84-year old Woman Smashed Into the Ground By Cops

reply to post by jd140

I am not nor have any interest in "dancing around" that aspect of the situation, whatsoever.

My sole point being that the officer in question seemed to have acted in a disproportionate manner, especially with regards the seeming and/or supposed threat posed ... as there "appeared" to be None.

A mere steak knife held at the side of an elderly individual, not brandishing it in Any manner which could be construed as "threatening", yet the officer "apparently" approached the situation as if it were a Much more dire circumstance.

Had she been more aggressively confronting or "threatening", I would have no issue whatsoever with the action(s) taken.

The fact of the matter is She Wasn't. The officer on the scene did Not seem to properly Assess the situation prior to acting. There was No immediate danger or threat to either the LEOs nor those within the immediate vicinity ... as demonstrated by the video itself.

AGAIN,
I usually side with an officer's on-the-spot "decision" in cases such as this.... as they typically have no idea what they're "getting into", but in this particular circumstance it would seem quite clear that it could have Very well been handled in a more appropriate, professional and proportionate manner.

Observe. Assess. Respond ... proportionate to the situation and/or circumsatnace

THAT did not seem to be the case here.

$.02

jd,
I've watched the video numerous times and it simply does not show the entirety of her "being taken down", though it would seem quite clear that she didn't suffer said injuries by a mere wrist-lock or "trip up" on her own.

disproportionate response, for me ... and I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

reply to post by 12m8keall2c



Atleast we can agree on two things.

1. There wasn't a slam or one that you can point out.

2. The video doesn't show the entirety of what happened before the incident occured.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
What an incredibly ridiculous argument you have going on here.

One side is making the patently ridiculous argument that a person with a knife is not dangerous because she is old. The other side is making an equally ridiculous argument that the Officer could not have disarmed her in a more humane manner.

Gotta love ATS

I am really trying to find a good reason for this cop to have an 84 year old alzheimer patient on the cement with blood flowing. I'm trying my hardest to rationalize it, then I keep getting these mental pictures of the months and months of training that cop had, learning how to restrain young, strong, drug-fueled males with nothing but her bare hands in case she had been disarmed. And I just can't make it work. I don't have that much imagination.

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by ninecrimes

Originally posted by eNumbra
Neither do I quite frankly; honestly I think I may never fit in here if I don't join the All Cops Are Nazi Pig Scum Club.
[edit on 8/13/2009 by eNumbra]

That's right, because we defy ignorance.

Sure; why don't you give us a call the next time you "kick a police officer's skull in" in the name of justice.

If I ever saw anyone treating an old woman like that, I would kick their skull in. Cop or no cop, knife or no knife, there is no reason to treat a woman with a walker-cane like that.

By saying "next time you...", you've only written yourself off in my book as an ignorant forum troll, most likely in mom's basement, trying to tango with the big boys.

I never said I have done any such thing in the past, so I'm not quite sure why you would stoop to that level.

And to reiterate: yes, if I ever saw ANYONE tackle an old lady (with the exception of another old lady), I would most likely kick their teeth out through their ears, then feed them back through their nasal passages. And not just once, either- I'd probably stand there stomping their gray matter into a fine pulp.

How does that sound? That's how a real man would protect the elderly. Though it doesn't sound like you know anything about that (being a real man), seeing as you're defending a cop who made an old woman bleed from the head.

Yet, oddly enough, the only fight I've ever been in was when someone stole something from me and got caught red-handed.

This is what the terrorist pigs turn normally hard-working, tax-paying, peaceful citizens into.

Originally posted by jd140
Atleast we can agree on two things.

not quite

1. There wasn't a slam or one that you can point out.

slam or no slam. we have an elderly woman who posed no threat to those around her, whatsoever, as demonstrateed by those individuals walking passed nonchalantly in the video, officers included, on the ground, bleeding from her head. you do the math.

2. The video doesn't show the entirety of what happened before the incident occured.

based upon the content of the video itself, what more need be shown?

she was meandering around the parking lot as if she didn't know where she was nor where she was going. what threat did she Truly pose? ... to the officers and/or to those passing by all the while?

the passers-by certainly didn't seem alarmed nor threatened by her presence in any manner.

that is until "the force" came onto the scene.

............................................

Look.
I've no problem whatsoever when an officer of the law acts or reacts in a manner porportionate to the situation at hand, but when they react in a manner disproportionate to the situation and/or circumstance, as seemingly demonstrated here, someone needs to be held accountable.

In this case it would seem the officer needs, at the very least, a bit of remedial training and/or a refresher course on how to properly ASSESS, ADDRESS, or REACT to a given situation or circumstance.

that's all.

Originally posted by ninecrimes


By saying "next time you...", you've only written yourself off in my book as an ignorant forum troll, most likely in mom's basement, trying to tango with the big boys.

And out come the insults.

Not sure why you've taken the words "next time" as a literal translation to " you do this all the time"; I was implying you've never done it and wouldn't have the stones to back up your words when faced with several trained LEOs.

Guess you start to miss the subtext when you devote your time to being an arm-chair bada**.


I could go so far as to question why you would attack anyone who tackled an old lady. What if through tackling the old lady they pulled her out of the way of a moving car; under certain circumstances you might only witness enough to suggest the tackler is a criminal and now you've stomped an innocent man's gray matter to a pulp.

[edit on 8/13/2009 by eNumbra]

Here is a screen capture of where the cop takes the old woman down.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1fee34d65e3f.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by jd140
Atleast we can agree on two things.

1. There wasn't a slam or one that you can point out.

2. The video doesn't show the entirety of what happened before the incident occured.

Here's a link, Video: Cop bodyslams knife-wielding elderly woman, nearly causing 'riot', that I posted in an earlier post in this thread.

