84-year old Woman Smashed Into the Ground By Cops

Originally posted by billybobh3

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

Originally posted by billybobh3
All of you people are far too soft.

She was a problem, the situation was handled. YOU do a better job in the same circumstance with adrenaline coursing through your system.

EVERYONE is a critic, yet NOT ONE of the critics have been have faced with a similar circumstance.

Just wait until the SHTF, you will ALL be singing a different tune. I've been there, and don't give me your song-and-dance about how you 'would do things differently'; you'll eventually live-or-die by your instincts. MY instincts have kept me alive thus far, and will do so far beyond your weak minded states.

If you can't control your adrenaline when dealing with an 84 year old woman, than maybe you shouldn't be in a position where you are constantly working with the general public.

I was a former bar bouncer/martial artist/boxer/kickboxer/cage fighter. I've helped train the military and select members of law enforcement. We teach people how to stay CALM in drastic situations so that mistakes are not made. THIS CLEARLY WAS A MISTAKE AND A HORRIBLE ONE AT THAT. Your defense of the officer is deplorable in this situation and if you could not find a better way out, then I am truly glad that you are not protecting our citizens.

Although I'm "very proud" of your past accomplishments, YOU weren't in the position to handle this situation. Training is one thing, real-life life-or-death experience is another.

[edit on 8/13/2009 by billybobh3]

My friend, I've been in more life and death struggles than most of that police force combined. (I've been stabbed, shot, and hit with baseball bats by multiple opponents. I could go on and on, but, Give me a break.) Some of us do it for real, and let me tell you...an 84 year old woman with Alzheimer's holding a kitchen knife does not constitute a life and death struggle for me. Maybe an 84 year old woman is a threat in your book, but in the real world, its not even a thought for me.

Sorry to sound condescending, but, you're REALLY reaching when you try to equate the actions of an old feeble woman to a real life and death struggle.

Secondly, I know MANY cops that found this particular video despicable. Like I said before, I've trained quite a few officers and used to help train the military for 2 years under my old instructor's contract.

Originally posted by billybobh3
All of you people are far too soft.

She was a problem, the situation was handled. YOU do a better job in the same circumstance with adrenaline coursing through your system.

EVERYONE is a critic, yet NOT ONE of the critics have been have faced with a similar circumstance.

Just wait until the SHTF, you will ALL be singing a different tune. I've been there, and don't give me your song-and-dance about how you 'would do things differently'; you'll eventually live-or-die by your instincts. MY instincts have kept me alive thus far, and will do so far beyond your weak minded states.

I am a critic of this.

I have done a better job in the same circumstance, and worse.

I have faced similar circumstances and worse.

I would and DID do things differently.

You defenders say this was the only way. Hardly.

Then it was asked what if this was your grandma? You cry about appealing to the emotions.

You know how I worked? The golden rule. How would I want to be treated? How would I treat a loved one in the same situation?

This one was wrong. Period.

[edit on 8/13/2009 by Lemon.Fresh]

Here's my two copper Lincoln's on this. Ok, I do agree that she could have been disarmed better, but no reason to focus on could of's and should of's. What happened happened. A complaint was called on this woman, which is why the police where there to disarm her. I have worked with the elderly in nursing homes for a long time and I can tell you that even though she is an 84 year old woman with Alzheimers, she could still pose a threat with a knife. She isn't at the right state of mind anyway, and she isn't aware of the situation. I don't know how far into she is, so I can say if she is completely gone from the present, or if she is just here and there. At the nursing home, if someone, has Alzheimers or is "crazy" then you would be surprised how violent they can become.

Everyone just see's a grandmotherly figure in t his video, but don't let that cloud your judgement before finding out the facts. She may seem like a frail old woman to you, but look at the grip she had on that knife. She got taken down hard and she still had it in her hands and it took a little while to get it from her hands. My point for bringing this up is that when the officer got close to her, it's hard to tell in the video, but that woman could have easily stabbed her. It is bouncy at that part but that is probably what happened. No it wasn't a steak knife, it was a butter knife, but perhaps the officer didn't see that because the situation happened quickly. Also, the take down I don't think was meant to be that way. She went down just that easily because she has to use a cane to support herself. The officer I don't think went after her full charge, but even being gentle would have sent this woman down.

