The EU conspiracy. Wake up ATS!

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
lol a fourth reich?

You guys are crazy!!!

If you're right, at least I want a cool uniform... I mean the third had them, so the fourth has to get them also!

EU conspiracy... lol god...

If you believe in the one-world government theory, and Rockefeller will gladly tell you that is what the world needs, then a unified Europe makes sense because it consolidates power under a central government as it weakens the countries' power included. What do you think will happen after the North American Union sets in, the African Union and the Asian Union? They will be erased under the United Nations!

It's funny because london is the real ruler of the world, we should not be worried about the Fed or the EU. Why? The banks in london, thats why. BTW this may be off topic but, it's not pronounced

roths child

Its a german name, therefore

rot shielt
end rant

Is anything done in the interest of the people anymore? Is it all about money and business? I'm trying so hard to see the good in everything but when the people in power continue to lie and manipulate us so they can continue to drink in private members clubs and drive big cars. It's sickening.

You know what YOU are the sheep. Taking an idea that has been around the Internet for over a decade, then shouting at a conspiracy site to 'Wake UP!' why the hell do people do that?

I am ignoring this thread an not even reading the first post. most of us already know about this crap. we cant really do anything about it,belive it or not. so strap yourself in and just enjoy the ride.

And if you gonna last here, stop using the phrase, 'wake up' it is stupid and will only find your way to many peoples ignore list.


[edit on 22-8-2009 by MR BOB]

reply to post by Yossarian


I agree....but sadly it is not about private clubs, drinking and cars....get your point though. It sickens me that these soul-less bas tards can even think of, let alone do, the countless evil things being done to each and every human being on this planet....wake up people, you may not feel it now, but your in for a rude awaking.

reply to post by MR BOB



True, most enlightened people already know this but I know a lot of people who haven't a clue. We may be powerless right now but the first step is awareness. The more we share ideas, the more we can learn. There are many threads that can be considered 100 times more useless than this one but thanks to ATS they can all exist together. It's perfectly fine if you don't want to participate in this thread but don't knock the ones who do.

Originally posted by Advancedboy
Interestingly why did germany join EU. They have export balance in excess of 1 trillion dollars, the biggest in the world. If they kept deutchmark it would be a very stable currency. Now the value of Euro is diluted by various member countries that have no meaningful manufacturing and exports By loosing the strong currency germans were aiming for something else- annihilation of customs barrier to their products within Europe, that would seemingly counterbalance the loss of national currency. Yet the GDP per capita was diluted also by East Germany as well. manufacturing countries are always interested in Unions that destroy trade barriers and customs barriers. This way they can attack markets of smaller countries and rip them in shreds by wiping out competition and dismantling all trade and customs barriers.

the germans did NOT vote to join the EU. most of my german friends were against it and in 2002 when the Euro started its official life they got pay cuts of almost 50% (2000 DM = 1000 EUR at that time) but all the prices were just switched from DM to EUR (10 DM = 10 EUR). it's not fun to see your pockets half empty overnight!

their lawmakers decided for the whole country to not put it up for a vote because Germany was and still is Europe's engine and without it there would be no euro or EU. they knew the german people would say NO so they didn't even go there.

reply to post by DarkSecret


A couple of errors that I HAVE to correct here..

Germany was one of the founding members of the EU.. they didn't join it, they created the base for it back in 1957 with BeNeLux, France and Italy in the form of the Coal and Steel treaty.

So they wouldn't have had a vote to join it because it was a trade partnership to begin with and has progressed from there. They have had the opportunity to vote on a number of treaties, just not Lisbon.

And to answer the question of why they joined in the first place..
The did so in order to ensure another war like WW1 and WW2 would never happen again in Europe.

Originally posted by DarkSecret
when the Euro started its official life they got pay cuts of almost 50% (2000 DM = 1000 EUR at that time) but all the prices were just switched from DM to EUR (10 DM = 10 EUR). it's not fun to see your pockets half empty overnight!

