You have every right in the world to whoop ya kid's..PLZ start I am sick of all the punk's

So, since I am against physically abusing my kids, can I just call them a piece of @#$% and call it a day??

Originally posted by Ohio_Ron
You're right, I came up with the precentages on the spot, after thinking about every family that I have known through-out the United States and Mexico. This is an unauthorized study by myself of What I have experienced in my life. There is no data available, but this is what I have experienced.

According to this link the projected number of families in the US by the year 2010 will be approximately 114,800,000. We'll be generous and pretend that you personally know about 200 families well enough to comment on their psychological health.

In other words, you are generalizing about 114.8 million families based on your experience with about 200 of them at best.

obviously you didn't geat whooped enough and when you did it wasn't that painful.

when i was a kid, i'd get whooped regularly, spilling water, cutting grass with a pair of scissor etc...sometimes it's so painful id wish i could die already. i would beg my dad for help but he just sat and watched while my cousins would encourage the beating.

out of fear, at the age of 13 i ran away. although i was treated like crap it was better than the physical pain. i am well off and i never looked back at the family i knew. i hate them with a passion til this very day. the sight of her makes me want to throw up. beat your kids people.

Originally posted by BarryZuckercorn

Originally posted by Ohio_Ron

If you took the time to examine a consensus of America's families, you'd find that, probably. 85% of those families will tell you that positive re-enforcement doesn't work more than 30% of the time.

In order for positive reinforcement to work the parent must outsmart the child.

I'm not sure what your source is for the percentages that you gave (I suspect that you just came up with them on the spot), but my rebuttal would be that most of the families in America (or most everywhere else on this planet) are dysfunctional. Do you consult a dysfunctional person when you are trying to decide how to raise a child?

Instilling "respect" (more accurately "fear") in a child through violence of any kind will simply instill in that child the belief that the ultimate recourse to resolve any situation is a violent one. Violence, even spanking, will only lead to more violence.

We are all different some things work in some families but not in others.
Many of you in the no spanking crowd grew up in the city I bet.
For me growing up on the farm my parents had no time for "out smarting"
there kids, too much work to do. Wouldn't have worked anyway.
We were a very independent group and I deserved every spanking I received. Try raising five sons while working from sun up to sun down.

We did things as children many of you would be appalled about today.
Things I would never let my kids do.

Although I was spanked, I rarely need to spank my kids different world today. But it is not wrong to spank your children. You saying that violence leads to more violence is pure bull.

Let me rephrase your violence quote just a little bit.
Violence is the ultimate solution to any problem. Presidents dont seem to mind using violence to solve problems overseas. Why should it bother you.

Abusing your kids is wrong and should be penalized spanking is not abuse.





[edit on 27-7-2009 by TriggerFish]

Very heated topic and very heated debate.

Corporal punishment

Corporal punishment is the deliberate infliction of pain intended to discipline or reform a wrongdoer or change a person's "bad" attitude and/or "bad" behaviour. The term usually refers to methodically striking the offender with an implement, whether in judicial, domestic, or educational settings.

Corporal punishment may be divided into three main types:

* parental or domestic corporal punishment, i.e. the spanking of children within the family;
* school corporal punishment, i.e. of school students by teachers or other school officials;
* judicial corporal punishment, involving the official caning or whipping of convicted offenders (whether adult or juvenile) by order of a court of law.

The corporal punishment of minors within the home is lawful in all 50 of the United States and, according to a 2000 survey, it is widely approved by parents.[1] It has been officially outlawed in 24 countries around the world.[2]

Corporal punishment in school is still legal in some parts of the world, including about half the States of the U.S., but has been outlawed in others, including Canada, Japan, South Africa, New Zealand, and nearly all of Europe except the Czech Republic[3] and France.[4]

Judicial corporal punishment has virtually disappeared from the western world but remains in force in many parts of Africa and Asia.

en.wikipedia.org...

Just wanted to make sure that we are all on the same page as to if you like to refer to it as a "Love Tap" or a "Spanking" or a "Whuppin" as the OP so elegantly put it.

The correct term is Corporal Punishment.

