Paul or the god Apollos: warning!! proof your faith is blind.. surprise ending!

Daniel 9: 25-27

The most you have done here is prove that the Messiah's name is NOT JESUS!!

YOu would know this by the declarations made in Daniel 10 and Daniel 12. Can you find them?

I am going to use the K.I.S.S. method to validate what she says.

how was the Bible made? I mean actually assembled- was it kept in a whole condition for as long as it's been around, with the NT tacked onto the old, The Jewish texts kept as original as possible, ect...

OR WAS IT MADE BY A COMMITTEE OF MEN WHO VOTED WHAT STAYED IN AND WHAT WENT OUT- MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH?

How do you know a) he wasn't manufactured? b) there was someone named this, but his writings were destroyed, edited to death/ rewritten to fit into the Bible? I don't, and a good many of you don't, either.

Not to mention- what do the mega churches teach? Who do they teach mainly about? I remember a lot of Paul from a couple.... Now, let's point out Mega churches and their many many flaws and abuses- and the fact they seem to do one thing well- get wealthy.

*takes off the tinfoil hat, puts on the fire and brimstone proof one*

[edit on 7-3-2009 by wylekat]

Originally posted by justamomma
Am still waiting that Christianity is based on the teachings of the Tanakh. You are avoiding my challenge and my questions.

What part of this is hard for you to understand?

the Vulgate is usually credited to have been the first translation of the Old Testament into Latin directly from the Hebrew Tanakh, rather than the Greek Septuagint.

The currently used translation of the Old Testament in the Christian Bible comes directly from a translation of the Hebrew Tanakh. Do you have some type of denial of reality thing going on? This is history, its difficult to dispute that or say its based on interpretation.

Originally posted by justamomma
Where is it declared in the tanakh that Jesus is the first born son of God? or even God himself?

If you are looking for him by NAME, your not going to find him that way, God never worked that way. There are specific refernces to him, and his life mentioned in Prophecies of the Tanakh besides the one I already gave above:

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Micah 5:2
But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.

Zechariah 9:9
Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

So you know many other Messiahs that were born to a virgin, in the city of Bethlehem, were baptized 483 years after ”The going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem”. Rode into Jerusalem on a Donkey, ministered for Three and a half years, then were cut off (put to death) to fulfill a covenant of Gods, and thereby taking away the Jewish sacrifice???

I only know one person in history who fit that description: Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Originally posted by justamomma
And who is it in Hosea 11:1 and Exodus 4:22, 23 that God *does* declare as His firstborn son?

What you are saying goes against the entire covenant made between God and the Jews to begin with. It is not even disputed among the Jews themselves that the Messiah is to be a person, not a nation. Their issue with it being Jesus was that he was undermining some of the teachings of the powerful, entrenched in office Rabbis of the day, and that he was not a Conquering Messiah that would throw off the yoke of the Roman Empire. After his death, at their hands, they covered it up because they did not want a rebellion.

Originally posted by justamomma
And calling it a metaphor is undermining what God said in the Tanakh and buying into the power of suggestion instead.

If you don’t realize that the book of Hosea is a Metaphorical book, then I am just sad for you. The whole point of the book is that God had Hosea marry a Whore, as a metaphor for the way that Israel was treating him by performing idolatry.

One of the early writing prophets, Hosea used his own marital experience as a symbolic representation of God and Israel: God the husband, Israel the wife. Hosea's wife left him to go with other men; Israel left the Lord to go with other gods. Hosea searched for his wife, found her and brought her back; God would not abandon Israel and brought them back even though they had forsaken him.

Originally posted by justamomma
If it is a metaphor to represent Jesus, then Jesus needs to be saved...

The book of Hosea has nothing to do with Christ per-say.

Originally posted by justamomma
Isaiah 45:
16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

This has what to do with anything?

Originally posted by justamomma
These are direct questions that *you* should be able to answer yourself without quoting a source OUTSIDE the Bible.

I have answered them, using only history and the Tanakh itself, with the exception of the blurb from the Gospel of Nicodemus which I simply included because I enjoy that quote.

Originally posted by justamomma
Christianity needs the Tanakh to stand.. so, prove that it can stand on the Tanakh... not with outside or assumptions. God said He declared the end from the beginning. Am waiting.