Fair enough, people got screwed with the conversion - ie. Prices went up, wages went down but only like 1 - 2%. Not 50%. That would completely crash an economy. Whoever is telling you that is waaaay waaaaay waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over exaggerating.

The value of the DM was fixed against the EURO in 1999 like every other currency. The DM's value didn't double in three years.

DM to euro as DM 1.95583 = one euro - click

I´d just like to comment on a few things...

Originally posted by Alternative Thinker
...The whole of Europe have slowly been transformed from beeing a simple trade agreement to beeing an united nation, with common laws and soon a giant army, which can be controlled by only one man (Javier Solana.. Do some research!!). ...

Maybe you should start with the research. At no point in its existence and prior genesis was the EU a "simple trade agreement". Everyone knew that the goal was integration.

Originally posted by Kram09
...Well if the E.U do end up pulling a stunt like that, they forfeit any right to call themselves a "democracy" in my eyes.

The EU is not a democracy. It is half a republic, and half an agency running on behalf of the member countries, which are republics as well. Democratically elected republics, yes. But no "democracies". That is a HUGE difference, for the better.

It is not beneficial, not practical, not feasible and above all not necessary to introduce more "democracy" into top level government proceedings.

Originally posted by Turtledub
...
a poster above said that Ireland has had a hell of alot of investment from the EU, correct, alot of our new roads etc are 80% funded by the EU. but does that mean we should be made feel guilty? feel forced into passing an unjust treaty just cause we were given a helping hand by the EU? one of the core values of the EU is the larger richer nations help the smaller less well off ones.....

It means that you guys should understand what is happening in the EU and WHY this money is passed around, which is the gradual levelling of the playing field - a process that was made possible by the EU integration and CAN ONLY CONTINUE with sacrifices made by ALL members. Ireland is not supposed to feel guilty - it is supposed to do their part now as well and not to say "Thanks for the cheque, I´m out!".

The era of nationstates is at a turning point in Europe; partly because nationstates in the classical sense are rapidly becoming obsolete by the success of the EU.

Originally posted by Yossarian
Is anything done in the interest of the people anymore? Is it all about money and business? I'm trying so hard to see the good in everything but when the people in power continue to lie and manipulate us so they can continue to drink in private members clubs and drive big cars. It's sickening.

You could start with appreciating 60 years of peace and zero chance for changing that in the foreseeable future. Or that EU members all place highest on quality of living. Or that the EU has among the lowest income disparity of the world.

Lastly, I´d like to warn of putting too much faith in the mythical "the people", thats almost american in its naivetée. The reason why most of the European integration process is led by business is that business is a lot less lazy to change, develop and reinvent itself than "the people". Our nationstates have always been run by the better, brighter and subsequently richer part of the population. And in the last decades, that hasnt exactly hurt us, has it?

Originally posted by Dermo
....
Fair enough, people got screwed with the conversion - ie. Prices went up, wages went down but only like 1 - 2%. Not 50%. That would completely crash an economy. Whoever is telling you that is waaaay waaaaay waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over exaggerating. ....

I agree, What was said is simply untrue. German shops were forced to carry both old and new prices for several months. There were VERY few cases on the fringes of economy where prices were doubled - none of it significant AND to be blamed on the respective business, not the EURO.

The problem in the public perception was that the EURO introduction occured during a german recession, with a major misharvest in Europe and further upward price corrections that would have happened with the old DM as well.

None of this was the fault of the EU, or the EURO.

[edit on 22/8/2009 by Lonestar24]

Originally posted by Esrom Escutcheon Esquire
reply to post by DChenO

 

I think that the Gallileo is actually ment to be the replacement to the Hubble..?

its a major GPS navigation system for one thing...

