Rare First Responder pics from Ground Zero

reply to post by rygi23


Any chance you can circle this arm you are seeing? I looked through it and am not catching your arm



-Sliadon

Seeing all that dust and debris makes me think of all the victims-to-be. Everyone around the Towers breathed poisonous dust in the air for a long time afterward. Who knows how many people will be affected physically in the coming years? Hmmm, maybe someone should start a new thread in the ObamaCare section?

Makes me so, so angry!

A friend and me drove to NYC in Nov 01 to check things out . Thanksgiving weekend.

The fire was still burning. There was still active smoke in the air, and it was very acrid.. very chemical.

The towers were about 5 stories of compressed death.

Surrounding buildings had big long vertical gashes in them

While one would think that a rag tag group of a religiously motived warriors from a culture based on 6th Century desert tribal living, working towards the destruction of the Western World and the reestablishment of the only true Islamic government, the Caliphate would be an exotic enough conspiracy theory for people, it guess something more mundane was the best that some could do .. so in that spirit

I think the Unions did it. They have the access they need. SEIU using the persuasion of power as their head honcho says.

Originally posted by Roadblockx
reply to post by Tom_Proctor

 

I've played some GTA and I feel pretty confident I can drive a tank, small prop plane, fuel tanker and a train. I played some COD4 and now feel pretty confident that I could shoot many different weapons very well even if I have been shot a few times.

Seriously?? IF the terrorists knew the very least about flying (although from what I have read, most if not all spoke crappy English), do you really think they would know where the auto-pilot button was or how to configure it? How would they even know how to read it? No way these suckers could fly them.

We can thank GPS and drones, IMO.

I tried to post a pic of a cockpit to show the complexity but couldn't figure out how to do it and I lost my patience. Sorry ATS'ers...

[edit on 17-8-2009 by Roadblockx]

This is not a PS3 or Xbox360 fun game. It's designed to replicate real life through simulation. It's physics are very well and the cockpits of most airliners are pretty well designed. Autopilot is pretty easy to put on, and anybody who can comprehend that "APT" means airport can type their airport into the autopilot, switch it on auto with GPS, and be flown there automatically.

All they had to do was press "APT", type in "KJFK", type in altitude to fly at, switch AP to Auto, and then switch nav to GPS. Then there's a few little buttons like "LOC".

Not to mention Xplane is FAA certified and you can get your licenses from flying a certain amount of time (after their USB key purchase of course, which is like $4000).

FSX is NOT FAA certified

[edit on 18-8-2009 by Tom_Proctor]

reply to post by Seventh

Did this picture win the `Spot the placed evidence competition?`. Landing gear down, the frame it was in ejected around a 1000 feet - without it dislodging with a punctured tyre (obviously), this really does come straight out of the - Passport, Bin Laden video, Bandana, Boxcutter knife, found bucket of we will try and make these evidences as blatantly obvious as (lookie it was these guys, they`ve left their complete details of everything) we possibly can awesomeness.

The usuual response by tin foil loons to anything they dont like....

Explain how something that big and heavy suddenly turns up on crowded
Manhattan street? Not like you simply drop it there - it would take a
crane to move

Come on - give us some rational explaination....

What about the aircraft seat in trunk of car - suppose the usual "its fake"
applies here too...

Originally posted by Roadblockx
I've played some GTA and I feel pretty confident I can drive a tank, small prop plane, fuel tanker and a train. I played some COD4 and now feel pretty confident that I could shoot many different weapons very well even if I have been shot a few times.

Sure you do, that's the idea of games, make you feel confident to keep on playing, a game in which you feel that it's too difficult for you it's a game that will not last long on your playlist.

How would they even know how to read it? No way these suckers could fly them.

How to read it? It's easy, I have learnt English by myself just by watching movies, and then I started reading it and now I can write it in a more or less correct way (British English, not the American version). I don't think that they would be sent to the US without even knowing how to read the language, that would be the most stupid thing to do.

It could work in a game, though.