I believe that has been done over the years, hence the fact that Christianity is the Largest religion on the entire planet. Even many Jews themselves have left Judaism to become Christians or Messianic Jews. The 144,000 First fruits mentioned in the book or Revelations are all Jewish Christian Male Virgins. The disciples were instructed by Christ to only preach to the Jews for 3 years after the Death of Christ, again to try and extend Gods Covenant that they were once again rejecting, back to them. The Israelites had a history of rejecting God, and few that stayed the course receive extra favor from God, This theme shows up repeatedly in both the Old and New Testament.

I'll have to get to the rest later on, I have to finish up here at work.

reply to post by justamomma


What is Paul deceiving you about? Are you saying this because people are confused in the texts?

You say he is deceiving people, but about what?

Let me address a few problems here quickly before I have to get back to what I was doing:
Fist…

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by defcon5
Main Premise truth

You can tag all the other truth onto that equation after the fact, but ultimately it will leave you with the same basic equation.

Yes, the premise on which the hellenstic views have based their claim is Truth.. agreed. Now prove that Christianity has the right to stake its claims on that Truth.

It is “Main Premise Truth”, apparently some browsers take the Not Equal to be a HTML mark-up tag.

Next…

Originally posted by justamomma
Take the genealogy line in Matthew 1 and compare it with 2 Chronicles 3: 10-16.

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
Mat 1:2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
Mat 1:3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
Mat 1:4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
Mat 1:5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
Mat 1:6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
Mat 1:7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
Mat 1:8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
Mat 1:9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
Mat 1:10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
Mat 1:11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
Mat 1:12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
Mat 1:13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
Mat 1:14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
Mat 1:15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
Mat 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

2Ch 3:10 And in the most holy house he made two cherubims of image work, and overlaid them with gold.
2Ch 3:11 And the wings of the cherubims were twenty cubits long: one wing of the one cherub was five cubits, reaching to the wall of the house: and the other wing was likewise five cubits, reaching to the wing of the other cherub.
2Ch 3:12 And one wing of the other cherub was five cubits, reaching to the wall of the house: and the other wing was five cubits also, joining to the wing of the other cherub.
2Ch 3:13 The wings of these cherubims spread themselves forth twenty cubits: and they stood on their feet, and their faces were inward.
2Ch 3:14 And he made the vail of blue, and purple, and crimson, and fine linen, and wrought cherubims thereon.
2Ch 3:15 Also he made before the house two pillars of thirty and five cubits high, and the chapiter that was on the top of each of them was five cubits.
2Ch 3:16 And he made chains, as in the oracle, and put them on the heads of the pillars; and made an hundred pomegranates, and put them on the chains.

Yes I can see where those are quite different:
Now I want you to show me the difference between the Chronology in Mathew 1 and Jude 2…

Third…

Originally posted by justamomma
Daniel 9: 25-27

The most you have done here is prove that the Messiah's name is NOT JESUS!!

Those verses have nothing to do with Jesus Christ, they are talking about the Archangel Michael who is also the guardian of Israel. If you notice he is Mentioned in those verses as being “one of the chief princes (Archangels)”, meaning there are more then one of them (Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, etc…), while there is only one Christ.

Edit: The "not equal" thing broke again...


[edit on 3/7/2009 by defcon5]

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by justamomma

 

What is Paul deceiving you about? Are you saying this because people are confused in the texts?

You say he is deceiving people, but about what?

Can't answer for her, but Paul is an idol maker. Idol makers put all the importance on the idol itself, rather than the message and things the idol actually stands for.

You can see this in politics as well. Take the US for example. Politicians are idol makers most of the time. They push up the idol of "America", and then they take up and hide behind that idol and do "other" things. And then if you question their actions, then you are accused of being against the idol.

The saying - if fascism comes this country it will come with a flag wrapped around a bible with a cross on it is talking about this.

It's a way of blinding people to the fruits and keeping people ignorant. All politicians praise America, praise the constitution, do you have your flag pin, etc. But if you actually start to look at what the country was founded on, what the constitution says and so forth, then you see that these people don't actually follow these things. Of course, only those who understand the constitution and such know this, and everyone else who doesn't is kept ignorant to what the constitution really says and thus they follow the idol, the guy who sounds good, the charismatic leader, etc.