[edit on 22-8-2009 by DChenO]

reply to post by MR BOB


Please Mr. Bob, push the ignore button on me......please. I can do without your comments as well.....The use of the phase "wake up" is out of pure frustration of what this world is becoming. I am cofident that the majority of ATSers are well informed. Maybe if you look into the meaning of the words, instead of just the words, you would understand this. The only question I have is "Why am I wasting my time typing this"?

Originally posted by Lonestar24


You could start with appreciating 60 years of peace and zero chance for changing that in the foreseeable future. Or that EU members all place highest on quality of living. Or that the EU has among the lowest income disparity of the world.




....

America has had a lot of in border 'peace' and the question remains 'whose peace was disturbed to pay for our joint high quality of living'? Surely those in third world countries or the Middle East? And the quality of living in the US has been significantly higher than Europas for the middle and upper class. While the poor here are significantly poorer.

I know a business man who sells a machine and makes one quarter million US$ per year. His German counter part, same level in business, same machine makes US$ 60,000.

Socialism is just a more effective form of Feudalism than Capitalism and it too treats the chosen people relatively better than the poor, who are just in other countries or continents. Europe's minority populations are rather small compared to the US.


cheers...


Afghanistan is the geographically central strategic point with access to Asia, Europe, the Middle East and Northern Africa. Historically due to the extreme terrain it has never been usurped. It will secure a holy war.




[edit on 22-8-2009 by DChenO]

[edit on 22-8-2009 by DChenO]

The EU is neither a democracy or a republic, it's a supranational organisation. The EU is not a state.

In short, the EU followed the EEC who followed the ECSC.
The ECSC (European Coal and Steel Community) is a supranational organisation created by the Treaty of Paris in 1951. The ECSC put the production of steel and coal under the tutelle of a supranational authority (High Authority) with the executive power on any question regarding the production and trade of coal and steel. The goal was economic development and to intertwine France and West Germany's economies and to create common economic interests to prevent a new war. The 6 signatories are Belgium, FRG, France, Italy, Luxemburg and the Netherlands.
So it did not start exactly with a trade agreement but sort of, it was an economical cooperation.

I believe integration was on the mind of the supporters of the treaty but on a century scale at least. Anyway, it was not a new idea that, in order to achieve peace and end wars, mankind have to unite at one point but it was an utopia. Maybe they had this on mind but I think it was almost unthinkable at the time.
Victor Hugo made a famous speech about European Brotherhood : My Revenge is Fraternity!

The problem is not the union, it is who rules over it and for whom ? The ECSC reached all its goals marvelously. The EU is far away from the people now. It's corporation centered.


[edit on 22-8-2009 by Manouche]

Originally posted by wayno
I can't imagine the burden of living under not only local and national laws but also the extra layer of multi-national laws imposed by the EU.

It has to be stifling.

I don't think so.

Here in Portugal there are no "local laws", and the national laws are the only ones that can be applied, there are no EU laws.

When the EU makes a new "law", it must be turned into a national version for each country, and each country has some time to do it. If they take too long to turn it into a national law then they are usually warned and if they continue not to turn it into a national law then some penalties are applied, usually reduced money benefits from the EU.

Originally posted by Alternative Thinker
I continue to be amazed about the lack of interrest for the EU here on ATS, the worlds biggest conspiracy forum.

Maybe it's because the subject does not belong on a conspiracy forum?

I can't imagine the burden of living under not only local and national laws but also the extra layer of multi-national laws imposed by the EU.

It has to be stifling.

You can rest assured... it ain't.
(And I am pretty sure that the great majority of EU citizens - excluding certain branches, like farmers, etc. - couldn't even tell what comes from "Brussels" and what from their local national governments.)

I understand where you're coming from - really, I do.
And it's not a perfect arrangement, far from it - after all, it was made by humans, for humans - but the FACT is, the union is long proven to be a boon in more than one vital area (education, preservation of vital national heritage, including many minoritary languages - that would have been LOST without the EU-imposed standards of protection, etc.).

