You have every right in the world to whoop ya kid's..PLZ start I am sick of all the punk's

Hey guys, this is my first post on this website. I love ATS!!

But to get back to the point. My father beat me with a belt twice (not actually beat me up, but nice welts on my back side), and thats it. Theres a reason why i only got the belt twice, i learned my lesson. I grew up around a lot of kids that had parents that acted like friend and not parents. Most of them disregarded everything their parents said and took them as a joke. They didn't listen to their "parents" because they were just "friends". I personally believe that spanking/whooping isn't beating your kids. The only thing grounding does is piss you off more. Getting spanked teaches you at a very young age who's boss.

A parent can still be a parent and not a "Buddy" without using pain behavior modification. Inflicting pain to make a point or correct a behavior is still inflicting pain.

IT HURTS! It HURTS to get hit. IT HURTS to get slapped! Stop hitting. Stop using pain behavior modification. STOP!

Stop trying to justify it by using terms like "Spankin" or "Whuppin".

You are hurting someone through the use of pain behavior modification.

I'm not sure if this is a valid point or not,

But parents spank in order to show them they have done something wrong right? Sometimes the spank is absolutely nothing in comparison to the real life punishments they may have received if they had followed through, or kept on doing the act.

I'm unsure of whether we should act as if spanking is a big deal, you have to remember we are still animals.

And with animals in nature, the punishment you receive for messing up is usually death.

I'd say we have it pretty easy by comparison.

You have to remember we have somewhat bypassed the only the strong survive rules of nature. Now the stupid survive too.

If we don't even attempt to replace the natural laws of natures punishment/learning system, what is that going to create?
Probably nothing very good, if you look at every single other example of what happens when you go against nature.

What i'm trying to say is, I think punishment and cause and effect is a part of living that children have to learn. The earlier the better. But they have to understand why they're being punished.

Originally posted by TriggerFish
Violence is part of the human condition because it is genetic. It is not nuture, it is nature.

Just because we have a violent past and present does not mean that we are genetically doomed/predestined to continue in that vein forever. Just because we have traditionally hit our offspring when they do something "wrong" doesn't mean that we can't come up with better ways to train children.

It has helped humanity reach the success we as species enjoy today.

World War 2 gave us all sorts of great technology, including getting us to the moon. In fact, we are still reaping the rewards of the second world war. Does that mean that war should just be accepted? Because it can have what we see as positive side effects?

By the same token, spanking may have produced what the human race needed in the past to get where it is now, but we need to start moving past using violence as a solution to every problem. We aren't cavemen with clubs anymore, we're developing into a possibly space-faring civilization with nuclear weapons. The time for acting like angry troglodytes has passed; we need to evolve. How we treat our children is central to that process.

But, I am a realist and accept reality for what it is. Those not willing to accept reality will never be able to change it.

I agree that we must see and accept things as they are, but we must also be willing to try to change things if we want improvement. Just accepting everything will get us nowhere.

[edit on 28/7/2009 by BarryZuckercorn]

reply to post by unityemissions


Haha you were one messed up kid, As the middle child in my family with 2 other brothers we got into mischief and got spankings. It was the best thing for me as the child. I remember many times after I got a spanking for something that I would at LEAST think about what I was doing and not just doing. Remember you are the adult and they are the child, you are NOT equal even in the eyes of the law. It is the parents responsibility to keep there kids in line. They not you are the ones with a developing brain and principles (not saying adults principles don't change), but if your kid walks over you, YOU ARE TO BLAME. A great modern movie that shows the differences how kids act nowadays is Gran Torino, and its entertaining.

DK

I think people need to realize its not about spanking or inflicting pain, its about dominance. Its about showing them who is boss.

First and foremost, lest define BAD. I have seen parents spank their kids for spilling pop on the carpet. THAT is abuse. That is a response born from anger. You can't blame a kid for being clumsy, they are still developing their fine motor skills. However, you have to show them consequence. You made the mess, now you have to clean it up.

Here is BAD. Once when I was young I was with my mom at K-mart looking at the toy section. She said we had to go. I said I wanted to stay. When she said no, I started screaming and bashing the floor with my fists. She grab my arm, took me out to the parking lot, pulled down my pants and spanked me till my ass was red. She then looked my straight in the eye, without malice or hate, and said "Don't you ever do that again!!". Guess what I never did again.