It's a method of manipulation. It happens in all things, religion, politics etc. Take a "secret society" like Freemasons. From what I've seen, started out with good intentions. Freedom, liberty and so forth. But the way corruption and manipulation works is the corrupter will attach the symbolism and such of that organization to themselves to appear to be one of them, all the while manipulating the message, purpose and path of the original symbolism.

All the while, they hide behind the symbolism and if anyone should question them, then you are attacking that symbolism etc.

This is what Paul does. Praises Jesus, talks about how great Jesus is. Just like a politician praising America. Then proceeds to lead people down a false path.

More detail in this thread

www.belowtopsecret.com...

Meanwhille, another people hold to their idols, and the people who see only idols(flags) only look to defend that idol, promote that idol and so forth. And the 2 sides will fight. All the while they fail to realize they are merely fighting over idols, they've been fooled into walking a path of death and destruction.

reply to post by badmedia


always like it when you post man, wether i agree or not your always well informed and stick to your guns. keep it up man.

reply to post by badmedia


Thanks for your response, but I am not seeing where it says Paul is an Idol maker.

Do you have some scriptures referring to those claims? I am interested in seeing those.

Thanks, ltru

reply to post by justamomma


While continuing to espouse your fractured fairy tale I recommend that you read the following book written by a well respected British Jewish scholar of the last century. In short, this writer debunks the NT and his own people's myths as well. This is a difficult read but well worth the struggle.

The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity by Hyam Maccoby

The book was published in 1987 and is still available over the Internet. One weakness of the work is that Maccoby never fully explores the parallels between “Jesus” and the other Jewish messianic claimants of the first century AD and there were many. The gist of Maccoby’s take is that Jesus and his followers were inspired by the Old Testament prophetic writings, and were expecting a supernatural divine intervention to end the Roman rule and restore the mythical Kingdom of David with Jesus ascending the earthly throne as monarch, initiating the prophesized Messianic age of peace and prosperity for the world. In short, the phone call from the warden never came and Jesus was arrested and executed by the Romans. This was not the first or last time that a delusional down-trodden people awaited a response from a non-existent super hero/power/god. Hope begets hope and nothing more.

Saul of Tarsus was a clever, ambitious and jealous criminal with just a touch of remorse for his crimes and deserved better treatment by the Jewish high priests he desired to be a part of. He met all of their criteria but was just born on the wrong side of town.

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by justamomma

 

I dont believe free will exists. We are all a collection of memories given to us by our perspective in reality. Those memories are the basis of our understandings which are the foundation of our choices. If you remove a memory you change a person.. if you add a memory you change a person. How can you condem a man? ever. He is operating on what he has seen in his perspective in reality. He is a creation of his memories. We are all blameless in this... all innocent. Many of us soon to be slain by the sword that comes from the mouths of the sons of god.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by Wertdagf]

Sucks for you. I believe in free will.. this separates the thinkers and the innovators though from the followers. I also believe in collective memory. It is why I am taking back the Scriptures that belong to the Jewish and not to the Churches. Collective Memory does not bind me, but it gives me a connection to something that is real for me.

Honestly, I could care less at this point if anyone believes the Words in the Tanakh... better yet... I would just as well have everyone quit using it for their blind faiths, leave it as is on the door step from where they took it and go write their own foundation for their faiths.. it wouldn't change the effectiveness of them; that I promise.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by justamomma]

So why didnt you adress the fact that if you change a persons memory that you change their beliefs, thoughts, and dreams? Are you afraid to be a puppet of god? As a child you gain memories that shape your desires for the future. It creates your personality... what you say and love to do. Those early things you experiance carry you into middle and highschool where you gain more memories that direct you further as to what you will wear and how you will talk. The parents you have shape how you will parent... this is easily seen between differnt children how their experainces being parented bleed into their own actions towards their child.

I hope you can understand this. That free will is an ignorant concept of man.

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by badmedia

 

Thanks for your response, but I am not seeing where it says Paul is an Idol maker.

Do you have some scriptures referring to those claims? I am interested in seeing those.

Thanks, ltru

Do you mean show you were scripture says that Paul is an idol maker? Or rather show you examples of what I mentioned above?

