Overpopulation Makes No Sense!

There are lots of good reasons for population control.

The problem (or one problem) is this:
The overpopulation problem was pushed hard by Malthus around 1800.
His suggested handlings were barbaric.
Others took his lead and invented eugenics.
Eugenics was then used as the justification for the nazi killing factories of the 1930's.
Some people think that is no way to live. As has been pointed out on this thread, do you want to be the one to sacrifice your life or family for the "good of the planet"?

If this planet could quiet down enough to invest its extra resources in solving the problem of expansion in a rational and humane way, we would probably have many solutions an a few months. The problem is that the planet is under serious pressure from criminal elements that definitely do not have our best interests in mind. They keep the place in constant foment and cause the waste of huge sums on unnecessary internal violence.

That's the first logical target. If we can handle that we have a chance.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Yep, I agree - if the money spent on the War Machine (pun intended), we might see some baffling changes. Kind of a long shot though, for now.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
So IS there ANY real reason to believe we can't on conventional technology simply HOP all the way out even if light speed travel is never possible

answer is no

There is absolutely no reason to conclude that space is empty... just from our perspective, just like the Ocean seemed endless once...

When we encounter a definitive void as we reach further into space... PLEASE, let me know

Until then, we claim we are running out of resources when ... a single asteroid can be worth 17 Trillion in Platinum RIGHT NOW

BE BRAVE, there is a Universe available

and no PROOF any one is there to claim it but us to date

Mining in space has always been a thought. I can't guess how much it costs to mine platinum or even if we'll need it at that cost. Private industry will determine the viability.

As far as your suggestion to travel to other planets for colonization.
It took decades of searching the far reaches of space to find planets and now they are looking for signs of ones that are potentially habitable.

So we’re almost certainly talking planets that if we find them could take millenia to reach.

And we're not just looking for any planet with an approximate size. We can live on Earth due to the delicate range of temperature, has an atmosphere with an oxygen mixture and protection, water moisture, as well as an ecosystem of plants, animals, micro-organisms, etc.

Considering that we have trouble on this very planet living on the polar extremes, you're demanding a very specific criteria. Do the probability calculations tell us how many potential planets we could possibly step foot on, how many have something resembling our narrow tolerance range temperature and habitable environment without toxic atmospheres, but oxygen, water, and compatible life form systems?

We would have to locate candidates. Travel at least closer to them to determine their viability. Set up progressive step fuel stations every few light years or so. Then land and determine if humans live could live there.

Based on your assumptions there are planets out there that approximate our basic survival requirements who do you think will even initiate the preliminary steps?

And our motivation is increasing population and dwindling resources. Will the US or some world government fund a program that might take tens of thousands of years, if ever, to even isolate a habitable planet and travel to it.

We can start fixing Planet Earth today. A compatible Planet X, might take thousands of years to find, visit, and move to. If we can ever find it.

Where do you think we should start?

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
So IS there ANY real reason to believe we can't on conventional technology simply HOP all the way out even if light speed travel is never possible

answer is no

There is absolutely no reason to conclude that space is empty... just from our perspective, just like the Ocean seemed endless once...

When we encounter a definitive void as we reach further into space... PLEASE, let me know

Until then, we claim we are running out of resources when ... a single asteroid can be worth 17 Trillion in Platinum RIGHT NOW

BE BRAVE, there is a Universe available

and no PROOF any one is there to claim it but us to date

Mining in space has always been a thought. I can't guess how much it costs to mine platinum or even if we'll need it at that price.

As far as your suggestion to travel to other planets for colonization.
It took decades of searching the far reaches of space to find any planets and now they are looking for signs of ones that are potentially habitable.

So we’re almost certainly talking planets that if we find them could take millenia to reach.

And we're not just looking for any planet with an approximate size. We can live on Earth due to the delicate range of temperature, an atmosphere with an oxygen mixture harmful ray protection, water moisture, as well as an ecosystem of plants, animals, micro-organisms, etc.

Considering that we have trouble on this very planet living on the polar extremes, you're demanding a very specific criteria.

Do the probability calculations tell us how many potential planets we could possibly step foot on, how many have something resembling our narrow tolerance range temperature and habitable environment without toxic atmospheres, but sufficient oxygen, water, and compatible life form ecosystems?

We would have to locate candidates. Travel closer to them to determine their viability. Set up progressive step fuel stations every few light years or so. Then land and determine if humans live could live there.

Based on your assumptions there are planets out there that approximate our basic survival requirements who do you think will even initiate the preliminary steps?

Will the US or some world government use tax dollars to fund a program that might take tens of thousands of years, if ever, to even isolate a habitable planet and travel to it. If dwindling space, insufficient food and resources, and too much population are the concerns - it's really a longshot.

