You have every right in the world to whoop ya kid's..PLZ start I am sick of all the punk's

Originally posted by Ohio_Ron

If you took the time to examine a consensus of America's families, you'd find that, probably. 85% of those families will tell you that positive re-enforcement doesn't work more than 30% of the time.

In order for positive reinforcement to work the parent must outsmart the child.

I'm not sure what your source is for the percentages that you gave (I suspect that you just came up with them on the spot), but my rebuttal would be that most of the families in America (or most everywhere else on this planet) are dysfunctional. Do you consult a dysfunctional person when you are trying to decide how to raise a child?

Instilling "respect" (more accurately "fear") in a child through violence of any kind will simply instill in that child the belief that the ultimate recourse to resolve any situation is a violent one. Violence, even spanking, will only lead to more violence.

Originally posted by Ohio_Ron

I sometimes wonder if the parents are the ones who should be beaten. The children are just victims of their parents stupidity !

That could very well be. When you raise a child, the child is watching you.

Excellent point !
Starred !
Good posts by the way !!!

[edit on 27-7-2009 by jfj123]

Originally posted by 6EQUJ5
reply to post by Ohio_Ron

 

Sure, here it is.
www.carrborocitizen.com...

It's best when they reach driving age and obtain their license, with the possibility of having the car privileges taken away the dishes are definitely done and rooms are cleaned.

The first two paragraphs stated in your link said the same thing, verbatim as you did. Was what you said your words.... or the words that you read online, hmmmm.
Don't believe everything that you read online!

reply to post by badmedia


I was hoping you'd follow along with the drug analogy in my head, but I should've been more clear. Much like marijuana is often a gateway drug to harder drugs (ie coc aine, crack, etc), there seems to evidence of "whooping" being a gateway to more severe abuse.

I hope that you guys do not find this offensive but your Mom's must have been really terrible cooks.

Being told I could not have a Piece of Mom's home made Chocolate Bunt cake with homemade liquid icing drizzled all over it or getting punished by being denied a slice of that famous Mom homemade Hot Apple pie and real vanilla bean ice cream was enough to make me swear allegiance before The Gods themselves that I would be good and never disobey them again.

L2Cook

when i was a young kid, below 10yo, i would get a butt whooping everytime i got into trouble, yea, the fear of my dad is what kept me outa trouble when i started hanging with the wrong crowd in high school, not getting into trouble with the authoritys, it was the fear of my dad!!!

honestly, if it wasnt for the fear of an ass whooping, i would probably be dead or in jail right now, almost all of those kids i started hanging with are eather dead or in jail, theres only one who turned his life around after going to jail, hes married has 3 kids and runs a school for mentaly/physicly dissabled kids now

Originally posted by lellomackin
You can call it a "spanking", but attacking you're kid, which is what is is, is the sign of a weak mind.

Not understanding that sometimes negative re-enforcement can be a good thing is also a sign of a weak mind. What do you do when your child walks up to a wall socket with a fork and tries to stick it in the hole? Do you politely suggest that little billy find another avenue for his ankst? No, you yell STOP. Why? Because you need to stop the situation immediately to prevent little billy from becoming a toaster strudel.

If you can't figure out a better way to control the behavior of a child, then you are the one that needs to be on medication and not the kid.

And this obviously works so well. Been out in public around kids lately? They have the manors of a pack of hyena's.

Really, you have respect for a cop that beats you down for some minor offense? Like talking back?

There's a huge difference between swatting your kid on the butt and getting a beating from a cop with a night stick and the fact that you don't understand the difference disturbs me.

Take away their freedom, ground them , take TV or games away, take away their books, whatever it is they REALLY want.

It doesn't work. They don't care.

Don't be so simple minded. Please

I might suggest the same of you.

reply to post by Ohio_Ron


They were the words, from the article, which is why that portion of my post was within quotation marks. I find that paper to be reputable, but I'm certain we could find the original source somewhere in UNC archives.

Since you're questioning the validity, the burden is now on you.

reply to post by jfj123


Actually, I think I'd let little billy did it... See I did something similar as a youngster, and no one was around to say "Hey stop, you bloody moron!" instead, I got shocked, and quickly learned what that electrical socket does.

