Infinity is an existing being, self aware, mathematically proven....

reply to post by queenannie38


hehe loved the tree thing

its all about preception!! infinity indeed is finite.. but we are so tiny so unable to understand why we are here so we gave it a name

INFINITY

star for you queeny

Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
reply to post by science lol

 

only to ones lack of understanding...

This statement is ture in regards only to our lack of understanding..

If you was to look at a symmetric shape would it be random? Yes

same with quatom P.. its not random we just dont understand its patten.. but we will

we will becuase thats our job..

we are here to make the universe self replicate.. as all things in nature do>>

do you think for one seconed our universe is not self replicating?

look at the evidence.. the univer is ALIVE and it wants to self replicate and we are its baby

LIFE is the universe giving birth to itself

have a nice day

So you've thrown out free will?

[edit on 8-4-2009 by science lol]

reply to post by science lol


no such thing as free will.. misconsception of human ego..

what is free will? how can one be free in a constructed universe?

the rules of the game do not alow for free will lol they all lead to the same path...

You was created by rules that guide us all.. the only free will is your inablity to understand and accept why you are here..

free will is HOGWOSH.. why?

You was created.. what does created mean? well YOU was not here and who ever PUT us here.. made sure we ALL follow the same rules..

regardless of what you think do think you know do ect ...

we are here THAT is the rule No free will.. only the assumption you have it sir

look around you.. does a tree have the free will to become a pig? lol??

did life itself have its own free will not to infact be life?

understanding is lacking in humans, you may call me a guru you may call me what you want.. but i stoped asking along time ago.. i just listened understud my place in the cosmos..

my place has no meaning .. my place is to be here for the greater good of the universe for a role i do not know but a role that is needed..

getting that into ones head can be hard for some..

Your life is meaningless, you being here is not.. or you wouldnt be here

basic simple and beautifull.. who ever or what ever put us here was very very very smart..

it or he left one thing out and its his her biggest give away..?

us lot

OP: Could I direct you to one of my threads , it might not be the same concept as yours but from reading your OP it seems a bit that you have a similar mindset on somethings and I would love to read your opinion on my theory. Concentrate only on my OP (not my later posts with the link to the article as this was only used as a reference point to one part of my theory)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by queenannie38
randomness is an illusion created by the inability to see the *whole* picture at any given time

randomness has nothing to do with cause and effect
random is defined as: 'Having no specific pattern, purpose, or objective.'

You say randomness has nothing to do with cause and effect, then why do you quote a contradictory definition. purpose (objective)=cause and effect. I will explain: what is the purpose of say the color green? Well, we can look at it in either the religious (effect) way or the scientific (cause) way. The religious view (that's just what I call it) would say that the purpose was "for God's plan", that everything is part of the plan of existence and that is "why" it is here, it has a future or present duty so to speak. The scientific way of looking at it is to find the cause of it coming to be rather than the effect: for example the color green could be said to exist because wavelengths of defracted light of a certain range reach our eyes and are interpreted by our brain as what we call "color". Therefore purpose can be either cause or effect depending on how you look at it. Existence only has patterns (what you mistakenly seem to think means order) because of cause and effect. Everything is cause and effect. If you see something that seems to be chaos to you-it is really just that you cannot see any possible causes for whatever it is. Everything is actually linked though, every action has infinite effects throughout time, and every effect is in itself a cause to some other effect. You know the saying: Everything happens for a reason. Well it can also be interpreted this way: everything has a cause and an effect. Any questions?

Everyone seems to be very sure of their own opinions on this thread, even arrogantly so. It's strange how no one is willing to admit they may be wrong.

Does infinity only exist because we are around to ask the question? Not necessarily. There may be an infinite amount of other species somewhere in the universe posing the same question, which means infinity would exist even if humans didn't. Not only that, but infinity may simply exist even if there are NO sentient beings around to contemplate it.

To assume the non-existence of infinity outside of humanity's ability to create it will always be nothing more than just that, an assumption. The lack of an observer does not necessarily dictate a lack of the observable.

Does 1+1 = 2, even if humans are not around to conceive of it? Again, not necessarily. Maths may just be a construct of the human mind, just as any observable phenomena may be a construct of the human mind as well. It is impossible to prove either way, because we are always bounded by our own subjectivity.

Is infinity a self aware being? Once again, not necessarily! Just because we are self aware, it would only be an assumption to conclude that the universe must be as well. The thing is, our existence does not make sense to us. Therefore, it is pure folly to assume that whatever DOES make sense to us must necessarily be the case. We have to concede that the answer to the universe may make absolutely no sense to us whatsoever.

reply to post by spartacus mills


Just expanding on 1+1=2...

