Infinity is an existing being, self aware, mathematically proven....

you keep saying it is a "being"...

why does it have to be a "being"?

the standard dictionary definition is that a being is a person.
see item #6 dictionary.reference.com...

You are giving humanistic qualities to this "supposed" infinity chaos randomness intelligence.

Regardless of what "some" so called mathematicians, physicists, etc; may believe they can prove, there are countless others in the same fields with data and results that point contrarily.

For instance, let's take black holes.

The idea of an object with gravity strong enough to prevent light from escaping was proposed in 1783 by John Michell, an amateur British astronomer. In 1795, Pierre-Simon Laplace, a French physicist independently came to the same conclusion.Black holes, as currently understood, are described by the general theory of relativity. This theory predicts that when a large enough amount of mass is present in a sufficiently small region of space, all paths through space are warped inwards towards the center of the volume, preventing all matter and radiation within it from escaping.

The term black hole to describe this phenomenon dates from the mid-1960s, though its precise origins are unclear. Physicist John Wheeler is widely credited with coining it in his 1967 public lecture 'Our Universe: the Known and Unknown', as an alternative to the more cumbersome "gravitationally completely collapsed star". However, Wheeler insisted that someone else at the conference had coined the term and he had merely adopted it as useful shorthand. The term was also cited in a 1964 letter by Anne Ewing to the AAAS.

Source(s):
en.wikipedia.org...

So what happened is that someone had an idea, created a theory to support the idea and eventually people said, hey sounds good. Once someone says its good, others take that theory and build from it, which results in more theories based on a perhaps flawed but accepted theory.

makes sense right?

So following that logic, let's view an alternative

There are no ‘black holes’, there is no ‘dark matter’, comets are not ‘dirty snowballs’, the sun is not a ‘nuclear furnace’, and the origins of world mythology are not primitive invention but can be directly linked to deep space exploration and leading-edge experiments in plasma physics.

let that sink in...take a breath

5,000 year old rock art, the origins of world mythology, planetary history, spectacular nebular forms in deep space, and high energy electric discharges in the plasma laboratory – all are inextricably linked by the Electric Model.

What does that mean?
What it means is that using our existing knowledge in electricity, we can use that real, tangible and provable math/physics; to test and explain all those aforementioned things. In turn giving us results that are "infinitely" more accurate than say those of the theories you discussed.

Your post also seemed to be quasi religious in nature, while perhaps unintentional; there nonetheless. To be blunt, needing to bring faith into a discussion to drive home an idea, is off putting to most "beings".



ps. watch this if your curious about the Electric Model. Quite a feast for the ol' brain muscles.

Google Video Link

[edit on 7-4-2009 by warrenb]

reply to post by warrenb

Awesomeness!!! I have never heard of that before, but it makes complete sense. Thanks for contributing such valuable information.

reply to post by warrenb

the standard dictionary definition is that a being is a person. see item #6 dictionary.reference.com...

we don't fully understand being ...or perhaps that definition is based on being aware of being. Whatever the case, I would even argue that most animals are aware of being, that they are, that they exist, consciousness.

That's what I mean by infinity "being" basically that 1, 2,3,4,5,6,7 by themselves aren't aware of anything, but combined with the whole of Infinity, the whole becomes aware of its own being. Of course I say this beyond Infinity being a mere postulation or idea of a sum.

We are all sums and every particle is a sum ....so infinity is alive and we are part of "it"

You are giving humanistic qualities to this "supposed" infinity chaos randomness intelligence.

Thats what im saying, Infinity would have to itself establish consciousness, self awareness, likes/dislikes, self evolution, for it to be able to give forth snap shots of itself.....so it can then experience these snapshots as snapshots of itself ....both unaware of infinity and aware of infinity(we exist as a result of every possible possibility having to be explored). The possibility of humans to exist from the stupidest to the smartest, from the least aware to the most aware.

Regardless of what "some" so called mathematicians, physicists, etc; may believe they can prove, there are countless others in the same fields with data and results that point contrarily. For instance, let's take black holes.

Thats what Im saying though is that all data, numbers, results are combinations of fragments of the whole of infinity. Then add to that our limited awareness of the whole ...then its easy to put forth a interesting and groundbreaking formula that everyone jumps aboard on and creates a whole movement around.