And to sum up what happened, according to this article before this video was shot, ...

This is a very frail, 84 year old woman with Alzheimer's, apparently her daughter left her in the car while she ran into Wal-Mart, her mother became confused, didn't know where she was or why she was there, she tried to get out of the car but couldn't unfasten the seat belt, so she found a steak knife in the car(?), cut the seat belt, than wondered around the parking lot, holding the knife, calling out for her daughter, then the cops showed up.

Here is a link to that post,

www.abovetopsecret.com...

"This old lady was in the parking lot of Walmart in Whitehall, Ohio swinging a knife at people, when the police arrived she wouldn't drop the knife so the police officer took her down, the lady also assulted a kid by hitting him which sparked the crowd of people outside anyway, he was with relatives who intervened and that's when the knife swinging started anyone that tried to help her she began to swing her knife at them threatening them."


thedailyvoice.com...

This is from someone who watched the whole thing as it played out.

Really sounds as if she wasn't posing a danger to me. How dare that cop take her to the ground.

Originally posted by jd140
"This old lady was in the parking lot of Walmart in Whitehall, Ohio swinging a knife at people, when the police arrived she wouldn't drop the knife so the police officer took her down, the lady also assulted a kid by hitting him which sparked the crowd of people outside anyway, he was with relatives who intervened and that's when the knife swinging started anyone that tried to help her she began to swing her knife at them threatening them."


thedailyvoice.com...

This is from someone who watched the whole thing as it played out.

Really sounds as if she wasn't posing a danger to me. How dare that cop take her to the ground.

That isn't what the Whitehall newspapers are saying today. They said "A family she approached felt threatened and called 911, said Whitehall Sgt. Joe Huntzinger."

www.snponline.com...




[edit on 13-8-2009 by Bombeni]

reply to post by Bombeni


Only posting what an eyewitness had said.

Believe what you want.

Originally posted by eNumbra
If a police officer asks you to drop your weapon; you either drop your weapon or you have it taken from you. This is how a dangerous situation is resolved.

There was a thread on this earlier and the story apparently went that the old lady was brandishing the knife at people. So either the woman is put down physically or she gets tazed. Either way no one would be happy with the outcome, so maybe those people who still ASSUME the police are first and foremost bullies should get the facts and learn to properly assess a situation.

[edit on 8/13/2009 by eNumbra]

I have to agree 100% I think police abuse the power they have from time to time sometimes more often than not BUT ...... if you have a weapon .... expect to get your Ars KICKED.

How dare that cop take this women down she should have taserd her, or maced her, or shot her, or let her stab someone.

Perfect arm bar takedown, taught in law enforcement academies all over the country. The "Brandishing" as it's called doesn't matter how she was holding the knife. Other people in the parking lot saw the knife, which made them concerned for their and other's safety. Not all cops are martial artist's, most cops are only taught the basics of disarming someone. The people in the parking lot got upset because their not knowledgeable about law enforcment tactic's. I have come into contact with plenty of elderly people who exhibit uncanny strength. Most have psycological problems. It's either take her down, because the officer's safety is paramount, or tase her. But considering all the bad publicity with the taser laetly, I'm not surprised it was not used. Yhea, the elderly female may have been injured, but she's still alive. Unarmed cop versus an amred suspect, you do the math. For all acounts this could have ended a lot worse. GOOD JOB COPS!

Without a shred of doubt,

The police in the U.S. is the WORST trained in the world by far.

What a bunch of idiots. A simple wrist twist would have resolved this within seconds. Having poorly trained guns like these loose on the streets, what do you expect?

What is this, budget cuts in the training department?

Either educate them or do not bother at all with having a police force.

reply to post by Truth4hire


O.K., don't like the tactics they're taught, then you go teach them better. Like I said, it's a perfect arm bar take down taught in academies all over the country. They don't teach cops advanced matrial arts.

reply to post by skyeyes

O.K., don't like the tactics they're taught, then you go teach them better. Like I said, it's a perfect arm bar take down taught in academies all over the country. They don't teach cops advanced matrial arts.

They obviously don't teach them common sense either.

reply to post by MegaCurious


the most shocking' part about this video that some people defending the cops seem to missing, is that the cop hadn't been on the scene more that 20 seconds before slamming this woman to the ground.
Every situation needs to be handles according to that situation.
An 84 year old woman, brandishing a cane, is much less of a threat than a 20-50 year old person... They could have easily removed the knife in an orderly manor, or perhaps have even been able to talk her into putting it away... but they rushed straight to physical brutality, and THAT is what is shocking.

What the #%$@! Someone should have start beating on the cop. Damit! Why do some people make reckless choices, which puts others or themselves into danger. All she had to do is walk over and take the knife from the old lady's hand. Its that simple.

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

 

One with your esteem background (if true) would see that this wasn't a slam, but a simple wrist lock.

Maybe the old lady lost her footing and fell? Who knows, what we do know that the officer used a fairly easy move that most often doesn't cause any type of lasting injury.

But since a freak accident happened this lady should lose her job and strung up in front of the crowd.

I saw with my own two eyes what happened. The wrist lock was poorly executed ( which could have been simplified if she had used the "chicken wing" approach. cops get very little actual hand to hand combat training), the cop struggled with the hip toss afterward (probably causing ligament/tendon damage to the old lady's elbow), and because of the cop's lack of experience, the old lady BASHED her head on the concrete (which is the reason why there was blood layered on the ground)

There are many other approaches that could have been useful. This particular cop wanted to cause damage...plain and simple.