Support Abortion? Watch this video and please defend your decisions...

Originally posted by Missing Blue Sky
Well, babies are not nonthinking blobs of tissue. My newborns had reflexes to loud sounds and light and that is in the first 24 hrs, even my premature baby...so they so have reflexes-because they have a nervous system. It is one of the first things that develops. This is natures way of protecting the species, to react to stimuli around it.

I have a child as well, I know how babies are. Reacting to loud noise and bright light, and comprehending a threat and knowing how to evade it are TWO different things. You can scare the hell out of a cockroach with loud noise and bright lights too, doesn't mean it is a person and knows it is about to die, therefore being frightened of its impending death like this video TRIES to portray. It's a cockroach running on the most basic instinct.

You really do deny the fetus is a person don't you? Once the egg is fertlized it is alive and it is on a journey to death...that is what we call a life.

A fetus is a person in the fetal stages, yes. And I never said fetuses weren't alive. Do you consider a cockroach a life? What about lettuce? Both also come from an egg or seed being fertilized. I bet you'd squash a cockroach pretty quick. You're a hypocrite most likely, and probably only consider human life to be valuable. I value all life, but realize not all life is going to survive as long as myself due to the very nature of our planet. You try and use super blown out of proportion, purely emotional arguments and try and portray anybody who sees differently as somebody who LOVES abortion and hate babies. I say F off.

Originally posted by 27jd


I cut it at 1980, cuz anything after that is the baby boomers' faults, according to you...

*Sigh* aaah yeah,, those,, were the good ole days.

I think you made his point for him guy, and your post proves you wrong.

do you know what side of the argument you're on?

Cuz I sure as hell can't tell

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Ha ha WoW, let me guess, you are the "logical one" and why? Because it isn't murder if a baby doesn't know something is a threat and doesn't know what hit him so??

Yeah, jeez, who would imagine using logic to form an opinion.

I know that word is awkward and uncomfortable for people like yourself.

You know how effective that defense would have been had Jack Ruby not killed Oswald so he could stand trial and say "What? he didn't know what hit him! He wasn't even aware the street he was driving down was going to get him killed! so it's not like I commited murder."

Right right. An unborn fetus and the sitting President of the United States, there's a comparison.

Like I said, it never ceases to amaze me the tortuerously construed alibi's and excuses people come up with to commit such a grisley act.

Are you saying I perform abortions?? I'm confused, I work in an office.

I would think doing such a thing would make people who attempt to make them aware of how incidious it is would be hated by them.

Are you saying I hate you, or you hate me? I don't hate any of you if you are saying the former, I simply tell judgemental fanatics to F off.

Originally posted by Aermacchi
I think you made his point for him guy, and your post proves you wrong.

How is that?

do you know what side of the argument you're on?

I think I've made that clear. I personally would not want an abortion, but I'm a man and cannot have one anyway, so it's easy to say that. I think later term, when the brain has developed further, abortion should not be an option, if a woman makes the unfortunate and hopefully difficult decision to terminate a pregnancy she should do so early in development, since it has not yet fully formed into a self aware human being.

Cuz I sure as hell can't tell

Good. Then I've effectively made my point, I have no desire to be on either side.

reply to post by 27jd


every living thing and living organism possesses a prime directive. It needs no experience it needs no frame of refrence. It is inate it has been studied and is undeniable. Babies know a mothers voice from hearing it from the womb, they also know when a foriegn object is impaling their arms legs chest and skull. They may not know what it is or who is doing it but they know their lives are in grave danger. They cry scream and recoil in pain. If you don't think crying and screaming and recoiling or watching twins trying to get behind the other twin.

The directive?

SURVIVE

Originally posted by jd140
The child maybe unwanted by the mother, but there are many out there who would love to adopt a newborn. If there is not a health risk to the mother what is the harm in adoption?

LOL! You're kidding, right? Sure, there are plenty that want WHITE - BLUE EYED - BLOND - FULLY FORMED babies.

Have you looked at the gazillions of NON-WHITE babies out there awaiting adoption? THEY are not being adopted except at a very slow pace...MUCH slower than they are being born at.