I don't know if the scripture itself calls Paul an idol maker. I'm not a biblical scholar and don't know those kinds of things(and have little care for them either). To me, such things are just details. I don't normally get too involved in these types of threads, because I honestly do not know these things.

But I do understand the process and how manipulation and wolves in sheep's clothing work. So I know if someone has builds idols. So I know that Paul does these things. If you would like examples of the method itself with Paul and him creating an idol of Jesus in this way, and then leading people down a different path - that I can do.

I mean, I can show you where Paul praises Jesus, then claims because of he carries the idol(Jesus), the people should follow him, and in doing so Paul leads people away from the original message and path of Jesus. I can show you where Jesus warns of people like Paul. Paul contradicts Jesus many times. And I can show you politicians doing the exact same thing.

So it depends on which you want.

The Book of Matthew was written by someone who obviously knew the Tanakh quite well. This is the book that did for me what is spoken of in verse 13 of Isaiah 28, below.

Isaiah 28: 5-20 gives a good portion of the context to read, but specifically, I am drawing on verse 13.

13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

IT COMPLETELY DESTROYED MY FAITH! But in a GOOD way!

Paul had a reason for saying:
Titus 3:9
"But avoid foolish questions and genealogies and strivings about the law, for they are unprofitable and vain."


The genealogy account given in Matthew 1: 6-11 should be compared to II Chr. 3:10-16.

Stumbling block #1: can you find the four names missing?

Stumbling block #2: Notice the son of Jacob in verse 2 of Matthew 1. What's that name?

Stumbling block #3: verses 15 offers up a HUGE clue as to the origins of this book.

Stumbling block #4: verse 16 is rather curious.. notice that last part of the genealogy line anywhere in the Tanakh?

Because if you do, then you might take note of
Stumbling block #5: found in verses 18 and 19 and if you are rather familiar with Genesis, then this should strike you as rather curious.. giving you cause to consider and wonder.

And on and on and on and on I could go with Matthew.. that is not even all that is there in just that first chapter alone. The stumbling blocks there, the inconsistencies are a blessing.

verse 16 in Isaiah 28 is speaking of a particular foundation, and verse 20 will reveal itself to be true and the reason to be pure, the more that you get to know that foundation.

16Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
20For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.


I kept my eyes stuck to the Tanakh for quite a bit and absorbed it.. not in the eyes of man, but just for what was there. Matthew contains the "Voice crying out in the wilderness".. and to hear that Voice more clearly, knowing the foundation is a MUST!

Matthew was my grace in that it destroyed my faith and thus, it led me to the foundation; because of that, my sight has steadily and consistently been in restoration concerning the Truth.
There is a reason why I call the faith of Christianity blind and there is a reason why I am anti the writings of Paul. The writer clearly knew that to know the foundation was to see the Truth in its Pure Light.

I Timothy 1:
3As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
4Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Because God forbid we ask questions, right?

[edit on 7-3-2009 by justamomma]

[edit on 7-3-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by justamomma

 

What is Paul deceiving you about? Are you saying this because people are confused in the texts?

You say he is deceiving people, but about what?

He,

reply to post by badmedia


Summed it up nicely! And since I noticed that you are content with his answer, I am happy to let his answer stand, as I agree!

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by badmedia

 

Thanks for your response, but I am not seeing where it says Paul is an Idol maker.

Do you have some scriptures referring to those claims? I am interested in seeing those.

Thanks, ltru

As for the second part.. are you serious? He was teaching people to worship a man! That is idolatry! He was an illusionist... a magician.. he knew the TAnakh and he filled in a few gaps of an ALREADY IN EXISTENCE story with excerpts from the prophecies and suggested to the world that *this* filled in for that... and so on.

Power of suggestion. He hypnotizes people through his writings. I wonder... I honestly do not think that people who buy into faiths (not directed, mind you) even bother really reading.. because it is so obviously there in front of you that you are falling for lies. (again, not specifically directed at the person i am replying to).

reply to post by justamomma


Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men. For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed. And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought : But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it ; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God . [Acts 5:34-39]

I think it would do you good to pay close attention to what was spoken well over 1900 years ago by one of the greatest teachers in all the annals of Judaism, Gamaliel, in regard to Jesus (Jeshua). He was wise enough to know , that if this movement regarding Jesus were of men, it would die out and fade away in time, as did so many others. Yet, if it were of God, it could not be overthrown.