These darn kids these days. They are so out of control I am not sure what we should be doing? They are getting more and more wild! Now they are shaking their hips on National Television! Before you know it they will be stealing the mule team and going for a joy ride into town!

Originally posted by BarryZuckercorn

Originally posted by Ohio_Ron

If you took the time to examine a consensus of America's families, you'd find that, probably. 85% of those families will tell you that positive re-enforcement doesn't work more than 30% of the time.

In order for positive reinforcement to work the parent must outsmart the child.

I'm not sure what your source is for the percentages that you gave (I suspect that you just came up with them on the spot), but my rebuttal would be that most of the families in America (or most everywhere else on this planet) are dysfunctional. Do you consult a dysfunctional person when you are trying to decide how to raise a child?

You're right, I came up with the precentages on the spot, after thinking about every family that I have known through-out the United States and Mexico. This is an unauthorized study by myself of What I have experienced in my life. There is no data available, but this is what I have experienced. What I have found is that a spanking has never hurt anyone's family that I'm aware of.

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by jfj123

 

Actually, I think I'd let little billy did it... See I did something similar as a youngster, and no one was around to say "Hey stop, you bloody moron!" instead, I got shocked, and quickly learned what that electrical socket does.

The only real drawback is that there is enough amperage to potentially kill someone. That would be one tough lesson to learn if you lived.

Originally posted by 6EQUJ5
I am of the opinion that most "whoopings" are a result of anger and frustration by the parent or guardian in being incapable of rationally dealing with a child's negative behavior.

As you said... MOST... not all.

I was trying to get that point across earlier, but of course it got ignored with all the knee jerk responses going on with the subject at hand. If you ever hit out of anger, you're wrong. That's all there is to it. A parent must remove themselves from an emotional response to be able to make a rational decision

Of course, that's how it should be under any circumstances, but especially in the case of dealing with your children.

Originally posted by TheAmused
Roll back the clock to the 40's and 50's & 60's.

I think I already did that reading your post...

But here's the deal - whoop 'em! take your hand to them and show them who's boss. You're better than them, smarter than them, lived longer, and brought them into this world! That gives you the right to...

Take away their self esteem
Take away their will to explore new things
Take away their effectiveness
Break them down so they can fit in like you do
Make them cry in the closet and suppress their feelings
Treat them like an animal so they too will never grow up and know how much compassion [that's like caring], sharing, and giving to another human being make a person feel good.

yep, you have every right to hit a kid - you also have every right to treat him or her with respect and dignity so they can trust people.

*

I have a feeling you are very set in your ways and will not be open to 'candy butt, new age types' but I hope you recognize that beating a child is NOT the only way.

Ever stop to think maybe kids behave badly so they can get attention? Giving them that attention in a positive way works too! Kids just want attention - hitting them provides attention, then they remember that doing bad stuff gets them that.

~ from Candy butt, new age type getting his Master's degree in Psychology

Originally posted by 6EQUJ5
reply to post by Ohio_Ron

 

Since you're questioning the validity, the burden is now on you.

I'll be back. I have to get up early...but we will continue this conversation. And I will refute your sources.

Originally posted by jfj123
Not understanding that sometimes negative re-enforcement can be a good thing is also a sign of a weak mind. What do you do when your child walks up to a wall socket with a fork and tries to stick it in the hole? Do you politely suggest that little billy find another avenue for his ankst? No, you yell STOP. Why? Because you need to stop the situation immediately to prevent little billy from becoming a toaster strudel.

Yelling "stop" is a long way from physically attacking the kid.

Been out in public around kids lately? They have the manors of a pack of hyena's.

Would hitting them solve that problem?

There's a huge difference between swatting your kid on the butt and getting a beating from a cop with a night stick and the fact that you don't understand the difference disturbs me.

Then I'll disturb you some more: I also do not comprehend the difference.

Perhaps you need to try to be smarter than your children. All you're doing is teaching them that if they try other solutions and those solutions don't work then the appropriate recourse is to attack someone physically.

Originally posted by jfj123


Not understanding that sometimes negative re-enforcement can be a good thing is also a sign of a weak mind. What do you do when your child walks up to a wall socket with a fork and tries to stick it in the hole? Do you politely suggest that little billy find another avenue for his ankst? No, you yell STOP. Why? Because you need to stop the situation immediately to prevent little billy from becoming a toaster strudel.

