CALLING ALL MILITARY! Former and current!

I was in the USAF. But in boot camp I remember them basically pounding the idea into our head that we are above Civilians and they are nothing. We are above them if we have been in the Military at some point.

reply to post by sd7000


Yes, that was a part of my point exactly, for the grunts, it's "do what I tell you" coming from the brass.

The only way to get past that, was to be a Squad Leader, or Platoon Guide, or get that shiny brass for yourself at O.C.S.

This was how it happened, unless you have a Sergeant above you who knew how to buck back against that cocky Lieutenant who thought they knew everything.

Checks and balances, always in place, always being tested.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Are you a true patriot?

Are you ready to answer the beacon call to arms?

Are you prepared to serve the cause above all else?

Soldiers are the few true and proud countrymen, who understand and have guidance from the commanders, and will answer the clarion call of duty, to serve no master than the call of duty itself, being the cause of action that denies all enemies, both foreign and domestic, and eliminate all who stand in the way of democracy, for the Republic, no matter the cost to themselves.

Originally posted by Fifth_Column_Movement
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Are you a true patriot?

Are you ready to answer the beacon call to arms?

Are you prepared to serve the cause above all else?

Soldiers are the few true and proud countrymen, who understand and have guidance from the commanders, and will answer the clarion call of duty, to serve no master than the call of duty itself, being the cause of action that denies all enemies, both foreign and domestic, and eliminate all who stand in the way of democracy, for the Republic, no matter the cost to themselves.

Patriotism, is a word, used by the Government and military, to incite a feeling of indoctrination to the point of not questioning things said and done.

Call to arms? I am former military, not current, and I follow no master.

Cause, what cause?

The only "cause" I know is the human cause, which is man vs man, Government vs citizen, and their ignorant lies of the white man should hate the black man.

As for the rest of what you rambled off there saying, I believe in fighting the good fight, just do it intelligently, and do it to succeed, and never ever trust those who oppose you in any way, shape, or form.



The military as well teaches you that you are not a man or woman anymore, but that you are the property of the United States Government, and you will follow your orders.

As the saying goes,...a man cannot serve two masters...

If that's just something the Drill Sergeant yells at you in Army Boot Camp, or a Drill Instructor yells at you at Camp Lejeune to get your head "in the game", who knows, but that's what I remember from the Army.

[edit on 30-7-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Of course the military will fire on civilains. Have you ever heard of the Civil War?

If our citizens rise up against the government the military will do their thing. If it's a passive resistance (which it won't be) then I doubt anything serious will happen but once civilians take up arms, whether right or wrong, war will break out.

That is an extreme case but more than likely the government will blur the issue as others have said making it very difficult for the military to disobey. And unless it is obvious that the government is doing great harm there's no reason anyone in the military shouldn't follow orders.

You have to realize that most of us in the military do not frequent this board or others like it and the government while not perfect certainly isn't acting as if they want to harm civilians so unless we get an order like shoot those people standing in front of that ditch of course we will obey.

If we are told that a certain city is being quarinteened for a disease outbreak and nobody is too leave under any circumstances that is what we'll do. If people do try to leave there are many options available before deadly force is required but if it comes to that it will happen.

Any of us officers in the U.S. military have the absolute right to get verification of any order we deem out of the ordinary and even though it would probably be a career ender if you ever exercised that option I personally don't know of anyone in command of troops that would not question a far out order like going door to door to collect guns.

But once again unless you have a definte cause for delay any officer or soldier, rightly so, should follow orders. That's what makes a military effective otherwise you just have an armed bunch of people in the same color uniform.

Originally posted by gallifreyan medic
I'll just say IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN.Both illegal wars.
Orders illegal but yet were and still are being carried out because of what was/is told.


Taking on the average Joe,well take your pick of sayings.Picnic in the park,turkey shoot.etc.

1. Anyone who gets killed during the commission of a crime has been murdered, and those who have killed them are murderers. Hard for people who think of themselves as 'good' to accept the fact that they are murderers, I've noticed.
A person who caries out an illegal order is a criminal.

2.Shooting civilians has been called many things including ' a picnic in the park ' , I'm sure.

It's just so sad that so many come from such bad ' backgrounds ' , that they feel it's alright or even cool to steal people's lives.

Perhaps the elite are right, and all this riff-raff should be killed off. Um , I mean murdered.

reply to post by dooper


LOL! From one vet to another - well said! So true! So true! I am still laughing!

