Support Abortion? Watch this video and please defend your decisions...

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


It doesn't matter,although i have seen such videos before.No person nor government should have the right to force a woman to abide by only one option when it comes to this matter.Its simply abhorent,and if they did we all know what the scenario would be anyway.Back-alley abortions which already kill tens of thousands of woman a year because of OTHER people making the decision for the woman and forcing them into such a dire situation.

I have a shocker here, what if a manipulative female gets pregnant to get a guy, should he not be intitled to an abortion?

reply to post by skeptic1

There is no consensus on when "life" begins.

I'm afraid you are wrong about that, but I might as well argue with you as to whether or not the sun is hot. It is a biological fact. Ask your Biology teacher.
But that isn't really what I was arguing to begin with. You said:

The only thing that will ever settle this argument is when science comes to a concensus and declares the moment life begins.....and society agrees with it. Until then, there is no chance at a viable solution.

That isn't the argument at all because there is scientific consensus that it does begin at fertilization. It couldn't happen before that.

Fertilization: Fertilization is the process of combining the male gamete, or "sperm," with the female gamete, or "ovum." The product of this combination is a cell called a zygote. from medterms.com

Egg - Sperm - new life. Get it?

So that isn't really the debate. The debate is around arguments like these:

Pro Life

1. Since life begins at conception, abortion is akin to murder as it is the act of taking human life. Abortion is in direct defiance of the commonly accepted idea of the sanctity of human life

2. No civilized society permits one human to intentionally harm or take the life of another human without punishment, and abortion is no different.

3. Adoption is a viable alternative to abortion and accomplishes the same result. And with 1.5 million American families wanting to adopt a child, there is no such thing as an unwanted child.


4. An abortion can result in medical complications later in life; the risk of ectopic pregnancies doubles, and the chance of a miscarriage and pelvic inflammatory disease also increases.

5. In the instance of rape and incest, proper medical care can ensure that a woman will not get pregnant. Abortion punishes the unborn child who committed no crime; instead, it is the perpetrator who should be punished.

6. Abortion should not be used as another form of contraception.

7. For women who demand complete control of their body, control should include preventing the risk of unwanted pregnancy through the responsible use of contraception or, if that is not possible, through abstinence.


8. Many Americans who pay taxes are opposed to abortion, therefore it's morally wrong to use tax dollars to fund abortion.

9. Those who choose abortions are often minors or young women with insufficient life experience to understand fully what they are doing. Many have lifelong regrets afterwards.

10. Abortion frequently causes intense psychological pain and stress.

Pro-Choice

1. Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester, when a fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity as it cannot exist outside her womb.

2.The concept of personhood is different from the concept of human life. Human life occurs at conception, but fertilized eggs used for in vitro fertilization are also human lives and those not implanted are routinely thrown away. Is this murder, and if not, then how is abortion murder?

3. Adoption is not an alternative to abortion, because it remains the woman's choice whether or not to give her child up for adoption. Statistics show that very few women who give birth choose to give up their babies - less than 3% of white unmarried women and less than 2% of black unmarried women.

4. Abortion is a safe medical procedure. The vast majority of women - 88% - who have an abortion do so in their first trimester. Medical abortions have less than 0.5% risk of serious complications and do not affect a woman's health or future ability to become pregnant or give birth.

5. In the case of rape or incest, forcing a woman made pregnant by this violent act would cause further psychological harm to the victim. Often a woman is too afraid to speak up or is unaware she is pregnant, thus the morning after pill is ineffective in these situations.

6. Abortion is not used as a form of contraception. Pregnancy can occur even with responsible contraceptive use. Only 8% of women who have abortions do not use any form of birth control, and that is due more to individual carelessness than to the availability of abortion.

7. The ability of a woman to have control of her body is critical to civil rights. Take away her reproductive choice and you step onto a slippery slope. If the government can force a woman to continue a pregnancy, what about forcing a woman to use contraception or undergo sterilization?

8. Taxpayer dollars are used to enable poor women to access the same medical services as rich women, and abortion is one of these services. Funding abortion is no different from funding a war in the Mideast. For those who are opposed, the place to express outrage is in the voting booth.

9. Teenagers who become mothers have grim prospects for the future. They are much more likely to leave of school; receive inadequate prenatal care; rely on public assistance to raise a child; develop health problems; or end up divorced.

10. Like any other difficult situation, abortion creates stress. Yet the American Psychological Association found that stress was greatest prior to an abortion, and that there was no evidence of post-abortion syndrome.

Ten Arguments For Abortion and Against Abortion

reply to post by Solomons


I know abortions will be around. I would like to live in a society where life was so cherished that people would never even consider it an option, only if the mother's life was in grave danger. Like Mother Teresa said: "something is wrong with America when mothers are killing their babies." Human life is growing cheaper by the day.

Abortions are so so common. I heard that approximately the same number of babies are aborted every day as were killed in the terrorist acts on 9/11. That is crazy.