1 + 1 = 2, only to someone who has a pre-conceived notion of what "1" or "2" is. For example can you say infinity+infinity = double infinity? How can we have twice as much infinity, if it is infinite thus immeasurable?

So 1 + 1 = 2 but only by the definitions set by human observation. We create the methods to calculate things as we interpret them within our sphere of cognition. More complex lifeforms may use other methods suited to their sphere's of cognition and understanding.

We are limited to using our senses and tools/machines to interpret our sphere of cognition based on pre-existing and evaluated experiences which we use to define and interpret new and unquantified experiences.

reply to post by spartacus mills


Does infinity only exist because we are around to ask the question? Not necessarily

it does indeed only exist because we are around... take a step back

what do you know? befor you was not here.. if humans was infact not here what would you ask? what is it you would postulate?

EVERY SINGLE QUESTION YOU ASK is because you iinfact exist..

infiniyt is finite why? coz we dont know.. and 2nd its a question

infinity = the question why we are here..

reply to post by warrenb


well said sir!!! lol

1+1 =2 is incorrect in many ways.. the most important way is that it infact as you pointed out leaves out the observer in the very calculation

1+1=3

; )

infinity = question of why we are here nothing more

its a description of a question and a question is infact Infinite in its nature as its not an answer its a requirement to GET an answer

get my drift?

reply to post by symmetricAvenger


You seem to be confusing semantics with the possible nature of objective truth. If you want to arbitrarily decide that the definition of infinity is 'the question of why you are here', then that is simply your subjective opinion of what infinity means.

As an argument, it's completely moot, because the discussion is trying to determine what infinity might be objectively, not trying to determine what you think the word means.

Once again, just because humans are not here to ask about infinity, that doesn't automatically dictate that the concept itself is not valid. Only a dogmatic fool would assume this to be the case.

If you're saying that inifinity doesn't exist outside of humanity, and you're assuming the proof of this is that it only exists because we observe it, then what you're in fact saying is that nothing exists outside of humanity at all, since everything we know or are aware of is a result of our observation of it.

What you need to realise is that it is perfectly reasonable to hypothesise that there may in fact be things that exist, even if humans are not around to observe them. If you are unable to make this concession, then to me it simply says something about you, and not something about the universe or 'existence' itself.

Originally posted by spartacus mills
reply to post by symmetricAvenger

 

You seem to be confusing semantics with the possible nature of objective truth. If you want to arbitrarily decide that the definition of infinity is 'the question of why you are here', then that is simply your subjective opinion of what infinity means.

As an argument, it's completely moot, because the discussion is trying to determine what infinity might be objectively, not trying to determine what you think the word means.

Once again, just because humans are not here to ask about infinity, that doesn't automatically dictate that the concept itself is not valid. Only a dogmatic fool would assume this to be the case.

If you're saying that inifinity doesn't exist outside of humanity, and you're assuming the proof of this is that it only exists because we observe it, then what you're in fact saying is that nothing exists outside of humanity at all, since everything we know or are aware of is a result of our observation of it.

What you need to realise is that it is perfectly reasonable to hypothesise that there may in fact be things that exist, even if humans are not around to observe them. If you are unable to make this concession, then to me it simply says something about you, and not something about the universe or 'existence' itself.

You seem to be confusing semantics with the possible nature of objective truth.

what truth? that you know jack all? Oh sorry my bad i thought i was smart..

Just coz you dont get or can not grasp what im saying:

If you want to arbitrarily decide that the definition of infinity is 'the question of why you are here',

i shall fix your statment for you shall i

INFINITY IS THE QUESTION... or dont you get that part???

infinty and questions ARE THE SAME THING...

a question is boundless.. and so is infinity

a question is not a result nore will it give you yes or no to any argument as that is not the nature of the word....

so please befor you get on your high horse and preach about how right or wrong i am atleast understand what the word means and what im saying

you are telling ME that oh but but but BUT WHAT? what is it you know? tell me please?

is it wrong im telling you infinity is the INABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THE UNIVERSE?

AND THAT INFACT THE WORD INFINITY MEANS YOU DONT KNOW JACK?

Who is the one being arrogant here ?? me or you??

if we as humans was not on planet earth able to ask questions would infinity still be here a working thing in the universe??

is that the argument you are making? well the simple answer to that is NO

becuase we dont even know IF the universe is infinit but we know the QUESTION is..

DUHHH

What do you think of infinities of different sizes?
www.sciam.com...



For the record, I think what you're saying is complete nonsense.

what truth? that you know jack all? Oh sorry my bad i thought i was smart..