Originally posted by Skelkie3
1. Anyone who gets killed during the commission of a crime has been murdered, and those who have killed them are murderers.

Killing people in time of war isn't murder. There's a difference.

Originally posted by Skelkie3
Hard for people who think of themselves as 'good' to accept the fact that they are murderers, I've noticed.

I've killed people in time of war. Don't consider myself a murderer, and I sleep well every night.

Originally posted by Skelkie3
It's just so sad that so many come from such bad ' backgrounds ' , that they feel it's alright or even cool to steal people's lives.

"Bad" backgrounds? You mean you're buying into the John Kerry "Stupid people go to Iraq" crap? Or that everyone in the military is a moron?

Keep on buying that line of thinking. Let me know how it works for you.

Originally posted by Skelkie3
Perhaps the elite are right, and all this riff-raff should be killed off. Um , I mean murdered.

Now don't tell me you're calling for the death of Amercian servicemen and women, are you? That's pretty pathetic.

reply to post by sd7000


I seem to recall just the opposite in Army training, although that was over 25 years ago. At least while on post civilians then were to be referred to as Sir or Ma'am, a courtesy usually only given to officers. The hierarchy was never spelled out as you seemed to have experienced, but the implication was that we were the lowly servants and the civilians occupied a higher level in the food chain.

In fact, upon graduation the DI's would speak to parents and relatives and address them as Sir or Ma'am.

I think the government would have an extremely tough time selling the idea of performing any kind of hostile action anywhere within our borders, only because, at least from Active Duty, you've got a soldier representing almost every corner of the country (including PR), and that's just at the Company level! And considering that a soldier spends at least 50% of their time wishing they were home for good or on leave, you'd have at least one guy per unit begging his buddies not to open fire on his home town.

Now, if the government continues to come up with these "homegrown" terrorist plot ideas, and moving from people that "look" middle-eastern and such to guys that look more like Bo & Luke Duke, AND get people to believe it, then things might get complicated.

I saw this post and thought it was food for thought but after watching this video

www.youtube.com...

I'm sad to say I dont know if friends and family wouldn't follow orders given to them.

Originally posted by 6EQUJ5
reply to post by sd7000

 

Now, if the government continues to come up with these "homegrown" terrorist plot ideas, and moving from people that "look" middle-eastern and such to guys that look more like Bo & Luke Duke, AND get people to believe it, then things might get complicated.

I'm sure you're referring to the Boyds in North Carolina... That ENTIRE mess is fishy at best, if one inspects just the facts that are available to the general public. Forget the indictment... It's sealed, and not even complete at this point. They still have things to add!

Who is the "7th" suspect too? What about the "woman" that the MSM slipped in mentioning? That's a head scratcher, isn't it?

Remember the way the MSM kept referring to the killers a few weeks ago in Florida as "military style assassins"? Check another strike up against "domestic terrorists" in the collective subconsious of the American people...

The thing that REALLY bothers me, though, is the public opinion that service personnel are mindless robots.

Do people realize that the chances are fairly good that somebody they know and/or trust are likely veterans?

Do people realize that these same veterans have already been singled out, and continue to be so, by the DHS and other federal/local agencies as potential domestic extremists?

Look at the past, too... It's almost ALWAYS mentioned that Lee Harvey Oswald was in the Marine Corps, and "learned" to shoot there. (In spite of the fact that if you look at his service record, he was barely an adequet shot at Parris Island.)

Likewise Charles Whitman... Also a Marine long before he climbed that tower in Texas and opened fire...

These, as well as other examples are clear reasons why all active duty, as well as veterans, should be situationally aware at all times. Make no mistake... ANY act that can be used to vilify our training can and WILL be used in the court of public opinion. There should be no question- history has shown us countless times. You have to ask yourself: Do YOU want to be a patsy for TPTB to further their nefarious agenda?

As for any active duty personnel out there that WOULD "follow orders" to assist in implementation of martial law/ firearm confiscation, etc. I just thought of something that to me, went unspoken because I KNOW the Constitutionality. Perhaps y'all don't, and I'd like to remind you...

There's this little "hitch" to the military acting on US soil in lieu of local and state peace officers. It's called Posse Comitatus:

A law enacted in 1878 to prohibit the use of the U.S. army in civilian law enforcement, unless otherwise instructed by the president, thereby excluding the military from the civilian sphere. After President Ulysses S. Grant sent a posse comitatus to the polls in the election of 1876, it was presented by Southern Democratic members of the House who resented the use of federal troops during Reconstruction.

