Question for Phage, Internos, Chadwickus and Easynow...

reply to post by Nohup


It's definitely tough to find a logical way to discuss something that we explicitly define as "high-strangeness".

I imagine we probably have a lot of trouble measuring the circle because our brains are naturally wired to try and find the beginning first.

But for me, the ET hypothesis is still the most "logical" way to start because it fits what we (think we) know about our physical universe in 2009 (i.e. it's big and there's probably other, smarter people in it).

But one of the logical problems with the ET thing is how they apparently get here so frequently considering the whole speed-of-light limit.

That's when you have to start considering not just out-of-this-world possibilities but basically out-of-this-universe ones, and things get really really fun.

That's why this topic will never stop intriguing me - because the more you learn, the less you realize you know.

Good thread. I just got done reading some of the cases easynow posted. Good stuff. As for the people OP mentioned, they definitely keep this forum alive and keep us thinking. So, thank you!

BUT, just be sure to have your own opinions too, guys! As smart as they might be or seem to be, they're not always right.

Flag

There are a few cases that keep me interested in this subject:

1. The Roswell Crash. The biggest thing that keeps me coming to this one is that the base commander issued a press release to the press about finding a crashed disk. A full bird colonel would not risk his career over a practical joke during the cold war, and the personnel knew what a weather balloon looked like. This is also one of the few cases where neither skeptics or debunkers deny something crashed at Roswell. Add in the fact that the debris was specially flown to Wright Patterson AAF instead of the usual channels and also the inclusion of several flag officers over the incident and one can see why I am interested.

2. The Betty and Barney Hill case. I know I have stated this many times, but there is much evidence to back up the claim of abduction: ripped and mystery stain on dress, Barney's shoes scratched from being dragged, the circular marks on the vehicle, the radar confirmation of an unknown object in the area by Pease AFB, and the star map. Many also state that Barney copied what Betty dreamed about, but the reality was her dreams were different than what she experienced. Mrs Hill wrote down her dreams, and when they were compared to what she recalled, they were different. At the same time, Barney and Betty's recalled memories were the same in many details even though both were told to forget what they recalled by the therapist.

3. Lonnie Zamora. A respected police officer not only has a close encounter, but he photographs the landing of the egg shaped object and the footprints of the occupants. Like the others, this case hooked me when I was younger.

4. The many sightings over missile silos and rocket launches. Robert Hastings has compiled a comprehensive book of sightings and documents about such sightings. The officers would not be making this up as it is detrimental to their careers. Many excellent cases, including the film of the flying saucer and the rocket reported on the Larry King Show.

There are many others, but these cases have me stumped. I am a veteran and know how the military works which helps me when I examine what reactions were taken by a base. Thank you for a great thread, S&F.

Originally posted by mc_squared
But for me, the ET hypothesis is still the most "logical" way to start because it fits what we (think we) know about our physical universe in 2009 (i.e. it's big and there's probably other, smarter people in it).

Well, going by what we know right now, time travelers is actually a more logical explanation. Why?

* Unlike hypothetical "aliens," we know we exist.
* We're clever, and have a way of figuring things out that at first might seem impossible according to current knowledge.
* UFOs are "people sized," and not generally the size of mountains (although micro-UFOs would be hard to spot).
* Descriptions of aliens tend toward the humanoid, with variations that might be accounted for by genetic engineering or good old evolution.
* Encounters have included human, or human-appearing "aliens."
* As huge as the odds are of another intelligent spacefaring species evolving all on its own, the odds get even bigger that they would evolve into something that looked basically like us.

So rather than having to imagine ways around all of the above, in order to account for an entire unknown ET alien species, it's much more reasonable to simply extrapolate from what we already know. And that points to time travelers.

However, that will likely lead you to all the things I posted about earlier...

Hi Nohup and all.

Originally posted by Nohup
. . .it's much more reasonable to simply extrapolate from what we already know. . .

And inspired by what you said up there, and
as I have often said elsewhere:
About UFOs, here are my finds/thoughts, (that I did not invent):

1- Some UFOs come from someWHERE.

2- Some UFOs come from someWHEN !

3- Some travel by moving.

4- Some travel by thought.

5- All in the universe is entangled. [What the BLEEP!? down the rabbit hole].

6- There exist: space/time & time/space,
meaning:
**WE** can move 3 ways in space, in one time line.
**THEY** can move 3 ways in time, in one space. (without moving).

7- One day, science will tell us:
! All universe's matter is made of solid light !

8- The new ***theory of everything*** !
www.ted.com...

9- Some UFOs are build in a factory by 3rd density entities, like us.
Some UFOs are "thought formed" by the Xth density entities !
Some entities don't even need UFOs.

10- There are positive and negative 4th and 5th density entities.
6th and 7th density entities are positive only ! Benevolent !
Our mentality, our profoundness, our life's services to others
decide which polarity of 4th and 5th density entities will visit us.

11- and stuff I forgot. . .? B-)

And if I may add : read the Ra material in my signature, and the
[My Favorite Sites] box in my profile, and you will have A LOT more answers !

Blue skies.

