84-year old Woman Smashed Into the Ground By Cops

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by eNumbra

 

Would you be saying this if this was your mother or grandmother they slammed to the ground?

No you would not. You would be angry and upset.

Don't appeal to emotion, answer my question. You pose the hypothetical that they could have retrieved the knife from her without force; how would that have gone down?

Two policeofficers, on cue, could have seized her from sides, front or back, and one could easily have forced the knife from her hand. It's done in mental health hospitals all the time.

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by Ignorance Denied

 

Does it show in the video, that she was running about, trying tostabb someone?

No it did not. Dont make assumptions until it actually shows she was doing what you are suggesting in your post!

You are making the same assumption that she is an innocent old lady because the video doesn't show anything before the confrontation.

Originally posted by aero56


Sorry, but a properly trained police officer would know how to diffuse this situation with out violence. As a former psych nurse, I was trained in such situations. I could have had that knife from her in a heartbeat, no violence.

Do you know if the police are trained with the same exact techniques? I'm tried of hearing people say they could do this better. I'm sure you could. Read the rest of the thread, I admited there are better ways of getting the knife.

reply to post by Bombeni
I'm pretty sure that was right where I live in Detroit, the sad thing about that one was the guy was deft, and said what I can't hear you as he moved closer to the cop Bam,Bam,Bam, but then again the cop could see clearly the rake was cocked and loaded.

Originally posted by oneclickaway
reply
to post by KNFr76

 

She has ALZHEIMER'S and has a STEAK KNIFE in her hand! Maybe if she started slicing and stabbing people you would have a different mindset.

Maybe we would...but she DIDN'T start slicing and stabbing people. So rather than drifting into some world of fantasy probably best to talk about the facts as we know them and as are evidenced on that video.

Well we don't see what she was doing before the police arrived(not saying she was slicing at people or anything). People felt threatened enough to call the cops. They wanted the situation handled and felt they couldn't handle it them selves. She was ordered to put the weapon down. The old lady didn't comply and was taken down accordingly.

On an other note how was the cop supposed to know if she had a mental illness or was just going on a rampage( not saying she was going on a rampage!). The police officer didn't. Put your feet into the officers shoes.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by KNFr76]

[edit on 13-8-2009 by KNFr76]

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha

I don't care if she was holding a rake and walking around, she was not intent on hurting people.

As far as you know. With the fact you now know.

Put yourself in the shoes of the officer at the time of the situation. The story goes that she approached a family while holding the knife and the family was concerned enough to call 911.

If you can't accept that nobody was "preying" on the old woman here then you are beyond help.

Old woman in walmart parking lot holding a knife.

Hundreds of everyday people walking past her, NOT helping her, NOT disarming her, NOT talking to her, NOT doing a DAMN thing....

People call the police because apparently no one else wants to do anything about this old lady, no one else wants to JUMP IN there like you brave, billy bad ass ATS members...instead they FILM her standing there with a knife.

Soooooo cops arrive, put her in a wrist lock, to the ground she goes, knife is removed from her and situation defused. Old lady got a scrape on the head and was treated for it.

So whats the real problem here........PEOPLE. You all wanna bitch that she should of been treated differently, shoulda been pampered, should, shoulda, shoulda....no one in that parking lot raised an FN finger to help that poor old woman....so STFU about her being disarmed by the ones who were called by the PEOPLE who did NOTHING!!!! idiots....

To bad all you bruce lee ATS members weren't there...wouldn't need the cops..lol.

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha

Wether or not you agree with it, you do not find it offensive in the extreme, scares me. Because I know that mindset is not yours alone. At least you state it openly.

Because I have an understanding of Law Enforcement tactics and the mindset of officers on scene and despise seeing people call for someone's blood without knowing all the fact. Some people who claim they would have beaten the officer if they were on scene.

not sure if you see the irony in your claim there....

People are on your back for your stance here, you cry foul then justify it by claiming that you have an "understanding of Law Enforcement tactics and the mindset of officers".. Obviously you do. And you wont take any criticism of them in any form.

yeah, f'n terrifying.

No, just pathetic. Sickening. Disgusting, but not terrifying. They still have what we call OUR BEST INTEREST in their agenda.

It's called reality. I don't live in the hyper-violent world of those who have condoned this, nor do I live in your rose-petal covered world of hand-holding and not living next to people who disagree with you.

Lmao, mate where I live everything is brown, not rose.. From all the # the so called law inflicts on us like frogs in a pot.