Now, I know what you're thinking... This only includes the active duty Army. Ok, I can deal with that. You may even be thinking that "King George" Bush (2) enacted several Executive Orders rendering this act impotent... Perhaps.

We shall see if the LAW trumps illegal Executive Orders, shall we?

Illegal? Why is that? Look up the definition of Executive Orders, their purpose, etc... Even the most biased researcher will admit that many, if not ALL of the E.O.'s signed since FDR, or even sooner, are not truly legal.

Like I've said before... I have FAITH in my USMC bretheren, specifically the NCO's (If you've been there, you know that Sargeants RUN the Corps anyway...) to make the correct and moral decision. I feel that the vast majority will choose the Constitution as their governance over a corrupt and control happy Executive branch... Regardless of the "light" that the MSM and "intel" portrays the American people.

READ BETWEEN THE LIES!

reply to post by cbianchi513

Remember the way the MSM kept referring to the killers a few weeks ago in Florida as "military style assassins"? Check another strike up against "domestic terrorists" in the collective subconsious of the American people...

cbianchi513, it's indoctrination, by rote. I remember hearing stories, reading stories, and watching documentaries about the veterans coming home after Vietnam, the way that American citizens spit on those soldiers, who did their duty. The soldiers, are just following orders, whether they believe in them or not, is irrelevant.

The crux of the situation is that while soldiers go off to die "for their country" and our Congress and President get us locked into a war, like Bush, Cheney, and gang did in Iraq, organizations like P.N.A.C. are organizing the lies ahead of time to get us into the war against American citizens wishes, for oil.

This is effective usage of a think-tank that can knowingly manipulate the media and the citizens through it and utilize events like 9/11 as a focal point in order to lie to America because of the experience of the people within the think-tank itself.

The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was an American think tank based in Washington, D.C. that lasted from early 1997 to 2006.

It was co-founded as a non-profit educational organization by neoconservatives William Kristol and Robert Kagan. The PNAC's stated goal was "to promote American global leadership."

Fundamental to the PNAC were the view that "American leadership is both good for America and good for the world" and support for "a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity."

The PNAC exerted influence on high-level U.S. government officials in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush and affected the Bush Administration's development of military and foreign policies, especially involving national security and the Iraq War.

So many citizens do not know exactly how Washington D.C. works, unfortuanately.

Look at the list of members from P.N.A.C., it's like reading a who's who on Wall Street, Washington D.C., and the movers and shakers on Capitol Hill :

* William Kristol

* Robert Kagan

* Bruce Jackson

If you continue on down the list you will start seeing some other names like "Scooter" Libby, or J Danforth Quayle (Dan Quayle, former Vice-President), and Paul Wolfowitz, and a slew of other Washington insiders.

Too many Americans unfortuanately, do not understand or know how the military works, nor the process of or even what a think-tank does, let alone that politicians in Washington D.C. sit there and think of ways to bypass the public sentiment by utilizing these spin doctors, to "sell the story" of why America needs to get involved in some crappy war in some crappy country, that has little to nothing to do with America itself, and certainly is not for "alleged" Weapons of Mass Destruction, but about the bottom line, oil, and how to keep it flowing, and keep the money going into the rich people's pockets and screw the America tax-payer in the process by making us foot the bill.

The thing that REALLY bothers me, though, is the public opinion that service personnel are mindless robots.

Do people realize that the chances are fairly good that somebody they know and/or trust are likely veterans?

Do people realize that these same veterans have already been singled out, and continue to be so, by the DHS and other federal/local agencies as potential domestic extremists?

My point is here, that public opinion is so easily swayed by people like the P.N.A.C. think-tank, because their job is in fact just to do that, manipulate the mindset of American television watchers.

This is because the Government remembers what happened to our vets after Vietnam, the problem though is that this time around, instead of sitting on their political backsides, they're going to use this as an excuse to harrass our soldiers coming home from a war they did not want to fight, but did, from a war we citizens did not wants our soldiers dieing in, but did, and utilize the situation to cause more strife among America, but spin it off as a mass win for the agenda of the "fringe element" is coming home, from Iraq.

Look at the past, too... It's almost ALWAYS mentioned that Lee Harvey Oswald was in the Marine Corps, and "learned" to shoot there. (In spite of the fact that if you look at his service record, he was barely an adequet shot at Parris Island.)

Likewise Charles Whitman... Also a Marine long before he climbed that tower in Texas and opened fire...