As a parent, you have to analyze and make a decision devoid of anger. Is the child being bad, or is the child being a child.

And don't give me the "you just have to be reasonable with the child and tell them why they can't act that way". Look at the example above. How can you be reasonable with 'someone' (forget the fact that I was 5) who is screaming and bashing the floor because he can't look at toys? Being reasonable is what you do when they pass the age of about 10, thats when they start to really develop an adult mind. They're still not quite there, but close enough that reasoning will work, if you did you job as a parent properly before that age.

However, like I said above, its not about the spanking, its about dominance. You don't have to spank, just be the boss and let them know that you can't be bought or manipulated.

Case in point. I used to babysit my nephews when I was a teenager (they were about 6 and 8, I was about 15). My sister was the type would would just ignore the kids when they were pestering her, and she would eventually give in. "Mommy, I want a cookie, give me a cookie mommy...." "Alright fine, here you go". As you can Imagine, as a result of this they were spoiled little brats.

Then I came along. The first time I babysat the boys got in a fight over some toy and the older one hit the younger one, hard. I said "don't hit your brother or your going to bed!". He just gave me this defiant stare and then hit him again.

So, I just walked over, picked him up and took him upstairs. Now I didn't do what most parents do and just leave him in his bedroom. He had a TV, Nintendo, transformers etc.... I put him in bed, locked the door to his cupboard with all the toys, took the power adapter for the Nintendo and the cable for the TV, unscrewed the light bulb from the ceiling and just left him with his night light.

Now, this is where the dominance and some subtly came in. I made a threat and I followed through, but I left him with his books, even the comic books. Its always good for kids to read no matter what they are reading. I didn't make an issue out of it. I didn't even mention them or look at them. You know kids will never do something you tell them to do. I just left them as his only option. When I came to check on him an hour later (after the screaming had stopped), he was reading.

This is when you can reason with them, tell them what they did was wrong and why they had to suffer the consequences of their actions.

Basically, my point is this. Like I said before, kids won't do what you tell them to do. All you can do is be dominant, let them know when they have misbehaved and that they can't do that. But on the other side of the coin, you have to indirectly encourage them to take the right course of action on their own accord. That, in my opinion, is the only why they can learn. Thats how my parents taught me.

i am 14 years old and all i have to say is i know a lot of kids who should have been spanked when they were children because now they just walk around cocky and act too tough and have no discipline in thier lives. the truth is that children need more discipline than ever in times like now so they dont grow up to be someone who you wish was never put on this earth

reply to post by domingo666


Hi there,
Would be cool if you shared some experiences with us, or have any insight.
Since you may be more aware of certain things than we are.

I was spanked as a kid, and even had the belt twice.
I turned out just fine, but I can tell you now that I wont do it to my kids.
I felt it was very unjust at the time, and still do, and still hold a bit of a grudge to this day.
I think I will raise my children just fine with other, non abusive and non psychologically damaging, punishments.
Thats just me, to each his own.
Some of my best friends that have the best relationships with their parents were never spanked, and they turned out just as fine as I did.
I think love goes further than abuse or violence in any regard.
If I hold that (nonviolence) mind set with war, then it should be incorporated into ALL aspects of my life.
But I can't tell you how to raise your kids, thats your call.

To me a parent who has to "spank" or "woop" a child then they either
1: too lazy to be a proper parent and shouldn't be
or
2:unable to be a proper parent and shouldn't be.
Sorry, but there are countless parents who do not spank and get the same or better results.
There are parents that don't spank and let their kids run over them as well so I'll also say this.

To me a parent who doesn't spank their child NOR can figure out a way to communicate with the child to stop them then
---- they shouldn't be a parent.

Just because you love someone and are able to reproduce, this isn't a reason to have children.

b

reply to post by TheAmused


In New Zealand here, its currently illegal for parents to hit their kids. The government is puting out a referendum to ask people's opinions on whether it should still be illegal or should the law here be changed. They had major difficulties in just getting the wording of the proposed referendum correct.

It reads like a backwards question “Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offence in New Zealand?”

"If its wrong to hit an adult, how can it be right to hit a child?"

yesvote.org.nz...