But we can start fixing Planet Earth today. A compatible Planet X, might take thousands of years to find, visit, and move to. If we can ever find it.

Where do you think we should start first?


[edit on 2-6-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by Mindmelding
reply to post by andre18

 

You're clearly an idiot so I will conclude our interchange here.

Yep for sure I'm the idiot here because i don't believe in boogeyman scientists. LMFAO!

You fail to grasp even the simplest and most obvious of conspiracy theory when spoonfed to you

Excuse me for being skeptical

You believe the 9 o'clock news and, taken this into consideration, we will never reach agreement on conspiracy theory.

Wait wait wait, hold on a second. I need to take this in slowly.......
Are you saying all tv news is all a lie? LMFAO AGAIN!!!!

Gona start knocken some sense in to ya - bang bang. (education time)
The news you watch is made up of reports from around the world. Different reporters from different countries go to various places and report the news of what's happening. And then...(don't hold your breath) we have multiple countries telling the same story about an event. Magic .....yeah i know.

America, Australia, England, Canada etc, these countries are not run by dictatorships but democracies. The information around the world is free, real and true. This is not Communist China. Get that through your head.

If you ever take the blinders off then maybe we can talk about these issues, but while you're just in denial it's pointless.

Sigh yes i'm the one with the blinders on, i'm the one that wont admit the world is run by comic book villains.......... damn i'm so in denial it's just amazing.

I've spoken to many people in all social circles and all of them accept elitist manipulation in principle, only the dumbest, most ignorant and perhaps a few biased people do not.

And what are these social circles - more conspiracy social circles ....
That doesn't help your case at all. And you know what - everyone that i know ( you know, the kind of people that pass 3rd grade - yeah them) they don't believe in conspiracies because they know better then to believe in half witted crap like "don't trust scientists with a sir in their name" They're out to get you!!!!!!!!

The people i socialize with know more then most people here on ats by the very fact that they don't believe the bull you guys do. Grow up.

Go learn some history, as you clearly have no idea what civilization is and where it came from.

What the hell are you taking about now, what civilization is? what does that even mean? ahh you guys are fun. Go earn some history? ahhhhhh what? i'm not the one that thinks the rockefellers are out to get me......lol

We're done.

I guess...... well what can i say but OWNED!!!!!! ( it's good fun being an intelligent thinker)

[edit on 3-6-2009 by andre18]

reply to post by andre18


There is a difference between being skeptical and dismissive. You're not considering the ideas or even following the history. You're ignorant and base your views on what you're told and what is reinforced through peer pressure. You're totally off base and do not know what you are talking about.

Some people are thinkers, others are just repeaters. If you have autocriticism capacity, something I doubt, I'll let you think about what you think and why you do it, and categorise yourself accordingly.

The wealth distribution on this planet by itself proves my points about elitisim.

And kindly stop with the "LMFAO", this is not irc and it makes you look like an imbecile as you use it supposedly add weight to your arguments. These topics, overpopulation and genocide, are not "LMFAO" moments.

I'll give you one last chance to come up with a better structure, even if you don't want to agree with me I'm fine with it as long as there is some actual information and a well thought out post, and, failing this, I will have to ignore you as quite frankly you're slowing me down.

Sorry to be arrogant like this but I don't know another way to say what I just said without coming off as conceited. Yet I still have to say it.

reply to post by Mindmelding


How about you explain why something this real isn't being talking about in the media, by intellectuals etc ? If it was real, if it was happening in the real world - reality would be talking about it. But no, instead what you've got is chat rooms that discuss this as if it were fact instead of fiction.

reply to post by andre18


I don't think you read or watch the news much guy. This IS talked about EVERYWHERE!

It's in the mainstream news ALL the time as well. You just never see it.

If you think we live in a fair world, then you are living in a fantasy land. Ron Paul talks about this as well as MANY more high figured people do so too.

The Elite group exists, and they run EVERYTHING.

I'm pretty sure you are either acting dumb, or working for them. No other reason.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by bobbylove321]

[edit on 3-6-2009 by bobbylove321]

reply to post by bobbylove321


Sadly, in this flouride laden world, some people are actually victims of the elitist manipulations to the point their thought processes are atrophiated and they can't comprehend the subtle reality. They have a reactive thought process that bounces off external stimulus. They are chemically dumbed down and neurologically damaged, both by the medical system through vaccinations and psychotropic drugs but also through the food and water systems.

So yes, there is a distinct possibility that he is not acting, that he simply dosen't get it.