We are a civilized nation and have outlawed the use of corporal punishment as a form of correction in our judicial system.

But parents are still allowed to use it on children who are 5 years old.

We still have a LONNGGG way to go in this world.

No wonder we can not be trusted with disclosure.

We are still beating our young. We are still animals.

reply to post by badmedia


Well, you did move on to meth, from marijuana, so one could argue that you're living proof that there's something to the gateway theory. You were exposed to that lifestyle, to that way of coping. There was probably a wide range of "drug of choice" in your circle of users, and it was only a matter of time before someone convinced you to try something else.

I'm still of the opinion that once you cross that line into "whooping" your child, and you realize diminished returns in future swatting to correct behavior, it'll be likely to escalate, and many studies point to that.

hehe kids these days , what will become of us when we are elderly....

man i got whopped when i was a kid and probbobly wouldent be here if i hadent gotten ,

i still remember the birch branch i had to pick out my self in share ignorance because i dint know better.

well with memmories in mind and a son of my own im happy havent had to resort to that level of authority indoctrination.

so far the best method ive discovered is that when ever i see things getting in the areas of where possible "accidents" can happen
for example when he´s getting ready to biscycle and has no helmet i usualy just mention that

" you know what we´ve said about getting in to accidents that can be avoided by just abit of preperation"

as for the "monkey" in the general store , that was easily avoided by just getting what you realy needed from the store and telling him that we´re only here for the food and candy and such aint food.
the end

now its food he wants to pick and so far ive had to try snails and all sorts of sea food that wouldent had come to mind

lack of food-for-thought often leads to spoiled brats, or not even neccesary spoiled but bored out of their mind by daily rutines that in the long run probobly isnt healthy for you either.

as a last advice if all else has failed ,

go fishing.

its life in a box , kids learn alot of them selfs when in nature and when things dont go their way they usualy look for guidance
and guidance they get when they ask.
simsalabim and theyve adjusted them self to their level in the "herd"

Z

Originally posted by TriggerFish

We are all different some things work in some families but not in others.
Many of you in the no spanking crowd grew up in the city I bet.

Buzzz...wrong.

For me growing up on the farm my parents had no time for "out smarting"
there kids, too much work to do.

No time for being smart, huh? Time for violence though? Guess it's easier.

Wouldn't have worked anyway.

Why, were you too dim to not be persuaded by physical violence? Please explain.

We were a very independent group and I deserved every spanking I received.

So, to this day apparently, this has instilled in you a point of view that you deserved to be beaten.

Try raising five sons while working from sun up to sun down.

Get a hold of yourself. Try twelve, then we can talk.

We did things as children many of you would be appalled about today.
Things I would never let my kids do.

Beat them harder, they'll get through it.

Originally posted by jfj123

But when kids completely disrespect people for no reason other then they are spoiled, self centered little brats, some times a swat is enough to wake their @sses up !

You see, I consider this to be a fault of the parent, if they allow this to occur. I don't think violence against others is an appropriate response for ones own misgivings.

Originally posted by jfj123
Little billy doesn't care if you reduce his internet time to 2 hours instead of 6 per night or reduce his cable tv time from 5 hours to 2 hours...he can just tivo the programs he like

Little billy doesn't need a computer in his room full stop, nor his own tv. We have a hard enough time communicating face to face without further barriers against social interaction.
Much better to have a communal zone where browsing/viewing occurs.

Originally posted by jfj123Really? Then why are there so many kids being raised so poorly? All I'm saying is that a good butt swat is appropriate AT TIMES. I'm not suggesting beating little billy with a 2" x 4".

I would say kids are being raised poorly due to several factors including socio-economic situation (at both ends of the spectrum...being deprived or lavished can manifest negatively), lack of parenting skills, lack of appropriate discipline etc.

I have to say though, at least here in New Zealand, the majority of kids are alright, give up seats on buses and such. We like to focus on the negative which is why it seems that there are so any 'bad eggs'.

Attitudes are changing however. It appears that even though we are having a referendum to repeal the (evocatively-named by opponents) "Anti-Smacking Law" it will be non-binding and the governement doesn't support a change (@ $9m nz) because they see merit in the Law.