If I recall the Irsh are the only EU nation where the PEOPLE have a direct vote. Thanl goodness for that.

What do you mean?
As far as *I* can recall - and I have lived in several EU countries (still am) - ALL nations in the EU have direct voting (by the "people").
And the results of such referendums ARE binding - in some cases legally, in others morally (which in effect means that a government can, in theory, disregard the electoral outcome - but kiss its mandate goodbye on he next national elections.)






[edit on 22-8-2009 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by Alternative Thinker
...alot of you members are from the US, and that the most obvious conspiracies take place there.
But for crying out loud, take a look at what's happening over here.

I apologize on behalf of myself and my fellow Americans. But you have to understand, for the most part, many of us over here are pretty tired of being hated and insulted by Europeans at nearly every turn. If I see "stupid American(s)" one more time I am gonna go off.

Remember, I haven't used the words "all' or "everyone", and am not referring to opinions of our government. There are those that are perfectly friendly on both sides of the pond, and negativity against our gov is understandable. But I find more negative comments directed toward us from non-US individuals than positive. Do we deserve it? Are we any worse than other individuals in other countries?

That could be part of why many over here do not pay very close attention to the EU. We are just tired of getting burned 9 out of 10 times when we offer an opinion or solution.

Good thread though. s&f

some of the dates in the video are more than 7 years old. any news of whats been goin on in britain recently?

reply to post by Manouche


The EU is much like the thirteen colonies. A small tiny "federal" government is slowly being formed.. strengthened by treaties, like Lisbon.. the form will look much like the Early Republic of the US....

The US States all have constitutions, we were all once independant to some degree .. it wasn't until the civil war, which by proportion was one of the deadliest wars ever fought.. the State identities were destroyed, and the massive, corrupt, and all powerful Federal Government is what we have..

This may or may not be the fate of Europe... but I believe eventually it will be. There is to much power.. to much wealth .. and the politically correct secular movement is destroying State identities.. you will be melded into a super state, it will be a republic..

Once a government is formulated it will never stop consolidating until it is destroyed..

reply to post by Alternative Thinker

We have known about the threat of the New World Order over
here and most of us saw the EU for what is really was.

After all the one thing you can count on a politician to do is lie.

Also in regards to Europe ppl love socialism over there, so trying to
sell our perspective over there is a pretty hard sell.

Here in the US our ears perked up when Bush Sr. started yacking
New World Order at one of his speeches.

For those who are in the know, they know the Georgia Guidestones
has been sitting there for 3 decades.

Most of us here have known about Bohemian Grove and Skull and
Bones for years, the Rothschilds have been known for what they
are for many decades as well.

Same for the other true ruling families who pull puppet strings
from the shadows.

The Robber Barons came from Europe, and its part of the reason
a lot of ppl came here, along with religious reasons.

No one will face them down, even here in the US they get whatever
they want once they have the politicians in their pockets.

Most ppl just want to have a good life and be with their families
and do not want to end up like Lincoln or JFK.

That is why the politicians do what they are told because they
just want a life and to not end up dead.

Why do you think they are voting thru laws here without reading them ?

LOL

Because they are that bold now, and know the public do not have
the balls to do anything about it.

If the so called free world really believed in Democracy they would
have done something about Myanmar and the Sudan, but they
don't because we are a hybrid of Fascism, Kleptocracy, and Plutocracy.

We only intervene when it benefits us in some manner.





[edit on 23-8-2009 by Ex_MislTech]

reply to post by Solomons


You can have all the joint military between the EU &US you like,but in 10-20 yrs time whats going to happen when China &India stamp their feet?Im glad ill be too old to care, but i hope that whoever is calling the shots thinks about my kids and grandkids as well as the worlds.All these so called leaders should step in the ring and sort it among themselves.DO I HEAR HBO IN THE WINGS ALREADY?!!! Id pay to watch that one.. Lee ..Halifax UK........