I didn't want to actually stoop down and explain what I believe should happen; why should I with all the assumptions flying around, would anyone even believe it?

The woman needs to be suspended, at least two weeks for retraining in threat assessment and abaitment. With that, the entire curriculum of threat assessment needs to be looked at.

[edit on 8/13/2009 by eNumbra]

Why on earth is that "Stooping down" when it's bloody common sense? It's what seperates a sadist from a caring human being.

What made you think you would be any less to have said that in the first place??



I will take my opinions towards the topic from this point, I didn't mean to seem to attack you mate. I know we all have our opinions, you know mine, and I know yours. There is nothing more to express against ourselves.

You may, as you wish, call me out, but I don't really want to distract the topic further.

Anyway, *shakes hand*.

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by aero56



Do you know if the police are trained with the same exact techniques? I'm tried of hearing people say they could do this better. I'm sure you could. Read the rest of the thread, I admited there are better ways of getting the knife.

I am also trained to disarm people with wepons and have on many occasions.
In this case would be to simply walk up to woman grab knife hand and remove knife, the problem being the woman had walker in the other hand so this changes everything, there were only two choices take her down hard, or just shoot her on the spot, the officers gave the old apparent Gang Banger a break.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by googolplex]

Originally posted by rcwj75
Old woman in walmart parking lot holding a knife.

Hundreds of everyday people walking past her, NOT helping her, NOT disarming her, NOT talking to her, NOT doing a DAMN thing....

People call the police because apparently no one else wants to do anything about this old lady, no one else wants to JUMP IN there like you brave, billy bad ass ATS members...instead they FILM her standing there with a knife.

Soooooo cops arrive, put her in a wrist lock, to the ground she goes, knife is removed from her and situation defused. Old lady got a scrape on the head and was treated for it.

So whats the real problem here........PEOPLE. You all wanna bitch that she should of been treated differently, shoulda been pampered, should, shoulda, shoulda....no one in that parking lot raised an FN finger to help that poor old woman....so STFU about her being disarmed by the ones who were called by the PEOPLE who did NOTHING!!!! idiots....

To bad all you bruce lee ATS members weren't there...wouldn't need the cops..lol.

Moral of the story.. Don't call the cops unless you want to see Grandma's head caved in by the gorillas.

Ok, simple enough.

I'm sure more and more people will begin to take matters into their own hands in the future as they learn the dangers of getting the gorillas involved.

Thanks for the lecture though.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by 3DPrisoner]

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha
People are on your back for your stance here, you cry foul then justify it by claiming that you have an "understanding of Law Enforcement tactics and the mindset of officers".. Obviously you do. And you wont take any criticism of them in any form.

Actually I've agreed on cases of police brutality on this forum before. So before you go thinking I'm crying foul, maybe you should go back and read the post you quoted that I quoted. I'm explaining why it's not "offensive in the extreme".

No, just pathetic. Sickening. Disgusting, but not terrifying. They still have what we call OUR BEST INTEREST in their agenda.

Yeah. All police have an agenda. They get marching orders every morning at 0600.

why on earth is that "Stooping down" when it's bloody common sense? It's what seperates a sadist from a caring human being.

What made you think you would be any less to have said that in the first place??

1: It's not my place.
2: This thread is supposed to be about what's happening on the video; what we think doesn't really matter regardless. (especially if this is all on the AGENDA)

I didn't mean to seem to attack you mate. I know we all have our opinions,

sure you didn't

You have no compassion. No guts and no morals.

practice makes perfect i suppose.

Originally posted by googolplex
I am also trained to disarm people with wepons and have on many occasions.
In this case would be to simply walk up to woman grab knife hand and remove knife, the problem being the woman had walker in the other hand so this changes everything, there were only two choices take her down hard, or just shoot her on the spot, the officers gave the old apparent Gang Banger a break.

Kudos to you, I would hope, that in the same situation your first decision doesn't get one of your wrists slashed.

reply to post by eNumbra



Haha Knew it. You can keep it however, I gave it to you.

Perhaps I was right all along.. ;P

I really think there is something wrong with people who are not moved by the sight of an old woman being knocked to the ground and getting her skull cracked open. Either it is the young speaking in their ignorance who have little experience of life and are in selfish insular 'me, me, me' mode still...or it is people who are so desensitised to violence, who see the answer to every problem as only able to be solved with physical violence...probably too much television and too many video games. Or they simply have no normal compassion. Why they have no compassion or feeling is scary to me.

Originally posted by rcwj75
Old woman in walmart parking lot holding a knife.

