories were "not correct" . Yea, right!

Too many coincidences.

If the fire was hot enough o destroy the plane it would have also make it hard to get good DNA for ID back at that time.

That is why NIST had to come up with new testing. The new tests were not ready untill 2002 (after the DNA IDs).

Originally posted by DChenO

I have an ex in law whose aunt supposably works in that wing of the building and auntie and all her files were moved to another location for 'remodeling'.

Originally posted by TheAntiHero420

In 1993, the Pentagon began undergoing a renovation project that would modernize the largest office building in the nation. The first phase, in Wedge 1, was five days from completion sign off and turnover to the government when Flight 77 hit. MCAA member Masonry Arts, Bessemer, Ala. was the contractor installing the blast wall system reinforcement and blast resistant window in Wedge 1.

Bartram notes, "The plane hit in an almost perfect spot to prevent even greater loss of life. What you saw collapse was an expansion joint that it hit. When it knocked out all the columns on the first floor, the rest of the building held for about 35 minutes and then it collapsed. We feel that if it hadn't hit that expansion joint, there would have been a hole in the first and second floor and that would have been it. The third, fourth and fifth floors would have stood."

The official report of the attack states:

"Three measures taken during the renovation of Wedge 1 to reinforce the inner and outer walls served to dramatically slow the plane as it entered the building, reduced the extent to which it penetrated the rings, and prevented the immediate collapse of the structure directly above the area of impact. Despite the tremendous impact of the plane and the fire that was fed by the plane's fuel, the 'web' created by the blast-resistant windows, steel columns, and geo-technical mesh, held the building together for 35 minutes, giving many Pentagon employees, some located directly above the area of impact, time to escape.

PenRen Article

Well I suppose we should thank the workers for doing a great job on blast proofing the only wall to ever get hit (slight sarcasm). Notice that the project started in 1993, I'm sure the terrorists would have done a little investigation.





Interesting flight path just to hit that one wall, it just doesn't make any sense.

Posted it earlier in the thread, but is that the remodeling you were talking about?

[edit on 10/17/2009 by TheAntiHero420]

Originally posted by Lillydale
Yes it is. The OS states that they gathered DNA at the scene. The OS states there were no remains to be gathered at the scene. The OS contradicts itself without apology.

Edited out the rude part as it was uncalled for.

I wouldn't have thought that DNA would have been classed as "remains". In addition I can find no data on what happens to DNA in such a impact. It could spread for hundreds of yards, out of reach of the fire.

I can see that many in this thread don't want to reason so I think I will leave it here. I have no opinion on whether the OS is true or not.

reply to post by A Fortiori


There´s nothing wrong with having a PhD in theology and religion. As long as the holder sticks to discussing theology and religion. You for instance have knowledge about DNA testing, and you can tell us what happens with DNA in a hot oven. Very good. However I don´t see how that has anything to to with the DNA at the Pentagon.
You should know that very small remains (strands of hair, tiny pieces of bones, a tooth, part of a finger) or a few drops of blood is enough to make a DNA identification. These are all things that could have easily been there, and in fact, are described by the first responders at the scene. And they are documented also, I´m sure you know.

reply to post by rush969

You for instance have knowledge about DNA testing, and you can tell us what happens with DNA in a hot oven. Very good. However I don´t see how that has anything to to with the DNA at the Pentagon.

Because as witnesses said it was comparable to an oven in there. So I suppose that would be the reason.