Then when someone comes along to prove it all false ....to me its simply that the originator didnt take into account every possible possibility of that set of fragments(numbers) to account for the theory to be rock solid....whereas somebody else did and unfortunately it failed.

I can put E=mc² for example. To me, Einstein wrestled with this with as much of the whole of infinity he could muster before he released this into the world. Its still fascinating to me, and he regretted that he released. WHo knows ...perhaps someone will disprove it one day, or perhaps it will stand the test of time.

What it means is that using our existing knowledge in electricity, we can use that real, tangible and provable math/physics; to test and explain all those aforementioned things. In turn giving us results that are "infinitely" more accurate than say those of the theories you discussed.

Im with you so far ...but to say "infinitely more"....... thats a problem ...a paradox..... infinity is already everything and never ending expansion, so to have something be infinitely more........ everything already is existing as an aspect of infinity. But I'll roll with your punches.

Your post also seemed to be quasi religious in nature, while perhaps unintentional; there nonetheless. To be blunt, needing to bring faith into a discussion to drive home an idea, is off putting to most "beings".

yes it is unintentional .... i dont know where I ever threw in the word faith anywhere in any of my posts. Im going by, we either know, don't know, or we are on the verging of one of the two. Let us throw faith completely out the window on this one.

The electrical model is cool and profound ......but what Im saying is this:

Infinity is mathematically proven to be a intangible sum/postulate, tho it is intangible, it works in all equations that it is appropriately used in.

Numbers: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8....... are much more tangible graspable sums all of proven mathematically to exist ...heck a child can add an apple to another one and see and know there are two.

Im saying 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8....... proves that tangibly infinity exists as real as 2 apples on a childs desk exists.

Just like E=mc² is a mathematical model that we can take into the lab and prove its truth, atomic bombs, energy transfer, etc ......all the aspects of this formula are fragments of infinity and this formula works in the real world so infinity as a byproduct has to be present.

Even your electrical model is proven using numbers (which are simply snapshots of infinity) giving "infinity being alive" a much stronger argument with every mathematical discovery that comes along only seems to strengthen what I am saying.

The video is showing discoveries being "pieces of a puzzle" that's the same thing with electricity and the electric model ..... they are all snapshots of infinity ...pieces of the puzzle = fragments of infinity. No difference

reply to post by dominicus

So what you're trying to say is that "infinity" (all possibilities) is like a god (omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent being) and we are all limited humans (how disgusting) that only have "pieces" of "infinity" worked out, right? Any proof for your assumptions?

reply to post by cancerian42


Why would you think it disgusting to admit that we are in fact, quite limited in what we fully know?

We know next to nothing.

We are capable of sensing less than .01 percent of the universe in our current state, and through the 5 accepted senses.

I find it to be no more than arrogance to think we're not very, very limited as human beings.

Is my interpretation of your thoughts off?

reply to post by unityemissions


how do you expierience infinity?

Originally posted by Boredinjail
reply to post by unityemissions

 

how do you expierience infinity?

Complete acceptance of what is. You've gotta let go of everyone and everything.

I first experienced infinity as a child. Many hours of meditation got me to this experience.

All thoughts are viewed, and allowed to pass as shooting stars.

Thoughts become sounds, become flashes of light, until all that is left is blinding light.

Then you are close.

Beyond this, I can't explain.

You just gotta have the experience.

BTW, 1 line posts are frowned upon by the staff. You may want to edit your post to add another or two, just so you don't get into any trouble...

[edit on 7-4-2009 by unityemissions]

reply to post by cancerian42

So what you're trying to say is that "infinity" (all possibilities) is like a god (omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent being) and we are all limited humans (how disgusting) that only have "pieces" of "infinity" worked out, right? Any proof for your assumptions?

Is infinity complete without the number 1 or the number 2 or 3 or so on? Also is number 1 complete by itself and represents the whole????

I would say no to both of them, they rely on each other, like an ocean is a whole by itself but has all this trillions of waves each different hitting the shore at different times, only to return back into the whole.