Hundreds of everyday people walking past her, NOT helping her, NOT disarming her, NOT talking to her, NOT doing a DAMN thing....

All of them?? In dire danger for their lives?? Oh My!

Call the police!! We need a beat down!!

Better be heavy handed, or else we'll have nothing to complain about later too..

reply to post by oneclickaway


No what is wrong is people are over thinking this and coming to quick judgements without assessing the entire situation without bias. That includes you. You want to know what would have been excessive? If they had tasered her to death. Want another example? They could have beaten her while she was on the ground. Did these things happen? No they did not. I mentioned this in my post and others have mentioned it too, even though she is an 84 year old woman, she is still dangerous with a knife. Especially with alzhimers. I have been around people like this, they are a danger not only to others, but themselves. Whoever looks after her should have been more responsible because you can't let a person like this run around alone. Again, look at the video, when she was knocked over, she had a an death grip on that knife even with her head smashed and she was trying to fight off the officer. People need to think things through before talking/typing.

OK I have read thru most of this thread, and I agree on the surface it looks like overkill.

What choices do Officers have

A. Mace (pepper spray)
[contraindication for asthma]
B. Baton/Nightstick/flashlight
[frail bones as already pointed out]
C. Tazer (Yeah! right)
[regardless, one point for being at least smart enough to NOT use it]
D. Physical take down
[least offensive]

as was also stated, this is a NO WIN Situation

Myself, (I'm no cop) would have been a short burst of pepper spray upwind of her.

I work with these type of people daily, they are sometimes cantankerous and get more so during an "episode"; The police are not trained in compassion, nor should they be. Like another poster said if you don't want a brutal response, don't call the police

Originally posted by thedigirati

Must be my rose-tinted glasses but being a human being, this is how I anticipate Id have handedl the situation;

ME: Hello, can I ask what are you doing?

OL: I dont know, I donw know where I am

ME: Ok, you're at the parking lot here in walmart.

OL: Where?

ME: Walmart. Is anyone with you?

OL: I cant remember..

ME: Ok, Can you put the knife down sweetheart?

OL: Knife? what knife?

ME: The one in your hand love.

OL: Ohh This? Ok.

ME: Thats great, now lets get you home...

meh

What happened during this situation happened. It's history, it's done, nothing can change it now. There is no point in saying what could have and what should have been done. Everyone saying that they could have handled this differently are doing the classical arm chair critic routine. Not one of you, including myself, know what to do in this same situation. Everyone is ignoring the most important thing, why was this woman by herself anyway? She should either have been at the nursing home but maybe the staff weren't paying attention when she walked out. Or maybe the relatives of hers lost track of her.

The officer resolved the situation the best way her first instinct told her. What is done is done. Excessive force would have been much more violent than this. She wasn't beaten while she was done, she wasn't tasered, she wasn't kicked in the head, she wasn't manhandled, she was knocked to the ground which was very easy to do that to a woman in a cane. And I will repeat again, the knife was still being gripped hard after she had hit the concrete and it took the officer a while to get it from her.

reply to post by Ha`la`tha


Here is a nice article, with citations about the effects of Alzheimer's.

I'm not sure even the most silver-tongued person could cut through: (depending upon how advanced her case is.)

Common neuropsychiatric manifestations are wandering, sundowning,[42] irritability and labile affect, leading to crying, outbursts of unpremeditated aggression, or resistance to caregiving.

[edit on 8/13/2009 by eNumbra]

How embarrassing to know these people are on the force "to serve and protect".
That stupid female cop couldn't even try and disarm her by talking to her and doing a little "juke" to get out of the way as the old woman was trying to "slash and kill" all those in the parking lot?
Those cops should have been surrounded and beaten and then tarred an feathered. What a bunch of wusses...Did ya see how scared that "macho man" cop was with the sunglasses?
They are the last ones you will see doing that now this has gone viral.
America is waking up and will not put up with things like this much longer. The next video of that scenario will be very violent.
I would love to go to that cops house and slam her elderly mother to the ground for coming at me with "pruning shears" as she was cutting her roses in the back yard.....Let's see how she would feel.
It is downright embarrassing that we give these people guns and tasers and cuffs.....What a bunch of dolts.....
If that had been a 17 year old chick on crack I can see the justification ...But an elderly woman in the parking lot???????
Hope you sleep well at night officer/agent Kunt...Teach your kids well...Tell them to be real good in school cause mommy is out there taking care of all the "bad people"..........

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!