Infinity is an existing being, self aware, mathematically proven....

Even randomness is a pattern. If randomness wasn't a pattern then we wouldnt be able to realize it was randomness and wouldnt be discussing it now, cause we wouldnt know what it is. Randomness is a pattern of randomness .....still a pattern

Not only that, but there is a whole branch of mathematics with equations, professors and theories that study the possibility of there being patterns and order in chaos. Even infinity ...see my signature by Georg Cantor, is studied and used by science.

If anything is random you might as well say the king of all randomness is infinity ....see infinity has to explore every possible possibility for its true nature to be infinite ....including order and chaos. But infinity itself is a design and is an intelligent idea (or reality which ever you prefer) ...and so by its own nature of having to explore every possible possibility including patterns and randomness .......it makes the subjects that it is exploring; patterns, and designs, and sets, and organizes them, and deorganizes them, and destructs them.

You would have to imagine this mentally and in the grand scheme of things down to every atom and wave in existence all the way up to every possible Universe and dimension and space that all of this is in to see that infinity exploring itself through every possible possibility is in fact designed to do so. It itself has to be intelligent to be able to explore itself through every possible possibility.

If infinity wasn't intelligent, then it would lack that one characteristic(intelligence) for it to be infinity.

If infinity wasn't self aware of itself, then it would lack that characteristic(self awareness) for it to be infinity.

If infinity wasn't a design, then it would lack that characteristic(design) for it to be infinity.

If infinity wasn't true and didnt exist, then it would lack that characteristic(truth and existence) for it to be infinity. Plus we wouldn't be discussing it here cause we wouldnt know what it is and we wouldnt be using it in math.

So it's intelligent by nature, and also by nature has to create every possible possibility so it can explore it. So it's also a creator.

This all just to say that everything I mentioned above, about infinity, has been, and is being studied by the smartest people in the world. And they have proof that infinity exists ....mathematical models proving it to be so.

So if infinity is proven to exist ...then what you think is randomness, is really a creation of infinity for it to explore.

And if that's so, then infinity has created a set of "randomnesses" that, themselves were designed just for the sake of infinity being able to explore them, to be them, so they can be part of infinity's characteristics.

Wrap your head around that for a few days using your logic and reason and you will find intelligence and design behind it all.

Yes by nature, if randomness is to be true and real, as mathematical models prove and as infinity would have to be a part of, then technically it, itself, would be wholly random.

But still randomness is a creation, came from somewhere, made by something, its the result of something. It leads back to an intelligence source.

So randomness is a pattern. Everything is a pattern. Even something that is no pattern ....is still a pattern of having no pattern-ness to it.

I would even go so far as to bet bank$$$ that this whole theory I just laid out before your eyes, that to me proves intelligent design, can be proven all mathematically with equations and calculators and college professors.

God can be proven mathematically, but somebody seeing the equations would only see equations ...they wouldnt be able to grasp their head around God ....just like we can't grasp our heads around infinity ...and yet we see the symbol all the time, especially in traffic .....when we see the symbol on the back of an infinity model car ....unaware that infinity is self-aware, intelligent, alive, breathing, being.

So you think our existence is all randomness and out of randomness came evolution??? That should show you right there that randomness itself is intelligent enough to allow it to bring forth a set of evolutions to continue to exist.

If you just set up a system of pure randomness, without intelligence, without awareness, without anything ...then it will always be randomness and will never change from that state.

But if you add to that intelligence, awareness, direction ...then you will inevitably get some form of evolution to spring up out of it.

That's why our existence has intelligence and design in it. If it didn't, there would be only randomness. We wouldnt be here, we wouldnt have evolution, we wouldnt have patterns, we wouldn't have design.

There originally was only randomness in the beginning ....but then I would go off and say that its all directed by Infinity and Infinity is self aware, intelligent, and designed.

Why?

Because for randomness to be true pure randomness(without any set value), it would have to be random infinitely. And for randomness to be random infinitely would require the existence of infinity.