You are convinced well within yourself that you are doing God a service in your attempt to set the Christians straight, but I find solace in Gamaliel’s final statement regarding the truth, you are fighting against God and the proof of that is the very fact that this movement has yet to be overthrown.

You may asssume yourself to be spiritual in regard to scripture and understanding it, the truth is, you have been spiritually blinded through your unbelief regarding the very book you keep quoting from. That is ironic.

Originally posted by jdposey
reply to post by justamomma

 

Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men. For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed. And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought : But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it ; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God . [Acts 5:34-39]

PERFECT TIMING as I was just coming to post that reference along with the following.... In the last chapter of Acts!

3And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.

4And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.

5And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.

6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.

AND PAUL DOES NOT DENY IT!! The above reference given by you is directly linked to this! AS the snake in the Tanakh was meant to make people awake to the Truth... and LOOK!

Amazing!!! right there... in fact, in another chapter of Acts a guard says to Paul, "are you not that egyptian that.... "

He was hellenestic and the Truth is written right there. I am telling you people!!! This is the Blessing and the Curse choice given in Deuteronomy! God spells it out plainly there that He would send this to see where the hearts of the people are! Would their hearts be after God, and if not, they would fall for the lie and worship the image!

I am trying to help you out here... Your faith is what blinds you.

Originally posted by justamomma
The Tanakh is practical and again, it is honest.. now show that Christianity is not a lie by using the FOUNDATION ON WHICH IT HAS BEEN SUCKING FROM; not someone else's interpretations. Show me you KNOW what it is you base your faith on.

*crickets*

*crickets*.

[advertizement]
"Men's Health" Magazine is practical and honest.
It gives dietary laws that would make men live long in the land.
[advertizement]

As the truth is bled to death, the Tanakh takes on a life of its own.
It makes up rules to live its own life by.
It builds itself up as it tears the truth down.
Christianity does with the Tanakh what the Tanakh does with the truth.
Point a finger at christianity, and see three pointing back.

Christ!

Originally posted by jdposey
You are convinced well within yourself that you are doing God a service in your attempt to set the Christians straight, but I find solace in Gamaliel’s final statement regarding the truth, you are fighting against God and the proof of that is the very fact that this movement has yet to be overthrown.

100% convinced OUTSIDE myself that I am in the knowledge of God. Know why? Because I know the front of the book so well, that I understand what it is that I just posted.. what the beast that bit him stood for, what it meant by him shaking it off and throwing it into the fire, why they thought for sure that he would die...

And that HIS MOTIVATIONS WERE WRONG because he did not deny them when they called him a god.

Yup! I'd say there was no doubt in my mind the more that I come across concerning your dear god (because that IS who you are worshiping after all). people get more upset at the thought of denying paul than even Jesus.

Originally posted by Christ!

Originally posted by justamomma
The Tanakh is practical and again, it is honest.. now show that Christianity is not a lie by using the FOUNDATION ON WHICH IT HAS BEEN SUCKING FROM; not someone else's interpretations. Show me you KNOW what it is you base your faith on.

*crickets*

*crickets*.

[advertizement]
"Men's Health" Magazine is practical and honest.
It gives dietary laws that would make men live long in the land.
[advertizement]

As the truth is bled to death, the Tanakh takes on a life of its own.
It makes up rules to live its own life by.
It builds itself up as it tears the truth down.
Christianity does with the Tanakh what the Tanakh does with the truth.
Point a finger at christianity, and see three pointing back.

Christ!

Right, you found us out christ.

Fine the Tanakh is imperfect... so take your perfect NT and give us back our imperfect Tanakh and we will leave the christians alone.

[edit on 7-3-2009 by justamomma]

Christianity is based on "sand"...and will fall.
Your premises are also based on sand.
Jesus may have had a bar-mitvah.
So what?
Between the age of 13 and 33, anyone, even a Jew, can and will change his belief system.
Jesus utterly reversed his belief system...thinking opposite the world...and therefore opposite most Jews.
Jesus heeded only the laws of GoD.
The laws of God and the laws of the Tanakh are not the same.

Christ!