Overpopulation Makes No Sense!

The entire population of the planet could be put into a rectangle 6 miles wide and 120 miles long. It isn't the people, it's the standard of living. I say take away shoes and transportation and see what happens. People will walk gently on this planet, work smaller gardens or farms, and not pollute. Our standard of living is so high we demand incredible amounts of land to make it happen. If we were back to an agricultural economy, small farms, people would have more leisure time and enjoy life. Farmers do not work long hours year 'round like you do. They are busy during planting, and busy during harvesting. We did this to ourselves when we became industrialized.

Originally posted by mmiichael

The Romans didn't panic, Neanderthal man didn't panic, the dinosaurs didn't panic. All gone.

A century ago when the population was a fraction of what it is today, there was always more unexplored and unsettled new territory where people could move to. Fossil fuels and fresh water sources were virtually untapped. Pollution was only a problem in industrial centres.

All changed as the world stayed the same size but the number of people and demands on it expanded exponentially. Things that once seemed infinite now have reached their limits.

Going to other planets works in Science Fiction. Despite our probing technologies we can barely find planets that just might be able to support our carbon-based life form withing the very narrow range of temperatures and gravity we can function in.

If we find one and given the upper limit of light speed travel it could take thousands of years to reach a potentially inhabitable planet and we don't know if there are things there that might make it impossible for us to live on them.

We have a pretty narrow range of variables we can operate in. There have been events in Earth's history that have wiped out thriving life forms that were there for millions of years.

We are discovering how science can change so many things. But believing some new scientific discovery will be able to change everything somehow is like believing in magic.


Mike

1:

A: The Romans are still there, they are called Italians today
B: Neanderthal man got it's rear end kicked by us, a strong testament to our survivability
C: Dinosaurs had a brain the size of a pea... they couldn't panic, they too are however still around, you will hear them chirping if you listen closely

2: There are still many places to move to, artificial Islands become more viable daily, the entire Antarctic and Greenland is empty. We have not even remotely tapped into the potential of vertical farms, underground construction or even Earth friendly living, the first Mile high structure for living is currently under construction as we speak, nano tech makes skyscrapers that make the wtc look small utterly plausible and that doesn't require any extra land to be covered... viable living space within the earth is as much as 2-3 miles on plateaus and equally as high building upward, a massive increase in population requires given modern engineering... no more land space than we use today

as for fossil fuels... nuclear can power our homes and public transportation, the only reason we still use them is corporate monopolies, when they are gone things will change but other than human greed there will be no actual issue

3: NO, going to other planets works in rl, we have people in space right now, we have flown to other planets... people in London used to complain of sea monsters prior to the new world, they were doomed too, amazing however what the industrial revolution and some nice sailing ships accomplished

travel to other worlds isn't sci fi, it's just a matter of time

4: other life forms didn't have viable methods of deflecting asteroids...

5: MAGIC IS SIMPLY SCIENCE WE DON'T UNDERSTAND



[edit on 1-6-2009 by mopusvindictus]

reply to post by OhZone


so I have to ask...

If it's all that bad... why do I enjoy such a great life every day?

seriously, your glass is so half empty

Here is the REAL

DOOM IS A PREDICTION, right now I have plenty of water and I live in a desert, I have tons of food even in a crappy economy atm and i'm happy and healthy

the impetus of PROOF of coming doom is on those who predict it... because aside from a handful of spots on Earth, most of us are doing just fine and lets face it sometimes things will suck no matter how many of us there are

Lets not forget

when our population was smallest, our life expectancy was 26 not 76

Kind of hard for me to look past that fact when people tell me how bad it all is, I go visit the church of the trinity in NYC and remind myself every grave there when the city was founded has a life span under 40

It's the BEST it's ever been my friend...

also i'd add

it just makes it harder to find solutions when you focus on problems not answers my friend

me, i'm very successful in RL... I don't know the word CAN'T, and honestly don't appreciate any one trying to teach it to me.

reply to post by bobbylove321


Yea I pretty much agree. It's all for fear control. Overpopulation is impossible. People forget that we have up AND down to go into. Why, there's a town in Scotland that my sister told me about that was built underground and still goes on. There's no 2d thinking here. 3d. We have hundreds of millions of occupation spaces in orbit, probably a billion. Same with under. Please calm down and quite worrying. We will never run out of space. The second we do, necessity, our dear mother of invention, will force us into space. Most species are having their genes recorded by us too, so when we extinct one, spawn more for other planets.

We never had a problem and never will.

Originally posted by bobbylove321
reply to post by donutviper

 

It doesn't matter if people are sick and tired of violence. Violence is bred into people via their environments most of the time, so who's to blame?

The typical person who commits a crime is poverty stricken and raised in bad neighborhoods. It's not the peoples' fault. It's the people monopolizing everything that are causing this violence you speak of.