If this is the case, Andre18, may I suggest you think about detoxing your body, repairing some of the damange done by nazi population sedation systems which are deployed, so that you gain some clarity of thought. If you find yourself walking around with what is commonly described as "brain fog" and have difficulty remembering, even in the short term, difficulty reading large texts and comprehending big ideas, difficulty understanding subtle jokes or reading inbetween the lines, you could be a victim of the current status quo.

Some of us are more resistant than others, and to be honest I had to detox myself because I had several of the symptoms I wrote about above. The USA is worse in this regard than Europe, it seems the elite has been more active in population intoxication there, perhaps to facilitate what is currently happening with the banking crisis. Remember that most of them are in Europe, they try to keep europe a bit more socially stable than other regions, for their own ease of movement.

Drink clean water, eat organic food and avoid factory farmed animal meat. Avoid flouride and aspartame. Avoid supermarket higiene products. In 6 months you will feel you're a different person and your view of the world will change.

Unless you're an elitist shill of course, in which case carry on up the jungle I guess.

Originally posted by Jim Scott
The entire population of the planet could be put into a rectangle 6 miles wide and 120 miles long. It isn't the people, it's the standard of living. I say take away shoes and transportation and see what happens. People will walk gently on this planet, work smaller gardens or farms, and not pollute. Our standard of living is so high we demand incredible amounts of land to make it happen. If we were back to an agricultural economy, small farms, people would have more leisure time and enjoy life. Farmers do not work long hours year 'round like you do. They are busy during planting, and busy during harvesting. We did this to ourselves when we became industrialized.

I totally agree. You can be green and not support genocide and forced population control.

Originally posted by bobbylove321
reply to post by andre18

 

I don't think you read or watch the news much guy. This IS talked about EVERYWHERE!

It's in the mainstream news ALL the time as well. You just never see it.

Ok great - show me then. Show me one news segment talking about your conspiracy as real.

If you think we live in a fair world, then you are living in a fantasy land.

I never said that, dont twist my words. I said what the media reports is free, it's not controlled by the government. This isn't Communist China. But you expect me to believe it is controlled otherwise it would be all over the news. So to prove im wrong - show me one news clip. Just one.

Ron Paul talks about this as well as MANY more high figured people do so too.

Prove he does.

The Elite group exists, and they run EVERYTHING.

Prove it lol.

I'm pretty sure you are either acting dumb, or working for them. No other reason.

Ok this is exactly what i'm talking about. LMFAO!!!!!!!!
I don't agree with you absurd conspiracy so of course i must be working for them. Yep makes so much sense. And what's even more amusing is you don't even know who 'them' are. And yet you still expect me to believe this cock and bull story ...Sigh

Either I'm working for evil elitists or i'm ignorant because i don't agree with our position. Hmmmmmm interesting logic. Ill try that in court and see how i go.

reply to post by andre18


Hi.

Here's a video featuring Dr. Ron Paul discussing the global elite, and their control of many things, including MSM. This video is from 1988!!

If you really need more, just let me know. It's really, really easy to find information like this. You just gotta be willing to take that leap of a true skeptic.

DO SOME RESEARCH!!!

Having worked with a statistician compiling similar information for a non-profit organization I can honestly tell you the article is right on the money. Nice work!!!

If I stand in a 4 foot square box. (2 feet by 2 feet). Then the rest of the worlds population can stand in about 933 square miles. Guess what? The state of Rhode Island is 1214 square miles. I believe the earth has enough territory for us to share.

reply to post by TruthWarrior



It isnt about having enough room, its about carrying capacity.

2 completely different topics.

reply to post by unityemissions


Considering that interview with Ron Paul... it could be true, it might not be. I think there are definitely people/organizations who would like to rule the world or have more power. however, I also think that there is not only one group... I think it more likely that there would be several groups all vying for power.

Just keep in mind that no power structure survives forever. Bill Gates and Microsoft were not members of an illuminati... and yet Gates became one of the most powerful men in the world.

On the other hand, we've seen other factions fall... like Enron, some of the people behind the Republican party (it's known and accepted for example that George Bush Jr was chosen by certain people to be a presidential candidate, it wasn't something he did on his own) have fallen from their seats of power or at least lost some power.

One of the reasons I like a Libertarian stance on economics is that by separating business and government it eliminates corporate welfare and makes it easier for companies to be held to the whims of the people.

Propaganda that has been espoused since the mid 60s and magnified since the 70's "Population Zero" campaigns. Population control is about POWER over others in every conceivable manner and many fail to see it for what it is. It's not about not having enough of anything, it's being able to play god and decide who's worthy to live and who's not.