Infinity proves randomness/chaos and randomness/chaos proves infinity.

no...no no no no noooooo

infinty is not a thing.. its a methord

its the result of you asking a question

There originally was only randomness in the beginning

wrong

[edit on 7-4-2009 by symmetricAvenger]

reply to post by dominicus


There is no mathematical definition of intelligence. Your title is a lie.

Let me try to interpret what the OP means...

The Universe is far too complex a system of matter and energy to NOT have developed intelligence. The odds against it happening are too slim.

Just as human kind developed consciousness when a critical amount of brain mass had evolved, so to should've the Universe developed consciousness in it's immensity.

Good luck solving for infinity,

Remember: the visible Universe is theorized to only be the size of a grain of sand on the whole Universe, relatively.

O-315

I don't like it when people just keep on beating around the bush, talking in circles, making things more complicated than necessary, and then making a false conclusion trying to sell it as proven fact. If you really want to discuss whatever it is you are trying to say then maybe you should start simple and tell us something that makes sense. So just to make myself CLEAR: What?

disregard this post.

[edit on 7-4-2009 by cancerian42]

no...no no no no noooooo infinty is not a thing.. its a methord its the result of you asking a question

To say "infinity is not a thing" already takes 1 thing away from infinity and you can't do that. It also has to be "a thing" for it to be infinity.

Yes you can also say its a method, but that limits infinity to your definition of "method."

"There originally was only randomness in the beginning"

wrong

Thats all you have to say is "wrong"???? Sorry but that wont cut it
_______________

There is no mathematical definition of intelligence. Your title is a lie.

That's impossible. There is already AI software that learns new things, and by having learned new things and using these teachings, is using a level of intelligence.

Obviously, to create AI software requires math and programming. SO there is definitely a mathematical definition of intelligence, or if they haven't found it yet, there are at least definitions that lead to the creation of intelligence; since AI software already exists.

So my title is not lie ......you simply have chosen, based on your defined set of knowledge, beliefs, likes/dislikes, to believe that this is lie ...even though through AI software I have quite easily proven you wrong friend.
_________

Let me try to interpret what the OP means...

Yeah, I was basing it more on the existence of infinity.

Although you are right. We are human beings that are self aware, and the Universe is billions if not zillions of years much older than us ....so how much more must the universe(s) be self aware than we are?

But this falls in line with Infinity.

Oh and by the way, there is a whole branch of mathematics called "infinite math," which pretty much proves the existence of Infinity, the way that many scientists used to come up with equations to experiments to see if they would work to prove theoretically that it would.

They have proven infinity works, only thing is to test it in a lab is impossible because we are all already part of the test, the lab is itself part of it, us as observers are all part of it

reply to post by cancerian42

I don't like it when people just keep on beating around the bush, talking in circles, making things more complicated than necessary, and then making a false conclusion trying to sell it as proven fact. If you really want to discuss whatever it is you are trying to say then maybe you should start simple and tell us something that makes sense. So just to make myself CLEAR: What?

Simple, infinity exists as a being, that is self aware of itself, is existing all around us, is intelligent, is creating and expanding itself and everything around it.

It can also be possible to contact infinity and experience infinity as this being. To see what infinity has to say, what it feels, how its feeling today, what it thinks about you and me, and this argument.

Its real and alive. Math proves it and the lab work is all of existence right before our eyes.

Originally posted by dominicus
Simple, infinity exists as a being, that is self aware of itself, is existing all around us, is intelligent, is creating and expanding itself and everything around it.

That sentence doesn't make much sense, since infinity is an idea and you might want to define what you mean by infinity anyways since there is negative infinity and positive infinity in mathematics. Or you could possibly be talking about both. Perhaps you are meaning to say that existence is infinite (never ending or maybe never ending and never beginning) and conscious. This subject is too broad not to be specific

reply to post by dominicus

To say "infinity is not a thing" already takes 1 thing away from infinity and you can't do that. It also has to be "a thing" for it to be infinity.

takes what away? lol?? if all is possible then infact me and you are both right and wrong as infinity is both?