And what, you beat him for it? Is your idea of stopping the situation involve physical abuse? No, you yell STOP! Bravo. So, by your own words, no beating involved

And this obviously works so well. Been out in public around kids lately? They have the manors of a pack of hyena's.

Well yes, I have. I live in a major American city and I find that the ones that behave that way are either being punished, as you describe, or not being punished at all. I'm not suggesting a "go ahead do what you want" attitude. Punishment is essential, I just think it should never be physical.

There's a huge difference between swatting your kid on the butt and getting a beating from a cop with a night stick and the fact that you don't understand the difference disturbs me.

The fact that you can assign justifiable excuses to physical abuse is disturbing to me.

In response to Lellomackin "Take away their freedom, ground them , take TV or games away, take away their books, whatever it is they REALLY want."

It doesn't work. They don't care.

Did you read what I wrote?? Find SOMETHING they care about. Are you saying nothing is more important to a child than fear of physical violence?? Really???

In response to Lellomackin "Don't be so simple minded. Please"

I might suggest the same of you.

Seriously, that's the best you can do? You can't outsmart a four year old and you have to beat them? Don't go out of your way to prove my point.

violence towards a child is wrong, it is loss of control as a parent . Children may be a product of your body, but they never belong to you. It makes me ill to see parents swearing, screaming and hitting children. Pick on someone your own size ....ugg
.

Originally posted by 6EQUJ5
reply to post by badmedia

 

I was hoping you'd follow along with the drug analogy in my head, but I should've been more clear. Much like marijuana is often a gateway drug to harder drugs (ie coc aine, crack, etc), there seems to evidence of "whooping" being a gateway to more severe abuse.

The drug analogy is equally as dumb IMO. Just some crap people made up because it sounds good.

I've smoked weed, and it didn't lead to other drugs. I did do other drugs, like meth for example for a time period. But that wasn't because of Mary, that was because I honestly did not have a clue about meth or how bad it was. I've never done other drugs like heroin, crack and so forth because I knew how bad they were. As soon as I figured out what meth was doing to me, I quit doing it and haven't touched it since.

Gateway drug is just an excuse for people who can't take responsibility for their actions. It was my fault, and my fault alone that I did meth, and I take full responsibility for it. I still to this day still pay for it with some of the side effects years later. I'm just thankful I wizened up before it was too late.

If Mary is a gateway drug, then it is because it is wrongly categorized with all the other drugs, rather than people being made known the truth about it. People are told things about Mary that aren't true, lump it up with harder stuff. Person tries Mary, and as a result thinks all that is said about drugs is false, and that is what can lead to them doing other things. But that was due to a lack of proper education on the topic rather than the drug itself. If I had known that about meth, I'd have never done it. I never really ever heard anything about it, had no idea what it was. That is what lead me to doing it.

I can spank my kids without abusing them. I know the difference and the limits. It's not like I ever want to have to spank my kids or ever do anything to cause them harm on purpose. It hurts my feelings when they have difficulties and pain in their life. But I do it because I love them and it's my job.

The worse thing about being a parent is each and every time you realize how right your parents were, and how wrong you were when you said "I'll never treat my kids like this".

It's like when I was a kid I could rarely get away with things. My mom would know I was lieing or whatever, and I would think she just thought the worse of me(even though she was right, I figured no way she could know that). And yet, it's so obvious when my kids lie at times it's hard not to laugh when I think about it.

Originally posted by ladysharrowandherbarrow
violence towards a child is wrong, it is loss of control as a parent . Children may be a product of your body, but they never belong to you. It makes me ill to see parents swearing, screaming and hitting children. Pick on someone your own size ....ugg
.

I dislike swearing and screaming alot. That stuff makes me ill, and I never do that. But a whooping has it's place.

They may not "Belong" to me, but they "belong" to me more than they do anyone else. So if my authority is not valid, I'd like to know why you think yours is. Eitehr way, belong to me or not it's still my responsibility to make sure they grow up proper, and it has nothing to do with loos of control or any of that other crap.





[edit on 7/27/2009 by badmedia]