I must admit that I do too.

[edit on 27-7-2009 by aorAki]

It drives me crazy when I see outta control children. I have raised a 20yr old on my own and proud to say he is doing good so far. I am on my second marriage and am raising hers cause the ex is a slug. & years ago the youngest boy was a complete temper tantrum ball of frustration. The first time I met him he was told to go and clean his room (at 7yrs old then). well he fell to the floor and screamed back, fighting the entire thought. I did all I could do to keep myself from bursting out laughing. and said well this will be fun. I never did have to ever spank him once, I simply installed fear through respect. I did put him to the floor once cause he thought he was man enough to disrespect me, that was all that took. we have a good arrangement. I guess my advice here to anyone is Give a crap.. don't just think it is someone else's responsibility. Stay involved in their lives till you know they can ride the bike on their own. Know their friends and where they are. You are the parent. Be one.

Originally posted by 6EQUJ5
reply to post by badmedia

 

Well, you did move on to meth, from marijuana, so one could argue that you're living proof that there's something to the gateway theory. You were exposed to that lifestyle, to that way of coping. There was probably a wide range of "drug of choice" in your circle of users, and it was only a matter of time before someone convinced you to try something else.

the gateway theory is a theory , not fact

if it was a valid fact then all who biscycle will end up driving cars and later on in life get a trukking licence and at some point probobly start selling rigs
because they need money for new trucks.


if the gateway theory was valid then all toilets in the world would be full of teenagers selling their behinds for a measly pice of crack.

but that aint the case because in real life people who want to experiment experiment and weak people let other people rule over them.
it has nothing to do with with a fictive value scale of the potentcy of the drugs avilable, legal or not.

So, I will ask this question, and most likely none of the "pro-spanking" group will reply, which will be telling.

My dog keeps pissing on the furniture, is it okay to beat my dog? Should I hit her with my open hand or whip it with my belt?

Is it okay to slap my wife when she says something I think is insolent or should I just spank her behind?

Can i leave a welt on my child from a beating, or should I use methods that don't leave a mark and call the attention of authorities?

If I don't have a belt, does psychological abuse have similar benefits??


Just looking for some guidance.

Every kid is different and reacts differently. Some go bad with parents who whoopem some go bad when they don't. There is no one way. Which ever way you see your kid react in an appropriate and positive manner is the right way!

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Me and my daughter (she's six), we're best of friends. When I become unhappy with her, I threaten her with tickles. She stops her behavior and chooses differently.

I feel there is no need to "whoop" a child of any age, and won't be if you behave towards them as you would have others behave towards you.

We hug a lot, and she asks my advice - which I give, but let her know that she must weigh what she does against the probable consequences and make up her own mind.

I have never had cause to "whoop" her.

And in fact, I think "whooping" is a sign of a lazy parent.

lol

Just wait you have no idea what's coming your way. My sister thought the exact same thing lol.

Her kid eventually had to start being whooped because she decided that weighing the evidence meant "oh that is a bully" and she would beat the heck out of them. Then near her teenage years decided she could beat on her parents because it was the right thing to do because they disagreed with her decisions.

lol
Feel sorry you ya man because she/he will go there eventually and will make a habbit out of it until you use force for force.

Originally posted by TriggerFish
We are all different some things work in some families but not in others.

I'd say that violence doesn't "work" for anyone.

Many of you in the no spanking crowd grew up in the city I bet.
For me growing up on the farm my parents had no time for "out smarting"
there kids, too much work to do.

Violence as a repercussion may tend to produce useful and obedient farm laborers (serfs, slaves, etc), but it does not tend to produce psychologically healthy, happy and well adjusted adult humans.

Of course, our currently sick culture doesn't actually want healthy, happy and well adjusted adults. Our culture wants people who are easy to control through fear, which is the sort of mindset that spanking helps to create.

Kids learn through example, and when you hit them for doing the "wrong" thing you are teaching them to use violence as a means of solving any problem that does not present an easy and immediate solution. Rather than teaching them to think and experiment while respecting others you are teaching them violence and you're making them dumber.

Wouldn't have worked anyway.

How do you know that?