I don't know if Infinity is God. It would make sense though, no religion, no arguing, no dogma ....just the simple naked truth all right there staring you in the face minus all the baggage and drama. Or maybe if God is real, Infinity is just one aspect of God ..... all speculations of God of course.

Would that really be that disgusting???? To be frozen moments of infinity, then unfreeze and merge back with the whole when necessary. Sounds like a roller coaster ride. Plus it would mean that we are all united, we all make up Oneness ...so whatever you do to someone else your really doing to yourself as the whole.

The only proof Im giving is for Infinity existing in reality ...not just a mere postulation/theory. It has to exist because mathematical formulas prove scientific facts and math uses numbers, sums, fragments of infinity to prove facts.

Technically, the right combination of infinity fragments proves another aspect of infinity; A mathematical formula proves a scientific fact.

how do you expierience infinity?

You have to lose your sense of separation from all things. We are all united in existence, being, we "are" so perhaps merge with that aspect of "being" of "is".

So the number 1 is a snapshot of the all ...just someone looking at 1 fragment. So a person can look beyond one's self and start to re-unfiy with all things. If infinity is real and underlying all things ...then it has to provide a way for us to experience it ...as by its nature there have to be those that dont experience reality and those that do as well as thos just on the verge of experiencing it.

Loss of sense of self in some strange way ....I personally feel like its within me and then existing all around me and inside of all things. Its like air ...there is nowhere I can go that there is no air .....at least in my immediate natural surroundings.

You've gotta let go of everyone and everything.

Yeah ...like no attachments. Just be, just let go and it should start to reveal itself somehow. We are not our thoughts, we are not our likes dislikes, are we this body, or we consciousness? are we our personalities? What aspect of myself is the same as everyone else and everything else ...maybe somehow self inquiry into what you are and what you're not would reveal infinity present.

Beyond this, I can't explain. You just gotta have the experience.

Yeah thats what it comes down to .....beyond words...... anything that you say that infinity is, limits infinity to that word and perception of that word.

So you have to somehow experience this or an aspect of this infinity to know that exists ...and even then your experience will be just a glimpse and more of it ...but still not all of it .......

Wow this is crazy!!!!!

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by cancerian42

 

Why would you think it disgusting to admit that we are in fact, quite limited in what we fully know?

Sorry, I forgot sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet, but it is a rather pessimistic way of looking at humanity. I do not really think it is disgusting that humans are stupider than they (the arrogant ones) like to think...it's just their nature after all, but I did sense that you felt this way. I am fine without knowing anything (other than my own experiences) and don't claim to. Those who claim to know something, they are the arrogant ones. The only thing I believe to be undeniably true (to myself) is my existence. Now, I wouldn't really say I am limited in what I know, since nothing outside of what I do know is undeniably true then it's all irrelevant. I would say knowledge is not even a thing to be measured since it is always perceived.

We know next to nothing.

speak for yourself.

We are capable of sensing less than .01 percent of the universe in our current state, and through the 5 accepted senses.

And I bet that statistic is probably even flawed.

I find it to be no more than arrogance to think we're not very, very limited as human beings.

I find it to be no more than pessimistic to think that we are not very, very gifted to be alive and yes, there are some people who feel ungrateful for the fact and have to find meaning through perceived intelligence quotients, but I guess they can do whatever they want.

Originally posted by dominicus
Is infinity complete without the number 1 or the number 2 or 3 or so on? Also is number 1 complete by itself and represents the whole????

Very confusing. numbers (ideas) have nothing to do with infinity (a separate idea). Numbers describe amounts...we have 10 fingers, 10 is used to describe how many. Infinity is a little different, it is an abstract thought meaning without number, never ending (for + or - infinity that is), and uncountable, therefore numbers are irrelevant. Your second question seems even more confusing. The number 1 is a number, I'm not sure what you mean by complete or representing the whole?

The only proof Im giving is for Infinity existing in reality ...not just a mere postulation/theory. It has to exist because mathematical formulas prove scientific facts and math uses numbers, sums, fragments of infinity to prove facts.

I would like to see any formulas or what have you and explanations for this thing you call "infinity" existing in reality.

reply to post by warrenb

But the electric-universe 'theory' is bunk.