These, as well as other examples are clear reasons why all active duty, as well as veterans, should be situationally aware at all times. Make no mistake... ANY act that can be used to vilify our training can and WILL be used in the court of public opinion. There should be no question- history has shown us countless times. You have to ask yourself: Do YOU want to be a patsy for TPTB to further their nefarious agenda?

I know, and I cannot say how many other know it or not, that the system uses people like Oswald and Chapman, as a fringe extremist element, as a conveniant cover for a "disenfranchised American" in order to escalate a situation in order to make it a plausible deniability action that their hands were clean of the event, because some "lone nutcase" who "acted alone" all on their own, and no one else assisted them, when in reality the person was set onto that path as a patsy because in actuality they were someone just like you or I who were truly ticked off that the Government gets away with the lies it sells through using the black and white of newspaper print to shade it into gray.

As for any active duty personnel out there that WOULD "follow orders" to assist in implementation of martial law/ firearm confiscation, etc. I just thought of something that to me, went unspoken because I KNOW the Constitutionality. Perhaps y'all don't, and I'd like to remind you...

There's this little "hitch" to the military acting on US soil in lieu of local and state peace officers. It's called Posse Comitatus:


A law enacted in 1878 to prohibit the use of the U.S. army in civilian law enforcement, unless otherwise instructed by the president, thereby excluding the military from the civilian sphere. After President Ulysses S. Grant sent a posse comitatus to the polls in the election of 1876, it was presented by Southern Democratic members of the House who resented the use of federal troops during Reconstruction.

This is what organizations like Blackwater (Xe), Kroll, and Triple Canopy are for, to bypass the checks and balances our Constitution set into place to keep politicians in line with what America was and was not supposed to do.

Blackwater : Left-Wing Liberal America, & Shifting Alliance, Leading Because It's For Our Future...

Again, unfortunately, there are rules and regulations to stop the politicians, but they know to bypass those laws, which were set into place, to protect citizens like you and I, and the rest of the world.

It's not the black and white that should so much concern Americans, as the gray inbetween where the politicians utilize that lack of knowledge and or interpretation based upon a technicality in able to put the "fringe element" on trial via events like 9/11, Oklahoma, and Oswald as a means to an end.

If you think about what a fringe itself is, it is the outer part of something, that is neither left, nor right, and not in the middle, but so far to the left or right so as to the point where it might fall off the proverbial map as far as statistics where these politicians have their numbers run by an errand boy who gives them the demographics of America and there are a select group of citizens who will not stand for abuses by our Government, and that "fringe" just needs a gentle, subtle, or even sometimes swift kick in the keister to act.

This is where we get our Ruby Ridge's, our Waco's, and our "homegrown terrorist" definitions from, not because someone was necessarily stupid enough to pick up that gun, or stockpile those weapons, or plot that assassination, but because they were directed by a force of numbers of a group of people to influence it to happen. A good example of this, set in Hollywood as just a really good movie would be "Arlington Road", where "Michael Faraday" (think about that name, the implication of the real Michael Faraday, "Faraday Cage") is surrounded by a group of people, who do not seem to be who they say they are, and get this innocent man who is actually disenfranchised with his Government because his wife was killed in a Ruby Ridge type event, and then they set him up to commit the most heinous crime by bringing the bomb into the Washington D.C. Headquarters building of the F.B.I.

Correct, our soldiers are not necessarily mindless robots, but there are groups of people out there who know how to provoke those people into an action, regardless if they understand they are being provoked, and used as a means to an end to enact something that will give those politicians a reason to take away our guns, watch our e-mails, or change the laws to suit their needs based upon an event that was manipulated to happen in the first place.



[edit on 31-7-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Great post, as usual SKL...

Have you noticed around you that an unusually high proportion of those that you would consider "Constitutionally aware" are veterans? Don't know if it's that way where you are, but it seems to be around here.

Likewise the folks I run into at the range.

My problem is: I didn't really have an interest in finding the truth until a few years ago. I'd like to point to a seminal event in the process, but I really can't single one thing out.

It's pretty difficult to get folks (including me, at one point, years ago) to believe that there IS a storm coming. The almighty TV and XBox seems to govern most people's actions.

Frustrating? Yes. Scary? You bet.

Keep fighting the good fight brother.

BTW- I went and became an ASM in the local troop, like I said I was going to... The Constitution is a popular topic among the boys and adult leadership, and that really is encouraging. Thought you'd like to know. There really IS hope, if you go looking for it.