Originally posted by unityemissions
Treat you kid as an equal

I would like to chime in here. Some people don't deserve to be parents. The equality of a spitting image "like father like son" may only exacerbate the problem. Most children don't grow up in an 80's Huxtable family. Some things work well with certain children, but the same action differs with others.

Interesting debate.


I can only recommend to fully analyze and correct a kid's behaviour at his youngest age of understanding.
You don't have to smack, simply grounding a young child to make him/her understand his behaviour doesnt belong here really works.
Also children learn by observation: they will 'inconsciously' record the behaviour around them, parents specially and mimic it in some ways.
So both parents need to change their attitude/behaviour and keep all the negative moments out of their sights until a certain age.

Because nobody is perfect, parents must also learn to apologize. If you are never sorry, why should your kids?

Domestic Violence is a big problem in New Zealand, there are many children here who are murdered every year as a result of an adult 'disciplining' them. Some horrific cases have been in the news over the last 6 years or so. Children being placed in boiling bath water, or being placed in a clothes dryer and the clothes dryer then turned on until the child died, being hung on a clothes line, burned with cigarettes, beaten by multiple teenaged boys-I'm talking about a 3year old little girl.

Because 'discipline' means so many things to different people I think it should be illegal to hit a child as to some a slap is a minor flick of the hand to some part of the child's body, but to others, a slap means open handed full palm around the head. Then what are they going to resort to when their 'slapping' no longer has any effect? harder slaps? punches? a little murder here and there?

Why not give the child the option of "Time Out' where they go in their room until they're ready to come out and apologize, or the option of "withholding their favourite thing for a little while, or denying them something that they value" eg. deny watching their favourite program for a week, or take the favourite toy off them for a day or two and explain why this has been done.

www.google.co.nz...

Heres a link to a few sites on a google search just showing how many cases there have been in NZ alone.

lols.
if you are too stupid to explain to your kid, who is also too stupid to understand, what they have done wrong and why its wrong, then you are failing parenthood.
Hitting is what a monkey would do. Actually monkeys probably know better most of the time.

reply to post by thedonjuan


Excellent post I totally agree with you re: the dominance. I really don't believe bashing a child does any good. Withholding favourite things does have some teaching in it for the child. And like it says on one website "Hitting children just teaches them that its ok to go around hitting people" so what will they carry forward in their conditioning? and what will they use as a means of resolving future problems? they'll just go around hitting people.

An advert which is against Family Violence that screens on tv now and then is a testimony from a "recovering wife and child beater" where he states that when he was a child and if he did anything wrong he got the bash, so he grew up thinking that was love and he just wanted to spread as much of that 'love' around as he could. So he beat his wife and children to show them how much he 'loved' them.

www.areyouok.org.nz...

The link to his story on Are You Ok NZ.

I was really badly abused when I was a child.. I've been pistol whipped, had guns in my mouth and pressed against my face and all because my parents were drunk drug addicts. It disgusts me.

HOWEVER I agree with disciplining your children. BUT NOT with ANY kind of violence.

I have a daughter now and shes a good girl and never acts up but if she ever does I will have my WIFE discipline her. I don't think as a man I should discipline a girl. Having a man doing the discipline I could imagine would be traumatic and very scary to a little girl. Its not right in my book. Plus my daughters my angel I could never, ever do anything to her, even "discipline" her. Call me a "pussy" or whatever, I don't care.

And this doesnt mean I'm going to have my wife do everything. My wife was abused as a child too but not nearly to the extent I was. To be completely honest yall being a abused person myself I may have some weird thing deep down inside and I don't trust myself disciplining my child. I'd rather have my wife do it to be safe. I don't want to let out any deep down violent tendencies or demons I may have because a lot of abused people do have these tendencies.

And by discipline I mean my wife will use WORDS to discipline her. Or we will just take away her toys and stuff and if that doesnt work we will try something else. BUT NO BEATING EVER. That is SO WRONG! She is only 4 and hasn't acted up literally at all yet but I'm sure she will some day.

Some parents start off by discipling their children but I think many go WAY to far.

As an abused person myself I will say YOU DO NOT beat children. Also many abused children grow up and have violent tendencies, I THANK GOD I don't have violent tendencies and most the time I'm calm.