It has no science behind it. Yes, I know about Birkeland currents and all the rest. I repeat: electric universe is not a scientific theory.

Dominicus, there are no infinite quantities in nature. None whatsoever. Infinity doesn't exist. It is just a mathematical fiction.

As for 'infinity' being intelligent, self-aware, etc... forget it.

regardless of whether *infinity* is a 'who' or a 'what'...

it seems to me that randomness is really only the result of limited perspective viewing that which is unlimited

in other words, what SEEMS to be random is merely a portion of a pattern which would be apparent if more of the picture could be seen by the viewer

reply to post by queenannie38

Nothing is ever random. Randomness does not exist because everything has a cause.

To say infinity is merely a concept, is just about saying all words have no meaning or existence.

it is because we make it so by being here... does a cat ask or know infinity? if it is god? i think not...

infinity is not god.. infinity is you getting to grips with being alive. that is all..

God on the other hand.. well he made them both me you and infinity lol

very smart chap ; ) or chapess! lol

reply to post by dominicus


symmetricavenger.....
You are right only as far as saying infinity is impossible without us.

I rest my case...

Originally posted by cancerian42
reply to post by queenannie38

 

Nothing is ever random. Randomness does not exist because everything has a cause.

that is what i'm saying!


randomness is an illusion created by the inability to see the *whole* picture at any given time

randomness has nothing to do with cause and effect
random is defined as: 'Having no specific pattern, purpose, or objective.'

reply to post by queenannie38


lol totaly agree with u queeny

but look at this important statement:

infinity is impossible without us.

its a no brainer... infinity as in regards to what? someones own ego? someones point of view?

this guy is telling me infinity is a "being" when infact the only reason you dont understand the word you think you do is the very same reason you are here..

And may i point out something.. You like me will DIE yes i know its sad but people do infact die.. and what happens then? who knows.. what happened befor you was infact alive? who knows

Infinity was not ALWAYS here.. this is the biggest duuuhh iv read.. why?

well look at the facts.. the reason for the very word is our compleate LACK of understanding.. BOUNDLESSNESS

do you understand what that means?? IT MEANS YOU HAVE NO CLUE you can not possibly IMAGEN WHY you are here

read it againg : infinity is impossible without us.

GET THAT? THE ONLY REASON WE HAVE IT IS BECUASE WE ARE CLUELESS as to WHY we are here

THAT is mathmatical THAT is why we have it THAT is why people think about GOD..

its the QUESTION in relation to UNDERSTANDING.. look at my sig..

YOU are the REASON for EVERY SINGLE QUESTION YOU ASK not god not the universe not nothing

JUST YOU... the universe does not ask questions HUMANS DO

some people really need to work on the QUESTION... and understand they are allllllll linked

VIA YOU

That's not necessarily true. In Quantum Mechanics there are things that are inherently random.

See Bell's theorem too:
en.wikipedia.org...

No physical theory of local hidden variables can ever reproduce all of the predictions of quantum mechanics.

There are also results in mathematics that are 'random'. Ie, they cannot be decided beforehand with a clever technique, they need to be computed explicitly.
plus.maths.org...

reply to post by science lol


only to ones lack of understanding...

This statement is ture in regards only to our lack of understanding..

If you was to look at a symmetric shape would it be random? Yes

same with quatom P.. its not random we just dont understand its patten.. but we will

we will becuase thats our job..

we are here to make the universe self replicate.. as all things in nature do>>

do you think for one seconed our universe is not self replicating?

look at the evidence.. the univer is ALIVE and it wants to self replicate and we are its baby

LIFE is the universe giving birth to itself

have a nice day

Originally posted by symmetricAvenger

lol totaly agree with u queeny

but look at this important statement:

infinity is impossible without us.

if there is no one in the forest when the tree falls, does it make a sound?



the way i see it, and this is just my own opinion, infinity is a characteristic of timespace and consciousness is that which perceives timespace

so yes, for infinity to be called infinity, it must be viewed by a consciousness which is finite in either time or space or both

to a mind totally unfettered by such limits, then there would be no infinity because there would be lacking any idea or experience of 'finite.'