Question for Phage, Internos, Chadwickus and Easynow...

I have tried to read every post but i may have missed something. As others have added their favorites i will add one of mine.


South African Kids See UFO


This is one of my favorite cases because all the kids saw it and many of their pictures are similar. There are other cases but they all seem to have been mentioned so no point putting them up again

Originally posted by mckyle
Zorgon, is that "27" meant to be a 57?

In 1927 it was reported that two American scientists had received strangely delayed signals from space.

In 1953 there was another bizarre incident! On the North West coast in Morecambe a specialist in long distance TV picked up the call-sign for KLEE-TV, in Houston, Texas, USA. This was remarkable enough but further enquiry revealed this particular call sign had been out of use for over three years! The same person picked up similar time delayed signals four years later in 1957. Once again these signals seemed to have been bouncing around space - their strength undiminished by the passing of the years!

The unfolding puzzle of this bizarre episode was duly reported and published in the German science magazine Naturwisennschaften ( natural science ) in 1929

www.space-2001.net...

Hope that clears up your confusion






[edit on 24-5-2009 by zorgon]

Originally posted by ArMaP
What gets me "stumped" is the UFO phenomena itself, in its whole.

The variety of the shapes and sizes reported, the way the UFOs change with the times at which they were seen, from the "globes, crosses, and tubes" seen over Nuremberg to the 80s cigar shaped UFOs and today's triangle UFOs, not forgetting the small round, bright objects like the one in the Gorman case, UFOs with many lights, few lights, no lights, making some kind of noise or silent, affecting the surrounding area or not, makes me think that we may be looking at different aspects or types of the same thing or at completely different and unrelated things, and that is one of the reasons that makes me try to understand each case on its own instead of grouping them all together under just one category.

Well said! I can't tell you how many times I've had to tell people that most observations are very likely yet-unknown atmospheric phenomenon. Though I'm also quick to point out that there have been cases that do suggest intelligence. Part of the problem is that the word 'UFO' has never achieved an officially agreed upon definition. Depending on its usage the word UFO can mean a number of things.

Some people use Dr. Hartman's definition (the stimulus for a report made by one or more individuals of something seen in the sky ... which the observer could not identify as having an ordinary natural origin, and which seemed to him sufficiently puzzling that he undertook to make a report of it).

Others imply Dr. Hynek's usage (a UFO is a report the contents of which are puzzling not only to the observer but to others who have the technical training the observer may lack).

However by far the most common definition is the ET hypothesis or alien spacecrafts.

Analyzing all the usages it becomes obvious UFO actually means "a process to identify an unidentified aerial sighting."

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/464fe2453d13.png[/atsimg]

The problem at the moment is there are very few bodies that are willing to do "official" evaluations to complete the "official escalation of explanation" loop.

What I find compelling is that the US government was confronted by many scientists who agreed average people were reporting a "true unknown" phenomenon throughout the '40s and '60s (Drs. Mirarchi, La Paz, Hynek, Thayer, Shough, J. E. McDonald, R. Leo Sprinkle, Garry C. Henderson, Roger N. Shepard, Robert Hall, James Harder, Robert M. L. Baker, Frank Salisbury, Seymour Hess, Charles B. Moore, Al Cameron, Robert M. Wood, Eugene Epstein, Gordon MacDonald, Robert Wilson, etc). In response to this the USAF / AFSAB started Twinkle and escalated to Project Sign, Grudge, Blue Book and finally the Condon Committee.

Unfortunately Dr. Edward Condon's report was "official" enough to render all opposing viewpoints moot despite 30% of the reviewed cases remaining unknown after spending $500,000 of taxpayers money. Even scientists with an anti-UFO position considered the report rubbish (ie/ Thornton Page) because the "Conclusions and Recommendations" and "Summary of the Study" didn't accurately reflect the contents of the study.

Sadly I think history is going to have a very poor view of Dr. Condon for one simple reason. As humans we know that we don't understand all of reality and thus we accept the following Venn diagram as true (obviously the percentages vary).

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0b85bfc5a64a.png[/atsimg]

Effectively by shouting down the study of UFOs Condon was stating that there was nothing new in our skies that is "truly unknown" that could be learned through the anecdotal testimony of the average person. In Dr. Condon's words,

As indicated by its title, the emphasis of this study has been on attempting to learn from UFO reports anything that could be considered as adding to scientific knowledge. Our general conclusion is that nothing has come from the study of UFOs in the past 21 years that has added to scientific knowledge. Careful consideration of the record as it is available to us leads us to conclude that further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be advanced thereby.
(Source: (1969) Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects. Boulder, Colorado: Bantam Books. ISBN NA, pg. 1)

With the help of hindsight we can prove Dr. Condon wrong.