You people who agree with hitting children must not have kids yourself. I don't understand how ANYONE could hit a child.

Peace



[edit on 28-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

"Taught you valuable lessons" ?
Lessons like what ? Respect authority ?
"Punks" are not the result of "not enough beatings". I got a beating as a child - with the single effect of making me lose self confidence - in time I can say I gained it back. I learned nothing I did not knew already.

Did you know that tribal people never beat their kids, never make them do what they do not want ? how come they did not grow up to be "punks" ?

Because human nature is not "antisocial". Humans do not need beatings to fit into society, except if it's a slave society. No beatings, no pressure of any kind = gain self confidence and later join your tribe and be a part of it because that is what you want as a free human. But in the case of our society - it's another story- it's not for free humans, it's for slaves. That is why children do not naturally fit into it, so they need beatings and molding.

------------

To most of the roles society offers, I say, "You are made for more than that." We inhabit, in the words of Ivan Illich, "a world into which nobody fits who has not been crushed and molded by sixteen years of formal education." The very idea of having to be at a job "on time" was appalling to early industrial laborers, who also refused the numbing repetitiveness of industrial work until the specter of starvation compelled them. What truly self-respecting person would spend a life marketing soda pop or chewing gum unless they were somehow broken by repeated threats to survival?

www.ascentofhumanity.com...

--------

When confronted with the awesome power of civilization whose first representatives are parents, teachers, priests (and, later on, police officers, legislators and bosses) the child faces, psychologically, the same situation as its tribal ancestors, namely, conform to the dictates of civilization or die. The helplessness of childhood makes the threat of bodily harm or loss of love, which is used by the parents and others to enforce civilized morality and civilized education, a traumatic experience.

-------

The importance of this self-respect as a prime motivator of human nature can hardly be overstated; it may enable an individual to defy civilization, even in the face of the hatred of the whole modern world. When an individual acquires fundamental self-respect, then s/he will be made a fool no longer, and all the blows of civilization are nothing but the battle scars of a proud warrior. Civilization is powerless against it, because a person who has re-claimed fundamental self-respect cares nothing about the laws and standards of civilization.

This self-respect leads to genuine self-love, the second and decisive step on the path to sanity, for self-love (and happiness in large measure) consists in becoming one's own ideal again, as in childhood. This self-love eventually overflows and becomes love for others and for external nature.

www.primitivism.com...


See the book "The Continuum Concept":
www.continuum-concept.org...



[edit on 28-7-2009 by pai mei]

I kinda think that it was good for me to get wooped when my dad was here, i don't do much stupid # coz of them, and i've learnt many lessons in life. I think however that you should not "whoop" children when they make an accident or a mistake, or yel at them, i think you should whoop your kids when they intentionally do something wrong, or when they never learn their lesson from "hey, don't [insert bad thing here] again!"

Nowadays generation, which i am in, is kinda tight. I was hanging with a couple of friends once, and he just goes to an ice cream parlour and orders something and walks off without paying for it. My other friend made fun of a disabled guy, and later that day called a security guard a bitch, and that sorta has an influence especially in peer groups.

A smack or a slap is alright, beating the living # outta ya kid is just #ed,

reply to post by TheAmused


Top marks, mate

I fully agree with you. It's always been my contention that the reason why many (not all, of course) kids and young adults are so disrespectful and arrogant is because no one dared lay a hand on them from fear of legal reprisal.

I certainly wasn't "beaten" by my parents, but I did get many smacks and spankings when I was younger for being a right little s**t. And my punishments, upon reflection, were well deserved too!

And I'm not a killer or violent person. I've never been in trouble with the law or been in fights, etc. I learned to respect my elders.

I do wish, very much, that the UK has mandatory National Service, where some of these kids who think they're untouchable and live outside the law because they know no one is legally allowed to do anything to them, could have the snot beat out of them seven ways from Sunday.

Personally, I don't believe a "lovey-dovey", "hugs-and-kisses" approach will stop a problem child. If you're child is already well adjusted and respectful then there's no problem. But if they are an atrocious monster, then all the love in the world won't change them. They need to know who is in charge, who runs the show and who brought them into this world (cos they can sure as flip take them out of it! )

And I do recognise that there's lots of good kids out there, so I'm only referring to the s**t ones.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by noonebutme]