Originally posted by Aermacchi

You got a problem with that?

Boy howdy I sure do! Lots of children get separated from their families and grow up in and out of foster homes and institutions because someone said "I don't like the way you're raising your child."

Isn't Humanity Civilized!

Yes, we are. Pragmatic, too.

What's your point?

My point is that, historically, human society and civilization have always valued the adult over the infant.

quoteYou ever have an 18 year old come up to you and say "Thank you" , not knowing who they are, you say: For what?

Awwww. Can everybody say AWWWW??

What a sweet mushy story. Would you like to hear mine? It's all about a woman who spent 40+ years of her life wishing she had never been born because of childhood abuse, PTSD, and mental illnesses that resulted from being raised by a "mother" who never wanted her and hated her.

Why? Because in that day and that place abortion was illegal, and my mother was trapped in a loveless marriage with a man who prohibited her from using birth control and then left her when the child turned out to be a GIRL. I WISH that my mother could have gotten an abortion instead of just trying stuff that didn't work until finally she tried to kill both of us in a suicide attempt and had to be restrained and watched until after I was born.
Abortion would have saved both my mother and I years of pain and suffering and misery.

Your turn to say "AWWWW!"

what gives me the right? I DO!

Yeah? Well, if you assume the right to tell me what to do on your own authority, don't be surprised if I respond with my form of authority -
a 9mm.

Oh Ill take my chances with that one,

You haven't been paying much attention to the abuses of the DHS system, have you? I know someone who got their kids taken away because two little girls (aged 4 and 6) were sleeping in the same bed.

No it isn't

Not YET, it isn't. And couldn't you comprehend that I was using examples of what could happen in the future, not what has already happened?

YES, I had an abortion. My one and only pregnancy was a tubal. If they hadn't removed it, I would have died along with the "child."

You have no idea who you're talking to, and you have no right to assume judgment over my life.

I thought somebody told me that God said: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I think that means don't be so hard on other people unless you're perfect. Are you perfect?


[edit on 26-3-2009 by Heike]

Originally posted by seb2882
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

I don't believe in any God other than my own beliefs. It's simple empathy with another living creature.

Ah. Fair enough. I presume you don't eat meat? Or vegetables? Or anything you have to kill?

I don't believe in any dogma myself, but I find the words of these "Gods" to offer a good benchmark. Given that unwanted children have a very high rate of sociopathy and psychopathy, what's wrong with using that as a benchmark so as to reduce the percentage of ill-equipped humans in our society?

I am personally against abortion for anything but extenuating circumstances but I also acknowledge my moral ruler is not universal.

My problem is and has always been that a needless abortion is taking a human life and murdering it because it is inconvient, the woman does not wish to take responsibility for her actions, once again just in my opinion. Which is a piss poor reason to murder someone. The act of sex is naturally for procreation and the whole reason it feels good is so that we will do it, which is why it's one of our favorite past times, it has consequences since that is what it is for. And of course we have tons of people that believe that they should be exempt from any consequences and would murder if that is what it took to avoid it and then call it their right to choose.
Which is really hypocritical if you think about it and take into consideration that they are here because someone else stepped up to the plate.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Jason, if you are so set against abortion, then you surely must understand the advantages of sterilizaton.
What you really want to do is control people's sex lives.

reply to post by OhZone


I am sorry but how do you get that he wants to control people's sex lives?
This second line is pretty.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

the woman does not wish to take responsibility for her actions, once again just in my opinion.

I find it interesting that you only mention the woman. Do men have no accountability in your world?

Originally posted by Aermacchi
every living thing and living organism possesses a prime directive. It needs no experience it needs no frame of refrence. It is inate it has been studied and is undeniable. Babies know a mothers voice from hearing it from the womb, they also know when a foriegn object is impaling their arms legs chest and skull. They may not know what it is or who is doing it but they know their lives are in grave danger. They cry scream and recoil in pain. If you don't think crying and screaming and recoiling or watching twins trying to get behind the other twin.

The directive?