I really don't see how someone could actually go through with the act. From what I understand it is invasive, inhumane, and the side affects that the women has to deal with afterward is horrible. Well it may be that some women do not want to have a baby forced upon them at inopportune times in their life's, but it is denying a human being the opportunity from being human.

Read this and tell me abortion is easy...

www.cirtl.org...

I'm sorry it took so long to get back, but I was at work...

To answer a few questions, and to rebut a few statements, I will start by pointing out a couple of things.

1) I never brought religion into this.
2) I only asked that if you SUPPORTED abortion, to please view the video and comment.
3) I asked for a defense of the video's content, in relation to the your own personal views.

So, most of you have attacked me, assumed things, and told me how useless my argument is.

I am pro-life, pro-choice.

What does that mean? It means that I swore to uphold the constitution, and the law of the land, no matter my disagreement. Secondly, I am a man, and therefore incapable of understanding the complexities of a pregnancy; therefore I cannot really tell a woman what she can/cannot do with hers. Third, it means that I find that every life is unique, and I will do what I can to stem the tide of abortion.

I think that this video is what every person who wants a second trimester video should watch. I think that sometimes we can forget just how much of a baby that "fetus" really is.

But more importantly, we need to stop making this choice based on "extreme" examples. It is so easy to get inflamed about some poor twelve year old who was raped by her father. I can't imagine having to go through something like that.
What I can say, with pretty good certainty, is that those abortions make up a tiny portion of the overall total.

So what abortion has really become is a seemingly zero-consequence act to fix a "problem".
We live in a society where everyone KNOWS what causes a pregnancy to happen.
We have condoms, birth control of all types (pills, shots, etc.) and other contraceptives to help limit the odds. We also have the morning after pill, the morality of which I have not really considered.
What the problem really comes down to, is that people are engaging in sex before they can handle the consequences. Why is that so hard to figure out?
PLEASE, for just a second, forget your extreme examples.
If teenagers cannot use proper protection, they might need less sex, and more emphasis on other aspects of relationships.

In many cases, and I speak from experience, Abortion is a get-out-of-jail-free card, less the trauma they don't yet realize they are in for.

I think the country we live in turns out great people from all walks of life, and that life in this country is therefore even more precious.

I just want someone to explain how they can TRULY abort something that responds the way the video portrays it. Don't hide behind extremes, or cop-outs. Let's just answer the Life question.

You know, the one destroyed in that video?

I don't want to condone murder.
Let's just wait till the baby commits a terrible crime, then kill it.

That way it's legal and justifiable.

- Lee

reply to post by Solomons


Just a question...
Where are the stats to support your whole "tens of thousands" of back alley abortions?
Maybe I'll google that. Were you talking about other countries?

Maybe we should focus on getting a consensus for what defines "ready" to accept responsibility for our actions, and then try and keep those who are unable to do so from being inundated with the subject of sex all the time.

This is about accepting responsibility for our actions, and making better decisions before hand. Of course, your extreme examples notwithstanding.

And single/teen mothers aren't treated nearly the same as they were when Roe v Wade was passed, so I don't think previous trends would support whatever stat you want to make up.

im not going to watch the video.

abortion is a good thing.

if you had a daughter, age 9. she is raped by someone is who a mentally unstable pedophile. she is now pregnant. your telling me you want her to have that baby?

oh...haha, im sorry, it was god that made him rape your daughter. i was confused there. my mistake.

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agree'd people should be held accountable. but lets think about this.

you are a 19year old student. you are 15,000$ in debt for your first year of schooling. you only make 20,000$ a year.

oh # your now pregnant. if you want to raise that child right. you are going to have to pay atleast 20,000$ a year. (rough estimate) on the baby alone.

you dont have rich parents or family.
you now have to drop out of school inorder to keep you and the baby from starving.

hmmm... no baby...or the chance of a starving baby... which is really the most detrimental choice?

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how can you kill something that knows nothing? just because it has a beating heart does not make it alive.

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make sure you protesting emergency births where 1 child is chosen to die inorder to save the other.

make sure you make those parents choose the 10% chance both infants survive, with the 90% chance both will die.

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yay for tangents

[edit on 25-3-2009 by 30 Seconds]

it just amazes me that liberals believe in pro choice for abortion, but they dont believe in capital punishment of murderers. just amazes me.

Originally posted by skeptic1
reply to post by jasonjnelson

 

You are attacking a woman's right to choose by exploiting the video. The right to choose and the act go hand in hand. You can't attack one without attacking the other.

Once you have a life inside of you it is not longer just YOUR right to chose.

You should have made that choice BEFORE you had sex. That life inside of you did not have that choice. Please don't bring up the rape or incest argument because that is not what I am talking about.

Your right to choose came before sex. After you made that choice to have sex you already made that choice and if resulted in a life inside of you then you must pay the piper. I get so sick of people not having any responsibility anymore or moral value.

Also don't try and tell me I am a bible thumper because I am a Pagan.

