Infinity is an existing being, self aware, mathematically proven....

reply to post by Johnmike


Well said sir!

Its a question as i pointed out hehe the only way to find things out is via questions..

The only way for us to work out ANYTHING requires infinity

it has noting to do with the universe as a "thing" but its NEEDED as a methord

Just like questions are needed in conversations ; )

reply to post by spartacus mills


; ) im glad you alteast understand the agle from what i based my comments.

You see.. the way i understand mathmacis / infinity is via understanding.. im not here to prove anything im only showing what is there for others to debate it .. "dont shoot the messanger" ect..

A question is as needed as infinity "as a word" as they are both subject to the very same rules of the universe "i agree on very differnet angles" but if one is to have a question what would one have befor? and what would come after?

This is what we find with infinity it is needed for us to understand the universe and ask questions of it.. if we infact knew everything we would have no need for questions or infinity ; )

Randomness is a pattern of randomness?
Kind of ass end logic isn't it?

Are you the person who refers to himself as a "Christian Mystic?"

If so, you require a lot more evidence than "the existence of infinity proves God (or is a being within itself)". Infinity is a man-made abstraction and I'm not sure how it proves the existence of an omnipotent being. Plus, the claim of a specific God (in this case the Christian deity) requires even more extraordinary evidence.

One big problem with OPs theory and that is that it is theorised and viewed upon by a being with limited knowledge, intelligence and perception. You might as well ask a 2 year old how a computer works, that is the same translation as to asking a human how to understand the universe.

We know nothing above what we are capable of knowing nor understanding.

[edit]
Oh I forgot to add that although I believe above is capable of finding flaws in the original post it is still an intriguing theory and does deserve a flag as I have no way of disproving it.

[edit on 8/4/2009 by spitefulgod]

reply to post by symmetricAvenger


Okay I did some more thinking while driving and came to the understanding that the questioning of humanity does not equate with infinity.

Humanity, on a whole, may in fact always ask questions stemming from the ultimate wonders of, "who are we" , and, "why are we here". Just because this may go on forever, does not equate to infinity.

Surely infinity existed before humanity's ability to be self aware. Not as a concept, but the meaning behind the concept. The very existence beyond space-time, while including it.

I do agree that subject & object are one. That what we focus on expands. We are constantly creating new realities with our thoughts to infinity, however, there must be an intelligence outside of our own which is also creating.

Why? Easy. I already stated why. Science tells us the universe existed before humanity. Therefore, questions of humanity do not equate to infinity. It may be used as a representation, as a metaphore, but it's limited in application and understanding, as are we all.

Also, the way that I've experienced/perceived infinity is actually quite the opposite of having to do with questions. It only happens when we entirely stop thoughts/questioning and simply experience existence as is. Space-time becomes transcended and we find ourselves......can't really finish this train of thought.

I do allow myself to change perspectives, and "jump in another persons shoes" temporarily, but have found this particular jump to not be quite so accurate. Am back in my own. Thanks for the ride!

[edit on 8-4-2009 by unityemissions]

[edit on 8-4-2009 by unityemissions]

reply to post by unityemissions


I can understand were you are coming from with the self aware thing.. but im trying to get you to just understand were i am coming from as in regards to questions

every single question is a WHY there is no infact way to describe what a why is other than chaos.. I do alot of physics and i have been doing mathmatics for over 20 years on this very subject..

You see for me to eqaute both WHY and infinity is not because of a self aware being nore is it based on a universe that is infact "or" may not be infante ect

its more to do with the very question itself..

you see we are on the same path just differnet lines of thinking.. that is never a bad thing..

But if you read my posts under my OTHER name you will find we have alot more in common that you think

You say the universe or infinity is a being.. were i say the universe is infact a growing living thing

Ifinity for me is only ones understanding of what it is we are infact in.. we can only postulate that the universe is ifiniate based on numbers and numbers are both logical and ilogical..

1 and 2

line and circul

pi and logic

this is the point here and it shows up everyplace you wish to look.. the reason for the oddness in the universe is only because we dont understand the rules underlying it.. the reason for logic is us..

Look at your body.. would that body make any sens what so ever according to the way your mind thinks works and precives the universe ?

I think not.. but then again it does why? because ur brain is on another level than your physical boday and you can not put ur thoughts into a shape that we can understand! hence why we have questions and infinity

they both go in tandom as that is how the universe as we understand was infact created.. its both of what we know and see.. but only on levels of understanding do some people see this picture.

some people use shapes to define the question, some people use god some people use a palathar of other ways to describe one basic thing

the very question you ask.. a question is everything and nothing depending on the level or infact the question..