From these videos I have learned to not jump to conclusions because we don't see the whole picture in these things most of the time and this was one of them. Plus, with my experience with the elderly at nursing homes, I do know that more could have been at play here. It was a bad situation for everyone involved and contrary to popular belief around here but cops don't like to beat up on old ladies just for kicks. It is unlikely that this officer woke up in a bad mood with the intention of smashing an 84 year old woman to the ground.

Originally posted by skyeyes
Perfect arm bar takedown, taught in law enforcement academies all over the country. The "Brandishing" as it's called doesn't matter how she was holding the knife. Other people in the parking lot saw the knife, which made them concerned for their and other's safety. Not all cops are martial artist's, most cops are only taught the basics of disarming someone. The people in the parking lot got upset because their not knowledgeable about law enforcment tactic's. I have come into contact with plenty of elderly people who exhibit uncanny strength. Most have psycological problems. It's either take her down, because the officer's safety is paramount, or tase her. But considering all the bad publicity with the taser laetly, I'm not surprised it was not used. Yhea, the elderly female may have been injured, but she's still alive. Unarmed cop versus an amred suspect, you do the math. For all acounts this could have ended a lot worse. GOOD JOB COPS!

First and foremost. That is not an arm bar take down. That was a wrist lock turned into a hip toss. If you're going to act like you know what you're talking about, at least learn the lingo.

As far as safety goes...if you can't avoid an 84 year old woman, than you might as well be six feet under.

reply to post by eNumbra


Or you sneak up behind her and bear hug her........

I've worked in an old peoples homes and experienced the crazies and the sundowners.. Of the many off the wall scenes I watched played out I never once saw the need for an old lady to be thrown around (and I have seen an old lady with a knife take another old lady hostage in her room before..)

One of these days a cop is going to do something like this in front of the wrong crowd, and end up finding themselves in a less than desired situation ..

I have talked down a lady (around 32 years old) who had six personalities, was off her meds for a few months and was swinging a machete at anyone who came close to her. I got her into the ambulance and strapped in nice and snug, without touching her.

I have disarmed an old lady of a cleaver without breaking bones or throwing her to the ground. She was hallucinating.

I am a skinny guy at 6'1" and 160 lbs. My biggest muscle is . . . nevermind

If I can do it, there is no reason why these cops can't do it.

[edit on 8/13/2009 by Lemon.Fresh]

This is disgusting. I am shocked at the apologists out there who are defending this move. Innr city teachers get threatened all the time that way by phsically superior kids and they don't slam them like that nordo they have agun, taser or pepper spray. This thread is getting pretty polarized so I wanted to drop in this related video as a comic relief. This is my 1st vdeo imbed so pleasebe patient......





Edit: Clarify meanng.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by GTORick]

reply to post by MegaCurious


Damn! The Policewoman took the old lady over.... that was funked up!! What's an old lady gonna do with the knife? She probably couldn't even thrust forward with it.......

Having said that though i think some of these video footages are set up....

reply to post by Laurauk



The police officer was trying to get the knife off her hand, she just was holding the knife stronger than she had strength standing up, so she fell down.

Even a black lady in the video says the old woman was brandishing the knife at people, and the police officer kept asking her to put down the knife but she didn't.

What did you think was going to happen? If she had been tasered she could be dead, the officer decided not to taser her because of her age probably and thought a twist of her wrist would release the knife but the woman fell down.

Yes she is 80 something years old, but still a 80 something year old brandishing a knife and swinging at people like the other black woman said is DANGEROUS, some could get cut or worse.

The police officer tried to wrestle the knife off her hand, she just kept holding the knife, even when she went down she was still holding the knife.

I know it sucks that this 80 year old woman fell down, but do tell me what else they could have done?

They had to get the knife one way or another.




[edit on 13-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by Laurauk



Listen to the video, another black woman says to the black guy taping the video that the old woman was brandishing the knife at people.

One of those people probably called the police and let them know what the old woman was doing.

reply to post by Laurauk


If my mother had a mental illness i wouldn't be leaving her alone and much less with access to a knife...

One uncle of mine has alzheimer, my aunt has to be constantly with him trying to subdue him. Sometimes he knows what is going on, and sometimes he doesn't, but on one occassion that he lost his mind he punched my aunt and knocked out some teeth from her mouth.

My uncle had never done this to my aunt. But alzheimer's does things to people, and they can become dangerous to others, and to themselves.

Sometimes my uncle still wants to take his truck and drive out. He is 78 years old.