I do indeed know jack all, as you so elegantly put it. The difference is my ability to concede this fact, and your arrogance in assuming that your 'knowledge' of what infinity is, is absolute.

Just coz you dont get or can not grasp what im saying:

I get and grasp perfectly well what you're saying. What I'm saying is that you may be wrong.

i shall fix your statment for you shall i

INFINITY IS THE QUESTION... or dont you get that part???

I get it. It just may be completely wrong.

infinty and questions ARE THE SAME THING...

According to which objective truth?

a question is boundless.. and so is infinity

I agree.

you are telling ME that oh but but but BUT WHAT? what is it you know? tell me please?

I don't know anything. What I'm teling you is that you may be wrong, yet you have an inability to concede this point.

is it wrong im telling you infinity is the INABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THE UNIVERSE?

Maybe, maybe not.

Who is the one being arrogant here ?? me or you??

In my opinion, you. You are claiming to know an absolute truth, whereas I am simply pointing out that you may be wrong.

if we as humans was not on planet earth able to ask questions would infinity still be here a working thing in the universe??

Very possibly.

is that the argument you are making? well the simple answer to that is NO

It is not the argument I am making, which shows your inability to understand what I was saying. The argument I am making is that either could be the case.

becuase we dont even know IF the universe is infinit but we know the QUESTION is..

Not necessarily.

Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
To say infinity is merely a concept, is just about saying all words have no meaning or existence.

it is because we make it so by being here... does a cat ask or know infinity? if it is god? i think not...

And you think this why? I tend to think all other creatures are knowledgeable of infinity without the need to ask questions. I think they directly experience this, hence their lack of need to ask questions at all. They accept what is. We seem to be "flawed" in that we forgot infinity at some point, and are going in circles trying to find that which is already is right in front of us, so to speak.

infinity is not god.. infinity is you getting to grips with being alive. that is all..

I respectfully disagree. I don't think any amount of logic will sway either of us from our views. I've arrived at mine through intuitions, not pure logic. To each their own..

Very good thread OP, S&F for you. Unfortunately I think alot of what you're trying to say will go over alot of people, there don't seem to be as many free-thinking intellectuals on ATS anymore.

Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
right.. lets settle this using iinterlect not insults or whatever..

Sums up your position quite nicely actually.

Originally posted by dominicus
Plus it would mean that we are all united, we all make up Oneness ...so whatever you do to someone else your really doing to yourself as the whole.

My exact perspective.

To harm another IS to harm yourself.

Altruism is Selfish, not selfish.

At some point, one becomes so integrated with the whole, that the actions are instinctively/intuitively doing what is best for everyone. Without the need for any conscious thought.

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

- Jesus Christ (Revelations 22:12-13)


'Nuff Said!

You truly have a dizzying intellect.

At first I was going I was going to say that I didn't buy your logic. Now however I think you're on to something.

What if the intelligence is not an intelligence but a conciousness?

Something that does not necessarily think or reason. But a thing that reacts out of stimulus?

I've had a feeling for some time now. That if there is a God. God is something that is radically different from the notion we have of God.
I have the sneaky suspicion that God is not a single entity. But is made up from everything in the universe as a whole.
Much like a human body is made up of cells. God is made up of the whole entirety of existence. And that God is so vast and existent on multiple levels that God is incomprehensible to us with our limited point of view.

So maybe just maybe that when the bible says that God is within us all. What that really means that we are all within God as well in the literal sense. That we are all like cells within God. And as a whole we make up a part of God. Like a grain of sand on a beach sort of thing.

reply to post by warrenb


I've been saying for a very long time that everything is a point of view. I'm glad that someone else shares my point of view.

reply to post by spartacus mills


I do indeed know jack all, as you so elegantly put it. The difference is my ability to concede this fact, and your arrogance in assuming that your 'knowledge' of what infinity is, is absolute.

that is the point it is absolute by its nature... I do not KNOW if the universe is or is not infinite.. but i do know what the word infinity means... as a WORD..

its a unknow that has a counterpart.. a question they are infact both the same thing..

we can not measure infinity, just the same way you will never be able to with a quetion

there is no logical way to do so.. we can only get answers via questions and via infinity

That is the beauty of the beast..

I dont know everything nore do i pretend but i do know that infinity as a word is a question.

I did not call it a being or a thing or say it was alive in some self aware way did i??

we didnt even have the word when we was around as there was infact no need to use it..

Its a manifestation of the human mind that is unable to quatify its own existance...

infinity is you mearly asking why on earth we are here and the answers to infinity

Is or will be found in the universe

Yin.Yang

get use to it i did lol