I tried to post a pic of a cockpit to show the complexity but couldn't figure out how to do it and I lost my patience. Sorry ATS'ers...

But you can drive a tank, small prop plane, fuel tanker and a train, right?

PS: sorry everybody for the off-topic post.

I see this thread, like the other photos thread, is turning in a "who did it" thread, so I'm out of here.

That could also be an eye on the ninth post on page four, by TheLoony

sixth picture, on the floor, surrounded by bigger and bigger circles/ovals, any one know what the circles/ovals mean in symbolism?

[edit on 18-8-2009 by Pockets]

reply to post by TheLily


TheLily, your post grabbed my attention. It's hard to tell what's going on due to the quality of the images, but it does look like someone is holding a small child/ baby in their arms. I pray it's just a pixelation effect or something else more benign (as benign as these pictures can be).

Even now, 8 years later, I still can't help but be brought to tears when I see pictures like this or the people jumping. One can't imagine how awful it was inside that would make people think that jumping was a better option :-(

The pictures of the train station and tracks is oddly disturbing to me. Not for any conspiracy based reason but because I used to be there all the time -- from when I was old enough to go into my dads job with him in the city until a few weeks before 9/11.

It's creepier to see it empty and dark then just destroyed. I used to have to wade through people in order to get where I wanted to go and on more than one occasion listened to the most incredible violinst I have ever heard.

Ugh, emotional in a creeping, lingering memory kind of way.

Also, the picture TrueAmerican posted right under the 'Missing Parts' sign (pg. 3), is that a granny smith apple in the middle of the debris?

[edit on 8/18/0909 by spines]

Originally posted by CeltAngel
It's hard to tell what's going on due to the quality of the images, but it does look like someone is holding a small child/ baby in their arms.

I think it's "just" another person with only half of his (it looks like a man) body out of the window, using his left hand to hold on to the side of the window.

How many train lines and train stops were under the towers, old, new or abandoned?

Any one have a plan of under the towers, like a cutaway showing levels.
I just got a chill, something isn't sitting right with me at the moment. Not sure what it is...

reply to post by ArMaP


I'm sure it is something like that, but I still thank you for putting it into writing. Grainy pictures of people about to jump dozens of stories to their death always freak me out in unpredictable ways.

reply to post by 297GT


Confused by your question, and your "chills". Information is readily available. Photos in this OP obviously show modern Subway platforms, ticket kiosks, turnstiles, etc.

Here, a short interwebs search brought me to this site.

Peruse at your leisure.
____________________________________________
(tags)

[edit on 18 August 2009 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by thedman

The usuual response by tin foil loons to anything they dont like.... Explain how something that big and heavy suddenly turns up on crowded Manhattan street? Not like you simply drop it there - it would take a crane to move Come on - give us some rational explaination.... What about the aircraft seat in trunk of car - suppose the usual "its fake" applies here too...

So the under carriage was neatly tucked into the belly of the plane, in a micro second one wheel somehow managed to completely snap from the axle and shaft, embed itself into a section of the outer tower frame and managed to stay well and truly secured in place through an explosion that propelled parts of the tower a few hundred yards then went into a sharp descent for around 800 feet, and still managed to stay secure, the government love you guys they really do, the towers including a huge percent of everything inside them was vaporised, but, there`s always a vital piece of evidence that has side stepped the laws of science, laughed in the face of never being found, and had I eat common sense for breakfast.



Another wheel, who and why was it moved, and why did they puncture it, look at the left picture and with a little bit of deduction you can plainly see that if the tyre was damaged in the left picture to reflect what you can see in the right, there would be a split right through the treads etc, and you do have a 360 degree perspective in the left picture, the damage goes completely through the tyre, yet it has no such damage in picture 1.

An aircraft seat smashed through a car windscreen is exactly that, maybe it was the seat the passport was on for it`s free ticket to escape death. In the nutshell the governments evidence for any parts of 9/11 is beyond weak at best....