Sprites, large scale electrical discharges that occur high above thunderstorm clouds, were documented "with anecdotal reports since 1886." (1) It wasn't until 1989 that scientists photographed the phenomenon! Colin Price, a geophysicist at Tel Aviv U., believes Sprites have resulted in numerous UFO reports. (source: space.com)

Now some might argue that Condon was using a different definition of UFO (ie/ alien craft). I'll quote the Condon Report's definition verbatim,

An unidentified flying object (UFO, pronounced OOFO) is here defined as the stimulus for a report made by one or more individuals of something seen in the sky (or an object thought to be capable of flight but seen when landed on the earth) which the observer could not identify as having an ordinary natural origin, and which seemed to him sufficiently puzzling that he undertook to make a report of it to police, to government officials, to the press, or perhaps to a representative of a private organization devoted to the study of such objects.

(Condon 1969, pg. 9)

Since we have an example where Condon was incorrect, does that not also suggest there are other 'true unknowns' being observed that could account for yet other sightings? Obviously!

I've been trying very hard to impart to friends in the scientific community that the scientific method is benefited by using the above process to locate genuine unknowns so they can be studied and deductively analyzed. However without people to confirm or debunk sightings the "official escalation of explanation" loop is non-existent and therefore the process degrades into conspiracy theories.

Furthermore the USAF is roped into this study whether they like it or not.

[edit on 24-5-2009 by Xtraeme]

reply to post by internos


The Israel sighting has always intrigued me too. I wish there were more footage of it though, since it evidently was stationary for several hours.

I also like to second you on the "I believe vs I know" matter.

I consider myself "virtually" knowing though. To me it is very illogical that we would be alone in this universe and therefor I "virtually know". But of course you can never know without solid proof.

I love this matter just as you Internos, but I am not even near as good as you, not do I have time when it comes to digging up information about a picture/article etc.

ATS is and will most likely continue to be the BEST tool to use on the internet because of guys like you Internos, MikeSingh, Easynow, Zorgon, Armap, Phage and Chad to just name a few, when it comes to extraterrestrial issues and other phenomenons.

Someone pointed out that my name should be included in this group of people. I am not near as good as these guys. Flattered though...
My gag is to enhance, animate and analyze the images they have provided.

Though, my favorite matter is The Tether Inccident.

This thread is just one of many. I just took one in the pile.
I don't think I ever will be convinced that these are lens objects.

[edit on 24-5-2009 by Akezzon]

Some great cases listed here -particularly the RB-47 case and the Coyne incident

I don't think anyone can discuss UFOs/OVNIs without addressing the USO aspect of the subject.
It may be a gross exaggeration but Dr. Ivan T. Sanderson has stated that, by actual count, over 50 percent of the UFO sightings have occurred over,coming from,submerging
or emerging from bodies of water.

Theres a very interesting case from Gosford,Australia where several upstanding,
highly credible (and separately located) townsfolk witnessed an unknown object taking up water from a lake - the witnessess describe a brightly lit object hovering over the lake emitting five shafts of light whilst the water was frothing and bubbling beneath it.

Video:
www.youtube.com...

Australian Police UFO reporting website -The Gosford Incident:

On Saturday evening December 30 1995, all phones rang hot at Gosford Police Station as motorists called on their mobile phones to report a large craft hovering above Mooney-Mooney Bridge.
Later, dozens of calls flooded in from distressed locals at home.
Station Sergeant Bob Wenning states,“People were woken by an intense humming noise. They were genuinely frightened when they saw a huge cylindrical object hovering over the water. It had a polished, ball-like bottom, and as it hovered over the lake, its lights shone down into the water, apparently turning it in to steam”. Callers also reported a brilliant light which “turned night into day”, shining through their bedroom windows.
Patrol cars were sent out to investigate, but whenever police officers came to within 50 meters of it, or car headlights got close, the craft would turn off its own lights and shoot up skywards, out of sight. One police officer reported that it flew away “as if you had a torch beam and whipped it around.”
Seasonal parties, previously well behaved, suddenly erupted into antisocial behaviour. Residents reported their animals cowered and hid, and many dogs howled for no apparent reason. Car patrols were dispatched from one spot to another as the object moved back and forth over the area.All callers gave the same account of a saucer-shaped craft, 20 to 30 meters across, surrounded by bright white light, and with intense shafts of light that penetrated the foaming water below, or when away from the water, once the shafts of white light were off, underneath was a red glow or flashing red-orange lights.

The event largely died out around dawn at 5am, after Police units had been dispatched on over 35 calls,one officer relating that the evening reminded him of a night of “Moon Madness”, that phenomenon known to police whereby civil unrest increases during the full moon.