Overpopulation has nothing to do with violence, and respecting peoples' individual spaces. Everyone has the right to live, and NO ONE has the right to reduce the population just because they want to have their "space".

This mindset IS brainwashing that has been done throughout peoples' lives via the few controlling everything.

I think you missed my point Bobbylove. Go back to page 5. I was making an observation. I wanted you to notice how many normal people that have nothing to do with TPTB...disagree with you. I wanted you to see that if it's this hard to try to talk some sense into normal people...imagine how hard it's going to be when it comes to those bad people in the upper echelon. It can't be done. I was also speculating when I said "maybe violence, maybe they want their space". I have no idea how or why those people have that mindset. Now that you know you can't change anybodies mindset...what do you propose we do?

reply to post by Jess_Undefined


Did that for 6 months in the philippines and was not that much "fun" lol prefer to have a simple life but not that simple.

Whether the world is truly overpopulated or not can be debated for another 50-100 years but the fact of the matter is that the 'powers that be' have believed and still believe the world is overpopulated and therefore there has and will continue to be a deliberate depopulation agenda.

Either we continue searching for truth, finding solutions and standing up for what we believe in or we lay down and become the next victims.

reply to post by Spooky Fox Mulder


Africa has a big starvation issue because that's how it's made to happen.

The people who are controlling the food and water are VERY racist. I suggest you also go research the real agenda behind AIDS.

They don't like minorities such as the black or Hispanic population, and the only reason Obama is president is to keep the mass minorities on a "trust" level, so that they won't revolt. This is so you won't hear black people or spanish people say, "Oh this is unfair, it's because I'm black/spanish."

IF the Elite ACTUALLY shared the technology they're hiding, or made food fair for everyone to have access to, then Africa would not be having ANY starvation problems.

You think the Elite is not racist. This is the flaw in your argument.

OP raises some good points. However, they are overly simplistic.

The "war lords" creating starvation and brutal violence are controlled by the European royal families. Before European influence, African tribes lived under a more egalitarian society. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be so thrilled about the available "food" supply. A great majority of it is unsuitable for regular consumption.

Instead of just looking at just the area of available land, look at other things such as crop cultivation, deforestation, mining, waste disposal and access to clean water. You can only have but so many people living close to oceans, rivers, etc. Mining has already lead to land erosion, which will increase now that China and India have increased their demand for raw metals. Businesses are failing because of unmet demand for raw metals.

And look at the distribution of land with extreme climates. Areas with extremely cold, extremely hot, extremely dry and extremely humid climates are less populated for a reason.

I agree 100% that there is no such thing as "not enough money." Many small cultures still practice bartering, and the cost of living in India is only 2% of that of the US. Guess what happens to the money that Bill and Melinda give out to charities -- they are deposited in Swiss bank accounts, and Bill and Melinda are given control of whatever companies they buy up. "Funds" and "foundations" are nothing more than a way to avoid paying taxes. And of course the money to pay Bill and Melinda come off the backs of people who live from paycheck to paycheck.

reply to post by OhZone


I wish you could sit down with some of the top scientists today and discuss your underestimating of technology.

Last year, GM as well as many other car manufacturers almost went bankrupt (some did in fact), but now a year later they are MASS producing electric cars that can go 100 mpg. Do you think that they JUST recently researched electric technology for cars?

They've had the technology for over 20 years, but didn't want to change until they were forced to.

The CIA first had the internet 20-30 years BEFORE the average person had access to it. Do you think the government and black projects are on the SAME level in technology as the average person in society? You got to be kidding.

You don't think colonizing other planets is possible? Then I'm assuming you are a 75 year old man who's too conservative to believe in new technology.

In just 10 years the internet has BOOMED to the point where we can get news via seconds (twitter). NO ONE would have thought that was possible even 5 years ago.

So STOP limiting yourself.

And here's a little secret for you:

One of my uncle's friends works in NASA and they have ALREADY colonized the moon. They did it 25 years ago.

So stop judging things you don't know.

This video is important to watch and understand with relation to population growth and why overpopulation is going to be an inevitable reality in the future. Even if it isn't such a problem right now.

The Most IMPORTANT Video You'll Ever See (part 1 of 8)


World population is talked about in part 2 of this series. You can see part 2 here..



Follow the links to the other parts.

-ChriS

[edit on 1-6-2009 by BlasteR]

reply to post by Jim Scott


you cant take away shoes, what if we stand on glass or dog's dodoo Did you think of that ? lol i say bring back the shoes with the orange basketball on the tongue, then we would all look comfortable and confident for whats to come

I thought i'd throw this in


'Earth 2100': the Final Century of Civilization


Interesting little article about over populaton and resource crisis.