It also has to be "a thing" for it to be infinity.

no its just you have to understand it...

Infinity is NOT a thing.. its a result of you being here..

Look, befor man was on earth there was no infinity.. ITS in YOUR HEAD.. why? well you asked the question didnt you? did the earth ask it? Nope did my cat ask it? Nope..

We are the only THING that understand what infinity is "some"

ITS THE QUESTION

INFINITY = the very question you ask.

understand learn and dont use mathmatics for your defence.

and yes you was wrong..and still are..

reply to post by dominicus

Simple, infinity exists as a being, that is self aware of itself

its not... its just you asking a question.....

do you even understand what infact a question is????? or how one can even eqaute it to infinity??

please understand this

a question is not 1 or 2 but it is the very thing that gives us 1 and 2

you see infinity IS a question manifested by your brain to try and understand WHY you are here,,,,

btw you are talking to someone who has dont mathmatics and alot of other mind bending things.. to understand this

INFINITY IS NOT ALIVE its only a RELFECTION of your OWN question of the UNIVERSE..

you question into infinity hence the name.

SYMMERTY look it up or take more math classes

how do you know infinity is just an idea? How does anyone know??

Im not gonna post any equations other than if you want to, you can look up Georg Cantor. Im basing this off his formulas. When I look at equations or math in general, I see it all as concepts, colors, cascades, sound waves ...a bunch of things.

Call it synesthesia or whatever you want. But when I look at Cantor's math and the infinity by itself, I get this grand sense of a being, all encompassing, never ending, self aware. I see this, sense it, feel it as tangible, not as some stupid thought or idea.

SO to give anyone equations to prove this all, has to be in conceptual sense< Im not a mathematician but I see numbers visually.
____________________

takes what away? lol?? if all is possible then infact me and you are both right and wrong as infinity is both?

Lets just stick with plain old infinity by itself. Negative infinity has to exist by nature of it being everything and encompassing everything, so there should also be purple infinity, liquidy infinity, hazy infinity, backwards infinity. But still all part of regular plain ol' original infinity.

Infinity is NOT a thing.. its a result of you being here..

Everything discovered in math has always been true, just waiting to be discovered by someone ...its not "true" cause I or you exist. 1+1= 2 before anyone existed. Infinity doesnt need anyone to exist to be infinity and to be real and tangible.

Look, befor man was on earth there was no infinity.. ITS in YOUR HEAD.. why? well you asked the question didnt you? did the earth ask it? Nope did my cat ask it? Nope..

see above

INFINITY = the very question you ask.

See above. Doesnt need us to exist itself, was already so before anyone was here. But being here we complete the formula of every possible possibility.

understand learn and dont use mathmatics for your defence. and yes you was wrong..and still are..

mathematics explains or can explain everything all of existence. The universe is mathematically elegant. So I can use it for my defense, albeit conceptually and pointing to those with the actual numbers for it, i.e. Cantor, Einstein, A.I. formauls, etc

So you still havent proven me wrong. Prove 1+1=2 wasnt true before we arrived and then perhaps all admit defeat.

you see infinity IS a question manifested by your brain to try and understand WHY you are here

I dont care about understanding why im here, matters not .... am trying to understand why infinity is an alive reality to me and not too many others see this as I do.

INFINITY IS NOT ALIVE its only a RELFECTION of your OWN question of the UNIVERSE.. you question into infinity hence the name. SYMMERTY look it up or take more math classes

Thats just what you think and the conclusion that you have come to. You were using logic and reason to crack the formulas......since I see infinity conceptually and without the confines of logic/reason/equations .....then to me its alive and everywhere and we are a part of it, and Pi is just one of the results, I also see there is an Anti-Pi going the other direction and they are somehow intertwined like DNA, but nobody has found negative Pi yet because it has to do with unexplored areas of mathematics.

right.. lets settle this using iinterlect not insults or whatever..

facts here

Infinity (symbolically represented by ∞) refers to several distinct concepts – usually linked to the idea of "without end" – which arise in philosophy, mathematics, and theology.[1] The word comes from the Latin infinitas or "unboundedness."

so what you are saying is infinity is a self aware being.. when infact the only reason we have infinity is because you do not understand why you are here

a question is INFINITY

how simple do you wish for me to make it? or shall we keep going?

btw im happy to keep going into infinity as that is the question correct?