You saying that violence leads to more violence is pure bull.

Again, I would suggest that you read up on human psychology a little bit before making statements like that.

Let me rephrase your violence quote just a little bit.
Violence is the ultimate solution to any problem. Presidents dont seem to mind using violence to solve problems overseas. Why should it bother you.

No, violence is seen in our culture as the ultimate solution, and our culture is wrong. Presidents, Prime Ministers, dictators and popes are almost always people who crave power and tend to be extremely corrupt. Why would I or anyone else want to use them as an example for our own behavior?

And it bothers me because I live in a culture overrun by people who seem to think that it's okay to resort to violence, that it's a good thing that cops club down protesters, that it's good to lock people in cages rather than try to cure them, that bombing the living crap out of brown people is a fantastic way to maintain our hegemony and therefore our way of life at the expense of others, that it's fine to spend around 75% of my tax dollars doing all of the above and worse, and that anyone who questions the ridiculous status quo is some kind of deviant and needs to be put down, violently.

The spanking will mean little, if the child has no respect for you in the first place.
A beating from their friends would mean more to them, as kids often respect their friends more these days. This isn't good.
It has to be a combination of the 2. Love, and the sparing use of punishment.
In most cases, If a child does not respond to punishment, it is your own fault for not starting with love earlier.

Of this I am 100% certain.

reply to post by zerbot565


You're understanding of this is seriously lacking.

Gateway=Door

You start doing weed, you have opened a door to others that are doing the same thing.
Meaning, you are going to hang out with people smoking weed.

Some in that crowd will be doing more than that thing(i.e. something harder). You will be exposed to those other things. There is now a greater possibility that you will go to that next step. If you take the next step....you go through the next door.

In that next room people, in all probability, will be doing more powerful things, etc, etc.


Doesn't mean you WILL do it, just a chance that some will, and believe me some will.

reply to post by zerbot565


This is getting off topic, but riding a bike and driving a car do not result in euphoric types of feelings from the brain, except for maybe Lance Armstrong and Jeff Gordon types, that one gets from many drugs, so you're missing a key component in your "gateways". There have been many studies concerning the brain chemistry and violence, violence in video games and real life violence, take a look for yourself here richarddawkins.net...

Here again there seems to be a deep rooted brain chemistry thing going on, so again many of your examples lack that biochemical component, so in my opinion the gateway analogy is valid.

Originally posted by lellomackin
My dog keeps pissing on the furniture, is it okay to beat my dog? Should I hit her with my open hand or whip it with my belt?

Is it okay to slap my wife when she says something I think is insolent or should I just spank her behind?

Can i leave a welt on my child from a beating, or should I use methods that don't leave a mark and call the attention of authorities?

If I don't have a belt, does psychological abuse have similar benefits??

Y'know, you just said almost exactly what I was thinking.

When you're raising a dog you have to be firm with it, yes. But you don't beat it, or it will likely turn vicious and bite someone. While as humans we are more complex than dogs, we are still animals, and our brains function along similar lines. So why is it a bad idea to hit a dog while training it, but a good idea to hit a human being?

[edit on 27/7/2009 by BarryZuckercorn]

reply to post by lellomackin


dog pissing on your territory is a lack of respect , the dog is alpha you are second.

but at the same time its your fault the dog pisses inside , wheter you intentionly do it or not.

mabey you should walk your dog more often ?,

hitting the pooch dosent help.


was your wife joking or was she intentionaly pissing you off ,

if she was joking then mabye she needs a spank after bedtime or if she was pissing you off mabye you should try talking to her to see
where the where the door creeks..

as for beating a child without leaving marks i guess sticking with masturbation seams like a good idea.


,

freud would have said that a man who lives with thoughts like that clearly has lost his mojo.

the dog pissing inside is a clear warning you are not on top of your game ,
could very well be if the wife brought home the dog she was not getting the love she needed or she just thought you needed the workout of
walking the dog ,
with the dog still pissing inside the "dog gift/workout theory" faild and thats probbobly why shes bored with you and making remarks.

resulting to physical violence towards kids just beacuse the love life has gone out the window just shows even more that you werent ready for parenting nor marrige.