Originally posted by bobbylove321

The CIA first had the internet 20-30 years BEFORE the average person had access to it. Do you think the government and black projects are on the SAME level in technology as the average person in society? You got to be kidding.

You don't think colonizing other planets is possible? Then I'm assuming you are a 75 year old man who's too conservative to believe in new technology.

In just 10 years the internet has BOOMED to the point where we can get news via seconds (twitter). NO ONE would have thought that was possible even 5 years ago.

So STOP limiting yourself.

And here's a little secret for you:

One of my uncle's friends works in NASA and they have ALREADY colonized the moon. They did it 25 years ago.

So stop judging things you don't know.

I'm going to disagree with almost everything said here.

If you had the Internet in the 1970s what would you do with it? Send text messages to the CIA? With no significant content and no browsers it was like sending telegrams back and forth.

You need widespread usage of technologies and commercial content not just patents.

Experimental television was going on in the 1920s. Subscribers in New York were watching baseball games on their home TV sets in 1939. The demand, affordability, mass production, and vitally programming didn't come until after WWII.

Colour photography, inexpensive printing, telephone, movie cameras, a dozen other technologies were around in the 19th Century but only became widely disseminated into the 20th when demand reached a critical mass.

NASA colonies on the Moon? Ask your uncle to ask his friend for more details. Find out if they have a Moon-wide Web.

A few people around here would be interested.


Mike


[edit on 1-6-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael


I don't think you get my point.

The government has technology way beyond our understanding.

This is because they think that humans are not "ready" for this type of technology, so simply they don't care about the general population.

And when I say government I'm talking about the people in the government that actually make the rules, not the president or his cabinet.

They already have hundreds of military installations beneath the ground (this is FACT), and this is where 90% of our tax money is going to. The tax money goes to creating and supporting NEW black projects that the public would never support to begin with.

Colonizing other planets is very easy, and in fact it already has been done. Such an example is the moon, but I'm not going to go into more detail because people are not ready for that type of info.

seems like the same old post about over population, like i said with the last guy, leadership by example. take you and your family and get with the depopulation project going. cause it is always so easy to say everyone else should die, but be a man, take the step for humanity and do it christ quit talking about how over population is killling the world and be a martyr, set the standard, the presedence with yourself! does that scare you? if so shut up about it already! i am so tired of hearing about how we have too many human beings on the planet. like bill hicks said. if you took all the money that we spend on killing everyone through out the world. you could put that money into planting food, building homes, and maybe once take a step above ignorance.

food for thought, if we would of put the 12 trillion dollars on the stimulus package to the american people, instead of the banks, that would of given each american around 1.7 million dollars and can you imagine the amount of building and innovation that would have occured, we wouldnt be talking about population and how low lifes of this world need to die. but we gave the money to the banks and now we are talking about how to eliminate debt people.

heres an idea. just a idea, get rid of all the fat bankers cause there money is grown out of thin air and let one of them debters, that you were thinking about killing, put him or here into the presidency of the corporation of the united states and i bet things would change?

i would put a hundred dollar bill wager that the american people would finally see some real, change.

reply to post by Mindmelding


You say there aren't too many people - how many people is too many? Or is it never? So we just keep going in this direction without ever thinking about consequences?

You agree that people are starving - but you blame it on elites etc. If people are living in fertile and arable land area's - they aren't likely to starve. Put so many people on the planet that people are forced into crappy area's and people will start starving without much encouragement.

You are not addressing any real issue about population - your head in the sand trick simply doesn't work, because reality can still clearly see and kick your ass.

Originally posted by bobbylove321

The government has technology way beyond our understanding.

This is because they think that humans are not "ready" for this type of technology, so simply they don't care about the general population.

And when I say government I'm talking about the people in the government that actually make the rules, not the president or his cabinet.

They already have hundreds of military installations beneath the ground (this is FACT), and this is where 90% of our tax money is going to. The tax money goes to creating and supporting NEW black projects that the public would never support to begin with.

Colonizing other planets is very easy, and in fact it already has been done. Such an example is the moon, but I'm not going to go into more detail because people are not ready for that type of info.

I'm going to try approaching this diplomatically. I agree the US and probably other governments or agencies do have advanced technologies at various stages of development and refinement. Some ready to go or already in use.

20 odd years ago I worked on a project for an innovative high tech research firm here in Canada and got to know a lot of people. Private contractors here and in the US as well as government types. My familiarity is more than website and hearsay.

There was a constant struggle to find funding for projects, and that was often the case even with the US govt. The private sector and academic community interfaced with high level government development. Tens of thousands of people with specialized expertise move in and out doing contract work for the government. They are a tight community and share information even when it's supposed to be confidential.

I mention this to inform you that speaking with some knowledge the things you allude to are by and large pure fantasies.