Originally posted by dominicus
how do you know infinity is just an idea? How does anyone know??

The word "infinity" was created as a mathematical term I believe, meaning a never ending amount, basically. I would prefer it to mean never ending and never beginning, but whoever created the word evidently didn't think of that problem. So, I think it would be better if you would say existance rather than infinity, because infinity is an amount (it is like a number). You can't just say infinity is an existing being because infinity like numbers represents an amount of something. It's like saying 1 is an existing being. And saying "existing being" in itself is quite redundant since if it is a being then surely it is existent don't you think? This discussion could go on infinitely (you see how I use the word correctly) if you do not realize the flaw of what you are trying to communicate to us. We will never understand if you just keep on like this. Or maybe you don't want us to understand anyways-if that's it then I guess I just wasted my time. Oh and what does synesthesia have to do with anything? It doesn't really matter what you see, or hear, or feel about numbers, they are still just numbers-(ideas really).

reply to post by cancerian42


more or less what he said..

and he got a start coz his english is better than mine + he was being nice were i was being more direct

my own flaw i know but well thats just how i talk.. blame maths i do! hehe

when infact the only reason we have infinity is because you do not understand why you are here

That makes no sense. How can infinity be a byproduct of not understanding why im here. Thats like saying ice cream is good because rubber duckies are yellow.

Im sure the mathematician who first came up with and started using infinity in his equations came up with because he didnt understand his existence. Pun intended.

a question is INFINITY

That also makes no sense. A question is limited. Infinity is unlimited. You are now entering the realm of breaking logic, reason, concepts, sense, pretty much everything else. still luv ya tho

So, I think it would be better if you would say existence rather than infinity, because infinity is an amount (it is like a number).

I cant say "existence" because then that limits infinity which also pervades all concepts, thoughts, ideas, and non-existence. Infinity is everything possible and is all around us and we are its product. Quantum physics is no proving this little by little w/ dimensions and multi-verses, and findings in observations affecting experiments.

There also has to be a dimension where, you agree with this, and another one where I never wrote this, and another one where none of this exists, and another one where we all exist at the same time but were blue, etc.

You can't just say infinity is an existing being because infinity like numbers represents an amount of something.

You can't just say that Infinity is only a sum, because that would limit infinity.

Even if you say its only a sum or number .....well then it embraces every single number in existence and every single equation. Well we use equations to create bombs and reactions and real life things that are happening can be described by equations and numbers ...both of which infinity is a part of.

Every single second, our bodies are undergoing all sorts of reactions all explainable mathematically, all embraced by the ever underlying infinity. Hence its all around us, inside us all, we are all united by infinity, come from infinity and when we die we return to infinity, all of course mathematically explainable ...science just hasnt caught up yet.

It's like saying 1 is an existing being.

Yes one is an existing being, perhaps not as complete and exciting as inifinity....but it is a snapshot of infinity frozen in time.

So your existence is one, by yourself you are one, you are a snap shot of infinity that underlines all of us. And we are all different, so you might be 1.09872958725 and I am 1.0980938098 and so forth.

Its all conceptual and also represented in reality as well, all around us, our own existence is the proof.

And saying "existing being" in itself is quite redundant since if it is a being then surely it is existent don't you think?

I meant to say existing as a self aware being or entity, both integrally as part of us, frozen snap shots slowly evolving owing our being to infinity, and also infinity by itself with all snapshots included.

This discussion could go on infinitely (you see how I use the word correctly) if you do not realize the flaw of what you are trying to communicate to us. We will never understand if you just keep on like this.

words are limited by the readers perspective, age, education, insight etc. I am trying to figure out how to explain colors to a blind man, with all your insights and help. So bear with me.