It was Bin Laden, no it was not according to the F.B.I`s most wanted site, we have the hijackers that were dead/alive/not them, $5 billion dollars lies in wait at the stock exchange via put options, nearly 8 years now, and let`s face it, times have been bad, even Gates and the like have felt the pinch, how much in lost interest? (or does it accumulate interest I would doubt this though as it`s a set amount, so jury is out on this one).

503 first responders ignored for the omission inquiry, no pyrotechnic forensic or detailed explosive residue tests done, now be honest here - if there was nobody disagreeing with the OS would not everyone be screaming `WTF why didn`t you check for explosives, hell they got a bomb in there 8 years ago, there`s still as yet no official reason as to the collapse, and there are huge pointers towards a CD`.

The omission and WTC7 if you cannot explain it do not mention it, like molten steel, Bush and the observed 1st plane hit on T.V. fiasco a day before any video release, hand in hand with the B.B.C. and their awesome clairvoyant ability. After all the people were rescued that could be rescued from both towers, why were helicopter and roof top rescues not brought into force, one tower (i`m sure it was WTC1 the North Tower) was accessible and there were trained pilots with the appropriate kit, confident, willing and able to do them, think very carefully here with your reply, as not agreeing on a one option only equation in this case clearly means you voted for a death sentence to the poor guys trapped inside, crews were there with equipment, one tower at least was deemed good to go, the helicopter pilots will vouch to this, i`ll let you ponder what signed - those who saw it all - death warrants.

My bad sorry, went right off on one then, could have stated so much more evidence, and you guys do not really have that much do you?, not 100% in your face type stuff, in fact, nothing, okay there`s witnesses that stuff happened, like planes hitting buildings and they collapsed, but when you look it`s almost spooky, but, when you have to yield not to the forces of nature, logic, truth, it`s easy .

These images are not rare and obviously not from a First Responder.

They are also not secret in any way.

Go take a look here or do a basic web search....


www.columbia.edu...

reply to post by 297GT


There were several subway lines which either ran under WTC complex
or nearby

Many were damaged by collapse of WTC towers

NEW YORK CITY -- New York City Transit officials have determined that damage to the No. 1 and 9 subway tunnels and stations in Lower Manhattan is so extensive that the line will need to be completely rebuilt for more than a mile.

About 575 feet of the line is totally collapsed, in two separate locations, but subway engineers who have explored the tunnels say that hundreds more feet are structurally unsound, with thick I-beams bent like paper clips and ceilings sagging under the weight of millions of tons of debris from the World Trade Center on the street above.

In several places, individual beams from the trade center weighing tons punched through the street, through about seven feet of earth and through the concrete-and-brick tunnel ceiling, and then kept on going into the tunnel floor, where they remain lodged like spears.

Pictures posted look they are of the No 1 & 9 lines under the WTC

Besides the damage to the 1 and 9 line, a corridor and equipment room near a wall of the Cortlandt Street station on the N and R line was punctured by a large section of the facade from 2 World Trade Center.

And there is the C and E station at the World Trade Center, which was only slightly damaged and could reopen as soon as streets above it are repaired and reopened.

Officials say the "E" line station itself — which lies on the northeastern corner of the Ground Zero disaster zone — was not damaged by the collapse of the twin towers after terrorists rammed hijacked planes into them on the morning of Sept. 11.

However, there was a tremendous amount of dust and debris in, around and above the station.

"Initially, it looked like a snowstorm came into this station," said Larry Reuter, head of New York City Transit. Reuter said white debris and ash covered everything, making it look almost as though a volcano erupted nearby.

But, he said, there was no structural damage to the station. Mostly, it needed a good cleaning and some repairs to its electrical equipment.