I question the very question thats how i understand what and who and why we are here...

Your life is meaningless.. you being here is not..

some people like to think other wise untill they are on there deathbed and it hits home

you do infact no fk all and your path in life was made befor the universe based on rules that make it impossible to answer WHY because if you did then the universe would not infact BE HERE.. and would make you GOD

who is asking the question?

there is you problem

iv been round this block more times than you think or understand..

and were did it get me? back to the place i started.. WHY

it owns your entire being infact its the very nature of the universe..

thats why the question we seek is very much INFINITY

keep asking and you wont get the answer stop asking and all becomes apparnt

reply to post by dominicus

I'm still waiting for a clarification of the first post. It seems as if I have been wasting my time here, but perhaps there will be something of interest if only you could explain it clearly.

reply to post by symmetricAvenger


Ya know, a lot of what you say does ring a bell. It's conclusions I came to over the years. I just can't quite get some of the logic you use, but that's okay. I have always been much more intuitive (right-brain) than logical, although on an IQ test (logic test) I still am somewhere above average, which I find no reason to post exactly what mark I made.

I'm okay not understanding everything you say just yet. Especially if you've been doing mathematics for over 20 years. I'm only 26, and stopped mathematics a long time ago, though when in school I excelled in it.

I'll let some of this soak in the subconscious and come back periodically to absorb more. I don't take your word as an absolute, regardless of if you're the next Einstein or not, but as I said, something about this does make sense...just not making the logical connections yet.

Originally posted by Johnmike
I don't understand how you go into that with infinity.

Infinity is fake, the way it's used in mathematics. You can't really add, divide, or do anything to infinity (though this is sort of a lie, you're just not supposed to most of the time) because it's not a number and doesn't exist. And one infinity isn't the same as another...


(...)

So infinity, through this test of surjection, cannot equal infinity; therefore, there must be different sorts of infinity. It gets even weirder when you try and add and subtract infinities from one another...but you're not really supposed to do that, since infinity is, in fact, some conceptual construct created to solve problems, and not really a number at all.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by Johnmike]

WOW


that nearly scrambled my egg, friend!
but i liked it


i have a question
are fractals (mandelbrot sets and julias, etc) somehow related to the mathematical concept of infinity?

reply to post by queenannie38


yep

you are infact a fractal ; ) well ur mind is / works as one

only problem is your body is not the same shape as your mind so it makes no sens what so ever when you look in the mirror!

reply to post by unityemissions


its always good to be honest about what you dont know than asume you do.

this is the very basis of my own theory.. that not knowing is the key..and infact is the very nature of life itself..

For if we knew it all.. it would all be very pointless indeed ; )

thats why the question is far more important than the answers! hehe questions infact determin the very answer you get..

and here is one funny thing.. when you ask the question you already proberbly knew the answer

or why ask it? ; ))

Infinity is just the word we use to describe something we have yet found a way to measure the extent of.

The word is meaningless beyond that. Infinity does not exist in nature as we know it.

Infinity is just the lack of a known measurement, there is no proof of anything being infinite.

Randomness we experience in nature is just our inability to see the pattern.

reply to post by CityIndian


Infinity is just the word we use to describe something we have yet found a way to measure the extent of.

thefor makes it a question

correct?

reply to post by symmetricAvenger


It's a place filler...

We call the absence of heat cold, the absence of light dark, the absence of known measurement infinity. There is no dark, only the lack of light. There is no cold, only the lack of heat. There is no infinity, only the lack of a measurement...

[edit on 8-4-2009 by CityIndian]

reply to post by CityIndian


ever tried to mesure a question?

you get the same result try it then post your findings hehe

^^)

I think this thread has gotten rather interesting, like a self preserved fractal.

I want to clarify a bunch of things, but those that don't get me well see my explanation as "going in circles". But to me and others who "get it" they are not circles.

First off, we have 2 camps here. The one's that seem to partially get it, as even me being the OP only partially gets it ...and the ones that dont get it at all.

The one's that don't get it at all are limiting infinity to a postulation, a sum, an idea. And I'm saying there is proof in simple math that proves infinity to be real. If we postulate on paper that 1+1=2 and then in real life go and grab 1 apple and then add another one, we have 2 apples.

In this sense, math/numbers proved what would happen in the world of postulation before we even got off our asses physically to test the theorem in the physical world.