We dont need infinite time to get to a breakthrough with all of this. I think we are progressing with this .......we are just thinking differently about it all, its getting limited to an idea or a thought and im trying to prove that infinity's existence is real beyond an idea and a thought. bear w/ me

jeez


How can infinity be a byproduct of not understanding why im here.

was infinity here befor you asked about it?

think about that befor you question your very ow question>..

btw i may type like crap but i have done mathmatics for 20 years...

so befor you argue your case understand the question your asking

you are infact saying INFINIYT is an enterty

when infact its NOT its IN UR MIND... and befor you quote me again quote this

WHY ARE YOU HERE

= infinity

or you can read a book ,,, dont matter to me really as im the one telling you infact you wrong

humans MADE infinity by the very nature of BEING alive.. its not something that was here befor humans

the very word itself was MADE by humans ffs its not a rock or a THING its a POSTULATION OF SOMETHING

ie A QUESTION

are you american?

symmetricavenger.....
You are right only as far as saying infinity is impossible without us.

Infinity is forever expanding and never ending, so for us to exist is part of infinity's unfolding of every possible possibility.

Was infinity here before I was here? Yes of course ......it was at that point of it's own evolution/unfolding/expanding before me, and at another point before any humans existed.

Infinity always was/is.

Before you answer my posts, at least try taking infinity out of the context of math/idea/concept as you are limiting it to.

you are infact saying INFINIYT is an enterty
when infact its NOT its IN UR MIND... and befor you quote me again quote this

WHY ARE YOU HERE
= infinity

yeah infinity is an eternity. We see this with relationship of time to gravity. The weaker the gravitational pull and the faster the motion of an abject away from this pull, the slower time passes.

So if we get as far as possible from all gravity we can virtually come to a time stand still, or a black hole.

So technically time is an illusion and does not exist. There is only eternity which exists for infinity. I understand what you are arguing but your argument is limited.

humans MADE infinity by the very nature of BEING alive.. its not something that was here befor humans

Us "being" alive doesn't make infinity. That limits infinity to rely solely on us. 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.and infinity expanding, has always existed regardless of us.

the very word itself was MADE by humans ffs its not a rock or a THING its a POSTULATION OF SOMETHING

You can have a postulation of a rock and also have a real rock. Im trying to show you here that you have the postulation of infinity and also there is a real infinity represented by the postulation. Your existence is part of infinity's expression

You are not seeing what I am because you are only limiting it to a sum and a postulation. Instead its everywhere right in front of you invisibale and manifest at the same time.

[edit on 7-4-2009 by dominicus]

symmetricAvenger:


Infinity is not simply a concept. It's not a product of a label. It is. Always has been. Always will be.

Infinity = God

Regardless of whether we recognize the existence of infinity/God, there is it's/her/his existence/non-existence.

To say infinity is merely a concept, is just about saying all words have no meaning or existence.

Just because one day, we decided to give our understanding of the cosmos a name, does not mean it is contained within the minds that recognize this.

Do you see thoughts as things?! I do. It's a bit confusing how some people think otherwise.

[edit on 7-4-2009 by unityemissions]

reply to post by unityemissions

Infinity is not simply a concept. It's not a product of a label. It is. Always has been. Always will be. Infinity = God Regardless of whether we recognize the existence of infinity/God, there is it's/her/his existence/non-existence. To say infinity is merely a concept, is just about saying all words have no meaning or existence. Just because one day, we decided to give our understanding of the cosmos a name, does not mean it is contained within the minds that recognize this. Do you see thoughts as things?! I do. It's a bit confusing how some people think otherwise.

Thank you unityemissions......... the whole time symetricavenger was trying to say im wrong ......and never himself realized he was limiting infinity to a postulation.

I'd rather hold a rock in my hand, smell it, weigh it, examine it, throw it around ...than to do the same with a postulation of a rock.

He must not realize some people are experiencing infinity