The thing is they live in Florida, and I live in Wyoming, my parents also live far from them but in Florida.



[edit on 13-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


There are other ways to handle the situation..... from the footage it looks like the police officer didnt even give enough time for the old lady to put the knife down...... it's like 5 seconds after the officer gets out of the car....

Woahhh, nana's goin wild!!

Just because she's 84 doesnt mean she wasnt dangerous. My grandma's 82 and I dont think Id be able to take her on! What were they supposed to do, just chuckle and say 'oh look at the cute little old lady with the knife.. lets leave her be, she cant be any danger seeing as she's old'?
The police maybe should look at their policies regarding forcefully arresting/taking weapons off elderly people, but they were obviously taught how to deal with this situation in a certain way, so at the end of the day they were just doing their job.

[edit on 063131p://f48Thursday by Bluebelle]

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


The woman kept walking with the knife in hand and in the general direction of the police officer, you think the police officer will stand right in front of a woman who was showing mental illness and who has a knife in her hand?

Please stop saying "there are other ways they could have taken the knife" and just tell us these other ways....

It is obvious the police officer grabbed her hand, and part of the arm and made a twisting motion, the woman just fell down, but any other person, or if this woman had stronger legs she wouldn't have fallen down.

It is not like the police officer threw the old woman over her shoulder... she tried to twist the arm/wrist to wrestle the knife off her hand.



[edit on 13-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

I wasn't there so I can't monday morning quarterback this one BUT... IF I would have had to respond to a call of someone with a knife I would have had my gun drawn , since this was an old lady I would have OC'd her (She could have had some sort of asthmatic reaction to it which = BAD) or used an ASP on her wrist (Which could have broken her wrist which = BAD). I wouldn't have grabbed her because distance is your friend and nobody wants to get cut. I'm not defending the Officer , but All she saw was a woman with a knife and she's probably running through all sorts of solutions in her head to this problem , and when you're the one that's there with a crowd of people around , things happen fast. My opinion is that she was hopped up on adrenaline and planned on taking the old lady down but miscalculated how much force was needed and used too much , It seems the trend lately is to Taser 1st and ask questions later. If she had tasered her everyone would be complaining about another old lady getting tased. It's a lose lose situation.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

 

It is obvious the police officer grabbed her hand, and part of the arm and made a twisting motion, the woman just fell down, but any other person, or if this woman had stronger legs she wouldn't have fallen down.

It is not like the police officer threw the old woman over her shoulder... she tried to twist the arm/wrist to wrestle the knife off or her hand.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

People don't just fall down , your joints in your body act like fulcrums and a small amount of torque can send you head over heels. When someone is given a hip pocket course at the academy about redirection of force but isn't taught the mechanics of it , this is what happens.

reply to post by MegaCurious


I can tell you this, if the cops here start taking on this style of bull, I will end up in jail. Jesus bloody christ that makes me so damn angry.. I don't give a crap what she was doing, she was incapable of hurting anyone and is a frail old lady.

My god..... And we have a tendency to follow the US. I swear that better never be seen by my eyes here..

Thinking about it, there isnt actually any way that they could have successfully retrieved the knife from her without it being seen as harsh. Unless they decided to try slapping it out of her hand, or distracting her with a ball of wool and some knitting needles

Although I would have preferred it if someone rugby tackled her, now THAT would have been worth watching!

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by Ignorance Denied

 

Does it show in the video, that she was running about, trying tostabb someone?

No it did not. Dont make assumptions until it actually shows she was doing what you are suggesting in your post!

Now now, you know the strawman alwaysa wins the argument - thats what he's for..

Bah to those loonies saying she is some sort of terminator granny.

Weak people will say this is a good outcome. A real human being would have disarmed her without violence. But those days are long gone.

As if she even needed to be disarmed, to be honest. "Drive that knife thru your heart..." Baahahah pathetic...

she looked like shed have problems cutting toast.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

 

. . .

Please stop saying "there are other ways they could have taken the knife" and just tell us these other ways....
. . .


[edit on 13-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Read my previous post.

There are ways to talk to people. It is called verbal Judo. You can even talk down mentally ill people.

I have done it many times.

It is wrong to yell put down the knife a couple of times then slam someone to the ground, I do not care how old they are.

If the person comes RUNNING at you, have at it. Otherwise, talk em down.

This officer acted just like these officers.

It is sad, pathetic, and wrong.