SURVIVE

I think you're referring to late term abortion in your very descriptive and assumptive post. I already said I don't think that should be an option, although I say again it's BS that a fetus knows to HIDE BEHIND IT'S SIBLING to avoid death. You are saying you know what they know, but you don't. You have no idea unless you've spoken to an unborn fetus. It's BS, plain and simple. Yes everything has a directive, once it is self aware. But as others have said, you probably eat meat. If so you're a hypocrite, the animals we eat are self aware and do feel fear and terror along with the directive to survive. But we eat them anyway, it is the nature of this planet. Do you support ANY war? If so, you're a hypocrite. Many children die in war, and they are self aware and afraid. But I'll bet you justify it somehow, because the same people that are against choice, are usually by demographic supportive of war. Again, HYPOCRITES.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


Um, considering the man does not have the final say in such matters, what do you think? Sure, he can attempt to influence the decision but the decision in the end is totally the woman's.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


But he made the decision to have sex as well so why do you put the responsability of the child on the woman?

Remember you stated this: "the woman does not wish to take responsibility for her actions"

The baby is the result of two people's actions.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
It's ignorant and pathetic to defend an un-born baby's life?

I bet you are glad that no one felt that way about you.

What science defends the horror of the pro-abortion argument?
Based on your join date, I doubt I have had the pleasure of seeing this debate come from you...

You have your facts and "we" have ours.

Please let the mothers decide what they want to do.

I for one do not support people like octomom and wish in many cases, instead of feeding off of the society, get an abortion. But she is pro-life...

OR, the selfish teenagers who get pregnant and get an abortion, not thinking about the harm they have done themselves and the stupidity of going through such an act.

BOTH have goods and bads. But in the end, when the poor gets punished (and yes, having an "unwanted" kid [no excuse for it] could be an example) it is the good who have to pay...and I do not want to pay for some scumbags mistakes.

There should be some sort of STUPID tax on abortions though. Shouldn't become the new birth control at all.

I am not pro-abortion. I am pro-choice, which is a combination of that and pro-life.

Now, unless you want to take in the unwanted babies and care for them yourselves, SHUT UP. Even then...SHUT UP.

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


How do you reconcile taking a human life and calling it a choice? Especially considering the act that made that life was not something that was forced on that person? It is not set in stone that every so called "unwanted" child is going to become a drain on society and it's rather disengenious to assume so I would like to add.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


But also like I said and is apparently not being comprehended or outright ignored. The choice to is ultimately SOLELY the woman's. Unless men have some super secret ability of mind control I did not get told about.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


1. Some pregnancies do result in unwanted sexual activity, such as rape or manipulative situations. So the sex is not always the woman's choice.

2. I'll pose to you the same question I asked Viral: Many anti-abortion people I know are conservatives who are against multiple forms of Welfare. Are you for Welfare? Are you for paying more for Welfare in taxes? The truth of the matter is all of these unwanted babies being born is going to cost a lot of money, they're going to end up in all kinds of foster care situations as well, and eventually we'll be paying for a good chunk of them who will be in and out of the prison system.

At the end of the day money isn't what is important though, raising a healthy human being is, but with without abortion millions more of unwanted children will be fighting against all the odds for a good life, and many will not succeed, many will not have the parental guidance they need to succeed. I ask anyone who is pro-life if they are willing to be a foster care parent for the rest of their lives. Are they willing to adopt? Are they willing to take any responsibility for the mass of unwanted children they wish to see brought into the world? If so then I believe your heart is in the right place, even if I disagree with you. If not, there’s no way your pro-life argument will ever gain any traction. It’s easy to say life is important and should be protected no matter what, what’s hard is showing that you actually believe this by supporting people’s lives once they get here.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

The choice to is ultimately SOLELY the woman's.

Yes the woman gets the choice because she is the one used as an incubator. However the man ALREADY made a choice, which you seem to be ignoring or not comprehending. If a man in the US has sex with a woman he knows the law, he knows that if he for instance has unprotected sex with her that it is ultimately her choice to abort or not and it is his responsability to help care for the child if she decides to keep it. Men have a choice, they can keep it in their pants or they can have sex knowing full well what that entails if accidents happen.


[edit on 26-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]