Originally posted by Swatman
it just amazes me that liberals believe in pro choice for abortion, but they dont believe in capital punishment of murderers. just amazes me.

I reject your logic.

I consider myself "liberal" in the sense that I'm fairly left leaning, but I fully support both abortions and executions.

I think you'll find that not all 'liberals', as you say as if it's an inherantly bad thing, are against capital punishment or necessarily pro-choice.

This is what I hate the most in you, Americans. Religion turned half of you into a bunch of jerks who think God knows what's best for them.
Does God pay for the diapers? NO
Does God help the teen/woman with undesired pregnancy and any psychological consequence of NOT being able to abort because of Biggot Parents/ Pregnancy Denial ? NO
Does God knew " x " thousand years in advance what should be done when a teenager breaks his condom and becomes a dad? NO

Refusing a woman the right to choose, is like agreeing with the Talibans. No less. Insult me if you want, but thinking abortion is a crime should be considered a crime. Vote for Sarah Palin in 2012, she knows best I guess

[edit on 26-3-2009 by MattMulder]

reply to post by LoneGunMan


Are you prepared to tell a woman who has just been raped that it's not within her rights to chose whether or not to carry the product of that act?

My point is that not every pregnant woman is given the opportunity to decide whether she wants to have sex or not.

reply to post by MattMulder


Since you went on the attack in support of your opinion on abortion let me ask you this.

If the fetus poses no health risk to the mother and the mother doesn't want the child what would be the harm of carrying it to term and finding adoptive parents for the newborn instead of aborting it?

Granted rape and incest should be grounds for abortion. I'm talking of those who willingly have sex and the female becomes pregnant.

Jason Nelson.
I believe you are what about 9 years old?
Really your theories and opinions on abortion are irrelevant.
Its none of anyone elses business what someone does with there own body.
Why is a 9yo telling people, adults, what they should do?

Come to my home and work with me with abused children and teenageres. See what 17 years of abuse can do to some people and defend your decisions? The odds are that no matter how much help they get, they will end up drug addicted or mentally ill in some way that prevents them from ever functioning independantly in the world. They are broken and damaged from years of TORTURE. Please do not ask me to back up how bad abuse can get for you.

Please explain to me why sending a baby to heaven before it gets the chance to suffer for life then die a sinner is better. Actually, don't.

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by MattMulder

 

If the fetus poses no health risk to the mother and the mother doesn't want the child what would be the harm of carrying it to term and finding adoptive parents for the newborn instead of aborting it?

Nine months of pain and discomfort. Mood instability, weight gain, not to mention a slew of other changes, some temporary and others permanant.

If an abortion isn't right for you, fine, nobody forces pro-lifers to get them. Those of us who believe in a woman's right to choose don't seek to force abortions upon you by law, I wish the same were true for the pro-life camp.

Once Europa was abducted there was never going back. Greece was much too seductive for her!

I am personally not fond of feminist-inspired rights, or the self-proclaimed "rights" (I should say interests, rather) of any special groups. They're much too individualistic in nature and have little regard for the functioning of society as a whole. A fetus is an individual, it is in no way connected with the rights of another. I don't see how anyone could produce a logically or even philosophically valid opinion about that.

Education is all that is needed, however. Anti-abortion laws, just as anti-gun laws are not necessary.

I think women would be more responsive to a culture of intolerance in regards to abortion as opposed to the implementation of a law that restricts what they perceive to be encompassing an exercise of their natural liberties.

If a scientist is just about finished creating a world-changing invention, the ability to abandon the project might appear within his personal domain of choice; perhaps he gets some satisfaction for destroying what was not in his opinion a perfect working model, but society ultimately suffers by his ignorance more than he.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by cognoscente]

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by skeptic1

 

I am NOT attacking a woman's right to choose, merely posting a video and asking those who support abortion to please defend the act they see as somehow less-than-evil?

Ok...here it goes. Given the choice of a child being born into a world, surrounded by at least a mother that doesn't want it, likely a situation where no one will properly care for it, possibly without a father etc...into a world where it will likely not be educated and cared for to the point of being a productive member of society therefore becoming a drain on society and possibly dragging the mother into a similar situation...and considering it is 100% legal for the mother to make such a decision...I SUPPORT THE ACT.

Oh...and for your other "standard operating procedure" question of would I want this to happen to me???? YES! I would. Life is hard enough without being forced upon a mother that didn't want me to begin with.

You see...at least in my opinion...a life (or anything for that matter) provides some percentage of positive things and some percentage of negative things. As is the case with anything, including a life, if the negative outweighs the positive...an intelligent person has to make a decision. It is then up to that person...the mother...if she is willing to take the responsibility of all the negatives and work to remedy them...or...decide that she can't (or won't) be able to provide such an effort. You see, some people (I would assume like you) believe that regardless of how the child, mother and/or society may suffer...the child should be born. In a strictly logical perspective...that is not the case.

Cold? Maybe...but it is reality.