"Callers were genuinely frightened."
Sergeant Bob Wenning of the Gosford Police

policeufo.com...

Other Police Reports:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

There are also some truly intriguing (sonar corellated) cases collated in SkyFloating's USO thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Thanks to Internos and Carl for your contributions. Much appreciated.

Hopefully Phage contributes his most intriguing cases as well.

Originally posted by bskivss3
Thanks to Internos and Carl for your contributions. Much appreciated.

Bskivss3 -you're welcome
Found this case to be a very intriguing one as well:
Cape Girardeau, Missouri Crash Retrieval 1941
PDF File:
www.ufocasebook.com...
Cheers.


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

One of the better cases I think is very good is the Flatwoods Monster encounter at Braxton County, WV. Frank Feschino wrote a good book on the subject about the encounter entitled "The Braxton County Monster" where he interviews the witnesses in the case.

It starts out where there was a "meteor" that landed in a field. A group of teen boys accompanied by the adult Mrs May have a terrifying encounter with a metallic shaped being. They get some type of oily substance on them and also get sick from a very strong odor. Since no crater was ever found, the meteor theory does not hold water. Many debunkers claim the group saw an owl, but that also does not hold water after investigating the area.

Mr Feschino gets the whole story and what the creature (which was probably a suit for a creature) really looked like as it did not have the claw like arms many drawings show. He shows the boys' original drawings of what they saw (they drew what they saw separated from each other) and they are very similar. Other sightings in the area at the time are also found, along with many old newspaper stories from the time. A very well done book about a popular case in ufology lore gets the treatment it deserves as much new information is learned on the case. An updated version of his book is going to be released shortly.

www.flatwoodsmonster.com...

Another good case is the Shag Harbor Nova Scotia case from October 1967. Much has been written about this still baffling case, which is a mix of UFO and USO sightings and tracking.

www.ufocasebook.com...

This is a very good case, the question was not addressed to me on the OP but nevertheless I hope this contributes to the discussion:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Cheerio

Camilo



[edit on 25-5-2009 by Camilo1]

What would actually be really useful is a section somewhere on ATS where each of these individual cases is given it's own thread that can be easily accessed and referred to.

A library of knowledge as it were.

I doubt it would take too long for it to cover almost every significant sighting at which point it would probably be the premier internet resource for research into the phenomena.

There could be further classification by sub folder as to the type of case i.e. CE2, anon image only etc and once categorically debunked each could be moved into the explained section.

Project Black Book ?

reply to post by internos


The download links are not working. They said they have been removed or not found...

Great cases and information. I havent heard of some of these.

Thank You for everyone who replied to this mail. Well done

Unfortunalty Phage hadnt replied. but hey, we have some great input.

Cheerio

that is a little strange though.....

Phage will turn up normaly every time with something to say..... but gone for this ???

Conspiracy ahoy me thinks.....

reply to post by Disclosure Agent


Maybe he is on Vacation. Imagine that, a life beyond ATS. Tsk!

He's probably not ignoring you. According to his profile the last time Phage logged into ATS was 3 days before this thread started.

Edit for typo.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by dainoyfb]

Originally posted by dainoyfb
He's probably not ignoring you. According to his profile the last time Phage logged into ATS was 3 days before this thread started.

Oh NO!!! He's been abducted

Hmmm hope he is okay... I miss him already

Originally posted by dainoyfb
He's probably not ignoring you. According to his profile the last time Phage logged into ATS was 3 days before this thread started.

haha right.. my guess is he's avoiding this thread like the pig flu!

just joking.. but really i would love to hear what stumps this guy. he always has such a clever, snide explanation for everything.

[edit on 30-5-2009 by kronos11]

reply to post by kronos11

Bump this so the people who have not replied have a chance to now...;-)
2nd

I know I wasn't asked personally, but here is UFO case that is overlooked way too often as being one of the strangest and most credible abduction cases in history.

The Valentich Disappearance

The Frederick Valentich Disappearance is a mysterious event that occurred on October 21, 1978, in which 20-year-old Frederick Valentich disappeared in unexplained circumstances while piloting a Cessna 182L light aircraft over Bass Strait to King Island, Australia.

Prior to his disappearance, Valentich reported via radio that he had encountered an unidentified craft that flew at high speed dangerously close to his Cessna, and later hovered over his aircraft. The case attracted significant press attention and became part of UFO lore.

No trace of Valentich or his aircraft was ever found, and a Department of Transport investigation concluded that the reason for the disappearance could not be determined.

Source

wonder whats happened to Phage - doesnt appear to have been online for a while.