What a great thread! S & F. I will stand by to hear what each of the aforementioned "great minds' of ATS have to say regarding their fave and most puzzling posts. I think they all are strong contributors and problem solvers, and it is always informative to hear their input on the hard to explain threads.

Standing by - and thanks again for the thread!

reply to post by kidflash2008

4. The many sightings over missile silos and rocket launches. Robert Hastings has compiled a comprehensive book of sightings and documents about such sightings. The officers would not be making this up as it is detrimental to their careers. Many excellent cases, including the film of the flying saucer and the rocket reported on the Larry King Show.

Hiya KF, agreed, the AFB and silo accounts are fascinating. Indian Point, Malmstrom nuclear silo and the Nellis AFB UFO ( Video) can only make us wonder. Presidents, priests, politicians and pilots (alliterate) are only human and are open to question. It's possible the accounts are untrue or mistaken, nevertheless they are intriguing.

Thank you so far for the wonderful contribution and to Springer, cheers Boss!!

We wait for the two Masters, Phage and Internos

Hats off thus far

I am a long time reader, however a very new ( 5 minutes ago) member. This topic finally got me to join, since I had to say that I also do really appreciate the insight from the aformentioned members. Phage in particular almost always has well thought out and logical posts (not to take anything away from the others, just I tend to remember his posts )

For me there has to be ying to the yang, as I am here for information, both sides of the coin; so I can form my own opinion.

As far as the topic at hand, not that my opinion (1st post) matters, Ottawa, Canada (where I am from) has always been a ufo hotspot, and I have heard many a story while sitting around a camp fire. My favorite is the rather famous Carp UFO files. I remember it being aired on our local news, and then saw it on Unsolved Mysteries

reply to post by zorgon


Welcome Zorgon!

I am still sitting tightly on my seat in this thread waiting to see more of the interesting stuff from our honoured celebrities

EDIT: Including you

[edit on 22/5/2009 by GEORGETHEGREEK]

This is a great thread! One of the best i have seen. Kinda like a one stop shop for the UFO cases with the most credibility,thanks for posting

great thread

im very new to this so ive never even heard of half the cases that have been mentioned so far, i look forward to looking into them

Honestly, me personally, I find zorgon, internos, and mikesingh to be the top posters here. They always post extremely intriguing material, and their styles are nothing short of pure quality. Not to say that there aren't many others, but those are the three that really define ATS to me.

Regards,

Well since everyone else is giving their top cases I guess I will too!

It is hard to say really, because there is more to Ufology than just sightings, crashes, abductions, and trace cases. There is also the "whistleblower" and leaked files aspect to it. IMO a lot of progress in Ufology is due to the last two. But anyways to stay on topic here is my top ten off the top of my head.


1.The Roswell Crash
2.The Kecksburg Crash
3. The Hill Abduction
4. The Walton Abduction
5. The NASA Discovery Transmission
6. The Height 611 Crash
7. The Mantell Incident
8. The 1976 Tehran Dogfight
9. The Gorman Dogfight
10. The 1952 Washington D.C. "Fleet"
(Should I put the BCS rankings in too?LOL)

6-10 are nearly all equal in rank so don't take the ranking of those to seriously. I tried to stay away from cases already discussed also (except the classics). There are MANY more and some that are good and likely belong in there but I have not had a chance to go over them in detail (I like detail). There are also many that should be there that I know about but I omitted due to some of the cases being the "easy to find" ones.

Here is a great thread about the top 100 cases:

Top 100 UFO Cases

Sorry I would have included links in the top ten but I am having issues with my "copy and paste" feature on the Internet right now!

[edit on 5/22/2009 by jkrog08]

reply to post by Nohup


An alternative and perhaps equally logical theory could be that all or some life on earth "evolved" (maybe devolved) from ET.

Many traditions / religions can be interpreted as alluding to the fact, it could be said that we already know the anwser, we just find it difficult to convince ourselves.

This theory does not require any new, or at least never before observed, laws of physics i.e. time travel.

Would love to see something from Armap as well. He seriously throws some hard questions out there for some of these cases. Would be interesting to see what actually stumps him. Same with Phage.

Internos, he has posted some of the better topics i've read on here in over 2 years. Really look forward to his response.

On the Washington DC event.......



Courtesy of legjoints.com

Temperature Inversion right???

Next time you see that it might be too late....



[edit on 5/22/2009 by jkrog08]

did I miss something? are we still waiting for Phage? he's definitely my favorite skeptomaniac around here... curious to see what stumps him.

my favorites are cases that have great witnesses such as this recent story of a pilot and passengers who witnessed two large ufos off coast of Guernsey. this case was covered on the local media as well as a history channel investigation...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...


BTW great thread OP!

Very interesting to see that you all are referencing the newest videos or images and yet as always man fails to study and so he is doomed to repeat history over and over.

Peace

Originally posted by jkrog08
On the Washington DC event.......


Temperature Inversion right???

I can't find a source for that photo. Phage picked me up on this in a different thread when I linked a video of the 1952 washington flyover. The video was cobbled together a few years ago and it was based off a photo that was a dramatised reconstruction of the event.

I have not been able to track down a real photo of those lights and would be very interested to find a genuine.