As I have said elsewhere, there is no secret lab in Area 51 extracting hyperdrives for space travel extracted from landed alien crafts. There are no massive rays that knock out armies at great distances. It is still enormously eexpensive and rsky to leave the earth's atmosphere and there is no way to do it without the whole world knowing any more.

The US still fights low tech conventional warfare but would love to have these science fictional advantages to save the lives of soldiers and cream their opponents.
It just isn't there any more than the 25 year old colonies on the moon.

What is possible in big budget Hollywood CGI movies is still mostly in the realm of imagination. Because you see something on Youtube and discussed on some website does not make it real.

Much more I cannot say.


Mike



[edit on 2-6-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by Mindmelding
reply to post by Amagnon

 

I wish you were right, but you're not. There are people out there who are proactive in population reduction through violence. This is one of the cornerstones of elitist conspiracies, and it's genesis is ponerology, understood as the influence of psychopaths on society (which goes far beyond serial killings).

People starve not so much because of the planet but more because of missmanagement of resources by our corrupt hierarchy based psychopathically infiltrated governmental systems. Africa starves because of financial debt. Aid from rich countries is syphoned off by a corrupt local political class, which is paid off by people close to the IMF to run the countries into the ground, and said aid ends up in swiss banks. They call it "swiss bank socialism" over there (quote is from a TED talk). Starvation and genocide in africa is provoked by the elites to secure resources for their industry much more than it is provoked by overpopulation.

Unless we consider our human failing to deal with our own ponerology a sign that we can't do better than this and deserve what is coming to us. Then perhaps a cogent argument for overpopulation could be made. As for me, I can see solutions for all the worlds problems, so I don't consider there to be too many people, only a small minority of psychos in the way of what has to be done (energy freedom through new and open source technology and agricultural renaissance).

Look - I am not disagreeing that theres a program to actively kill people off. It is being done - no doubt, and I made the POINT that we have plenty of food, shelter and resources to go around.

The POINT you seem to be missing is that we could live on a PRISTINE planet - sharing vast resources among not many people. With no problems of pollution - because we just wouldn't have that much effect - even if we went crazy for energy.

At SOME point we will have to pick a target for the global population - we can't just kick back and expect it to take care of itself. Doing that means making a poor standard of living for everyone and letting people starve to death.

That's stupid and immoral.

How many people do we need? Enough to ensure survival - enough to maintain a high level of industry, science and technology - and enough service providers to keep everything going.

Have a look at the global population - the percentage of people who are contributing to industry, science or technology is very low.

We have billions of people just scratching a living - whats the point of that? So we can say - hey if we had proper birth control and family planning, look at all the people who wouldn't have a #ty pointless life?

Just let the population decline enough and those people will have a vital role in civilization. If we have an efficient organizational strategy people can live on their small farm - grow some food, have a few chickens and a cow - and work in a useful capacity to the rest of society as well. All services will still be needed, from gardeners and janitors, mechanics and plumbers to engineers and doctors.

You just won't have agricultural subsistence lifestyles - agricultural work is likely to be reasonably paid - because people will have other options.

Who benefits from having 3 or 4 billion people just scratching out a living?

Are they jumping with joy over their lifestyle? Probably not - if you manage the population downwards, then everyone gets more options for their life.

Originally posted by Mindmelding
reply to post by andre18

 

Oh, we know the bloodlines and we even know the , it's not like it's a total mystery. But we have to stop short of the actual people behind the curtain, because there are several candidates, and nobody wants a witchhunt.

You know the bloodlines and even know the social circle but don't know who they are???? WTH is wrong with you. How do you know there are several candidates, What evidence do you have to make that kind of claim? You're just making stuff up as you go along. You've got no evidence at all to back your bloodline, social circle or elitist claims and yet you still expect me to believe this horribly badly written fiction story because it sounds truthful to you because you're gullible enough to believe it.

Here's some truth for ya - if this was a reality i'd be hearing about it on the news. Big shock i know. As you said the evidence is out there - but no, no information about it in the media, nothing. FACT - IF THIS WAS A SERIOUS ISSUE IT WOULD BE TALKED ABOUT IN A SERIOUS MANNER.

Does this help you more? It is from the above group that the overpopulation meme is funded and widely disseminated. Any scientist or other idea disseminator with a "Sir" in front of his name, for example, should not be trusted.

OMG!!!!!!! this is fantastic. I couldn't have made a more ridiculous remark if i wanted to. "Any scientist .... with a "Sir" in front of his name.....should not be trusted." LMFAO

Now what i don't understand is why you can't see how illogical that sounds to any rational person. Don't trust scientists if they have a Sir in front of their name - that's got to be the most paranoid i've ever heard someone come across as. Don't you re-read what you type and think over what you're saying??? at all??? If he's got a Sir in his name he's out to get you!!!

OK, the world you live in is called fiction, the world i live in is called REALITY!!!!!!