In addition to NYC Subway system running under WTC there was the
PATH (Port Authority Trans Hudson) commuter line which ran from NJ to NYC

The doors with sign "TRAINS TO NEW JERSEY" ae the connecting tunnels
to the the PATH station

The PATH station was connected to the World Trade Center towers, via an underground concourse and shopping center. There were also underground connections to the A/C/E New York Subway lines and to the N and R lines. Prior to September 11, the mall had been leased to The Westfield Group, which intended to rename the mall Westfield Shoppingtown World Trade Center, and embark on a major expansion and renovation program. Plans called for the addition of 200,000 square feet (19,000 m2) of new mall space and a few well-known sit-down restaurants. By 2001, the volume of passengers using the WTC PATH station was approximately 25,000 daily.[14]

Soon after Flight 11 (first plane) hit the North Tower on 9/11, the PATH station was shut down by order from PATH's deputy director, Victoria Cross Kelly, and Richie Moran who commanded the PATH system at the Journal Square Transportation Center. A train from Newark that came into the terminal at 8:55 a.m. stopped only to pick up passengers. A second train, from Hoboken, came through at 9:00 a.m. but did not stop and returned to New Jersey. PATH sent an empty train to the station at 9:10 a.m. to pick up a dozen PATH employees, as well as a homeless individual, leaving the PATH station empty.[15]

Someone asked about depths of the subway lines under the WTC

Here is list of the depths of the subway

Some relative depths of stations in the World Trade Center complex are as follows, +/- 10 feet.

A/C Chambers St. Platform, 20 feet below street
E World Trade Center Platform, 20 feet
Park Place IRT Platform, 60 feet
BMT Cortlandt St. Station, 20 feet
IRT Cortlandt St. Station, 40 feet
Path Fare Control, 60 feet
Path Platforms, 80 feet

reply to post by Seventh


Usual "truther" angry incohert response to question...

I asked how the aircraft parts got where they were

So did someone teleport them there?

Consider that each part weighs at least several hundred (landing gear part) to several thousand pounds (exterior panel) - How did they get there?

Not like on crowded Manhattan street can simply drop them without someone noticing

Or in your paranoid mind they are in on it....

reply to post by weedwhacker


Sure, BushCo should HANG for incompetence as well as conspiracy.

But don't take the nonsense about "mini nukes" to destroy the mountain of evidence of an inside job.

The hijackers, most of them, got their passports in Saudi Arabia from a CIA-run embassy WHEN THEY WERE ALREADY ON A WATCH LIST. Not the million-man version of today, that makes it impossible to tell Cat Scratch Stevens from the blind sheik --- but an actual list of trouble makers.

Countries were warning us not just of the impending doom -- but according to whistle blowers, they were saying "Do you really want to do this to yourselves?"

Then we still have the physics involved of dropping the WTC in 8 seconds when it was designed to withstand 3 simultaneous airplane hits. It was also designed with fires in mind since two weeks before it opened, a fire raged over 2 floors on the north tower. Asbestos and sprinklers were added after the fact. You don't add the heat protection to protect the steel beam structure -- you add it to keep heat from spreading and starting fires.

I don't need EVIDENCE to see the impossibility of both a pancake collapse that overcomes the support structures -- AND brings down the central core of the building at the same time. Why wasn't the core still intact? You can't make the building more heavy by collapsing it -- the supports still would hold the weight unless charges were set and beams were cut. Steel does not "snap."

Anyway, that's all been done to death.

I know that BushCo was incompetent and covered up a lot, but Dick Cheney didn't plan 3 or 4 drills running airplanes into buildings because he gave a crap about security -- it was his ONLY effort at ANY counter-terrorism. He met exactly ZERO times before 9/11 on the issue and once after. What a huge, stinking coincidence. Like everything else involved that made Silverstein a billionaire and destroyed evidence in WTC 7 against the Bush families Treasury fraud and ENRON.

If we never had 9/11, we would never have been able to invade Afghanistan (gas pipeline to India) and Iraq (gas wells for BP). If we hadn't had a 9/11, then ALL he schemes of the NeoCons and PNAC would not have been able to come into play.

The Patriot Act was written BEFORE 9.11 as well as invasion plans for Iraq.

Enough said.

reply to post by ommadawn


Well, I'll be.....

I had never seen most of these pics online before.

Go figure.