So even though some are saying 1+1=3 because of the observer and all these other abstract ideas ...im trying to keep this simple for the sake of argument. We all agree, the majority of us at least, that 1+1=2 is a fact, can be proven in the physical world, and is a simple basis around which the rest of mathematics is built. Simple addition, fact.

So the number 1 is a postulate of a sum in the postulate realm but we also have examples of 1 in the physical world. This sum has its existence both in the postulate realm and in the physical realm. We all agree.

Now, what I'm trying to say, as far as proof goes, is that since the number 1 has its existence in the postulate realm and is intrinsically a frozen snapshot of infinity in the postulate realm .......since we have physical proof of 1 in the physical ream ....by nature then, the physical sum of 1 has to be a snapshot of a physical infinity ...or an abstract existent real infinity, it would have to be all these things because to say infinity is any one thing is to look at the snapshot. By the number 1 existing physically, automatically gives right to a real and existent infinity.

Also, when you move from 1 to 2, as JohnMike was showing with integers, fractions and decimal points ..........the space between 1 and 2 is also infinite, because you can keep getting smaller sums in between the two ...the decimal point keeps moving to the right, and each of those snapshots can be divided up by infinitesimally smaller and smaller sums.

Would those sums between 1 and 2 that we can keep making smaller and smaller ever stop? Is there a stopping point? A limit? Can we ever get to 2 from 1???? You can also have more of 1 like as 1.000001, 1.000002 but then you are again taking the whole of 1 and diving it infinitesimally.

I'm just saying, mathematical theories in the postulate realm that prove truths and tests in the physical realm, have to by nature allow for infinity to exist in some sort of format in the physical realm making it real, living breathing, every possible possibility. For us to grasp this reality we would have to experience its existence, or lose our sum of one, our sense of separation to see for ourselves if there real is this infinity that unites us all.

All of us arguing this is perhaps proof of infinity's existence. There has to be those that dont get, those that do, those in between, those that dont even exist to comprehend and every other possible possibility.

Smaller infinity and bigger infinity and negative infinity are all just aspects of infinity itself being every possible possibility.

Also forgot who ...but someone mentioned randomness being a pattern of randomness being bunk logic. Ok so let me put it this way. We have randomness and unrandomness and by virtue of each other we can realize the pattern of each opposite.

Or in the grander scheme of things, if this infinity is real ...then randomness would be a snapshot of infinity and each snapshot is a pattern because there will always be sets since infinity automatically has to explore every possible possibility of sets of things.

Then somebody else mentioned my spiritual preference....... are we not in the science and technology forum??? What significance would any of this have to do with what we are discussing?? I dont care what you believe or if your an atheist when it comes to exploring this Infinity being self aware and alive theory/idea/exploration.

Why should any of that matter??? If infinity does exist and is alive and we are sums and parts of it ...then what you or I follow or chose to go by in our own personal lives will be completely irrelevant to the grandness of infinity's existence ...and also by nature part of it. Theism and atheism would all have to be natural byproducts of every possible possibility as well as their outcomes where both are wrong, both are right, 1 is wrong and 1 is right and everything in between.

Anybody who takes 1 side automatically losses because they are choosing to explore another sum of the whole, instead of the whole itself.

symmetricavenger .......to a point I get what you are saying. But also a question equaling infinity also limits infinity to its equalness of a question. The idea is another snapshot, and if what you are saying is a reality then also it is a snapshot of the whole.

i can see what you are getting at in many ways.. and its true that being right and wrong is the same thing.. why? because thats the nature of the beast

the reason i use the question logic is the very same reason.. in order for you to ask the question or even postulate infinity into anything

what do you do first?

think about it abit

reply to post by dominicus


reply to post by dominicus


I think you're using one definition of the word infinite to prove a completely different concept.

I'm lost as to how you think the infinite breakdown of numbers is some kind of proof infinity is a physical entity? Let alone stretching it to become God.

We don't 'get it' because you're not giving us anything to get. I think you're mixing maths and philosophy and creating an unstable substance.

Does infinity have energy, and if it does where does that energy come from? Is infinite's energy infinite? How does infinity exist if it has no end, or no beginning? Can darkness exist without light? Cold without heat?

reply to post by symmetricAvenger

what do you do first?

Thats another can of worms ...what to do first. Whatever I do first I will be using a fragment of infinity to try to grasp something, to try to tell you, whatever I tell you will still be a snapshot, and as a result me trying to grasp, to say, trying to do anything creates another snapshot ....even trying not do any of these creates the snapshot of not doing.