I suggest people look closely at the folks who are screaming the loudest about how the population is causing irrepairable harm to the environment or there's not enough of this or that to go around, etc,,. They tend to live the opposite of how they suggest everyone else live which leads me to believe they have another objective for passing rhetoric to the masses.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus a single asteroid can be worth 17 Trillion in Platinum RIGHT NOW

Well...in the interest of not making excessive promises...not really. If you put what is currently 17 trillion dollars worth of platinum on the market, it would collapse the price of platinum. Without checking...I'm pretty sure that would be multiple times more platinum than has ever been mined. Hmm yeah probably many multiple times more.

All the gold that has ever been mined would make a cube...30 yards on a side. Or was it feet? I'd have to punch the numbers again. But the point is, it's really not all that much. And Platinum is even more rare.

When there's a bunch of people up there living and working in space, the most valuable thing you can find might end up being water that is in a convenient location/orbit.

But I agree of course we could do a lot worse than space mining. The real benefit comes from all the things we could do if the rare materials found in asteroids were accessed and thus not so rare.

[edit on 4-6-2009 by 11andrew34]

[edit on 4-6-2009 by 11andrew34]

reply to post by bobbylove321

I agree with you and will justify it.

If all the ppl on the entire planet were put in Texas they would all
get a little over 1,000 sq ft if you did not have multi story buildings.

Texas

268,820 square miles.

5,280 ft. x 5,280 ft. = 27, 878, 400 sq. ft per sq. mile.

268,820 x 27,878,400 = 7,494,271,488,000 , ie. 7.4 trillion sq ft.

If we had 7.4 billion ppl we would get 1,000 sq. ft.

As for a food problem we can use vertical hydroponics, ranchers
in Australia are required by law to keep the rabbit population down
because if not a population boom will occur.

Monsanto and all the ppl that pushed their crap need to be
taken to the gallows, or the guillotine.

There is a disease rabbits have that can be cured and would cause
a rabbit explosion and feed all the world if we wanted to.

Rabbit population explosion

Furthermore in food we can raise plants like Amaranth that make
a complete protein for vegetarians, and it is resistant to
Monsanto's nasty DNA damaging roundup.

For pure water from the ocean just use solar stills.

Inland in dry areas for water you can put in water catchment
systems to catch what rain water does fall.

You can use wind powered pumps like dotted the prairie long ago,
drilling the wells will be another matter.

We need to also not take the time to purify water just to use it to
water our lawns, fill our swimming pools that birds take a dump in,
or toilets that we take a dump in.

We need a 2nd water system for non internal consumption.

For housing we need to go zero energy to heat or cool, so we
need something that makes lots of tiny air bubbles like that
paint additive designed for and by NASA.

High insulation value paint

Low Tech building methods will also work like Cob, and Papercrete,
and many others.

Now for Power, the obvious ones:

Solar Thermal, Wind, Geothermal, Tidal.

The Sahara alone could power the earth many times over.

The not so obvious ones:

Hydraulic shoe inserts like gel soles that are pneumatic that provide
power to low energy devices like ipods and cell phones, etc.

The sewer systems of the world make methane, and we could trap
it and use it in methane fuel cells and it is cleaner than burning it and
it is much like natural gas.

In Australia they already turned a giant city dump into a bio reactor,
and I think all dumps should go this route and make and use the
methane.

1% of the Jetstream could power the entire planet.

Jet Stream Power

Ocean current power, the strongest being the Antarctic Circumpolar current
that is equal to 125 times the flow of all rivers on earth.

Antarctic Circumpolar current

The US Navy at the Spawar facility in san diego has proven in public
that what was called Cold Fusion does in fact produce some kind
of nuclear process and excess heat.

Cold Fusion experimentally confirmed

So I think that wraps up our power problems in several ways.

So we got food, water, power, and cheap building materials, and
plenty of space here on Earth.

The biggest problem we got is he same mindset that was in the
German scientists during WW2.

I think the descendants of operation paperclip have been selling
their brand of world control.

Operation paperclip

If you get a chance watch "the good German", and then do some reading.

Good Luck to you all !

Originally posted by SurvivalGearDepot
reply to post by TruthWarrior

 

It isnt about having enough room, its about carrying capacity.

2 completely different topics.

Carrying capacity is a load of tripe that is based on that Club
of Rome book called Limits to Growth.

Any of the derivative works I give as much credit as those
Club of Rome shills.

They have an agenda and some of their looney followers had it
carved in stone and stuck on a hill in Georgia.

It is called the Georgia Guidestones.

The same mentally challenged operation paperclip offspring
are spewing the same thing their grand parents did in the fatherland
in the 30's and 40's.