Paul or the god Apollos: warning!! proof your faith is blind.. surprise ending!

Originally posted by Christ!
Christianity is based on "sand"...and will fall.
Your premises are also based on sand.
Jesus may have had a bar-mitvah.
So what?
Between the age of 13 and 33, anyone, even a Jew, can and will change his belief system.
Jesus utterly reversed his belief system...thinking opposite the world...and therefore opposite most Jews.
Jesus heeded only the laws of GoD.
The laws of God and the laws of the Tanakh are not the same.

Christ!

AGain, you are finding us out christ.. the Tanakh is based on sand. Therefore, give it back without the attachment and we will have nothing more to say about the NT. IT is that simple.

Originally posted by justamomma
Right, you found us out christ.

Fine the Tanakh is imperfect... so take your perfect NT and give us back our imperfect Tanakh and we will leave the christians alone.

I won't argue the validity of the NT if you don't argue the validity of the Tanakh.

Originally posted by justamomma

ARguing the validity of the Tanakh does no good..

Christ!

Originally posted by justamomma
As for the second part.. are you serious? He was teaching people to worship a man! That is idolatry! He was an illusionist... a magician.. he knew the TAnakh and he filled in a few gaps of an ALREADY IN EXISTENCE story with excerpts from the prophecies and suggested to the world that *this* filled in for that... and so on.

No.
Paul was teaching people to worship the gOd of the Tanakh.
That is idolatry.
The gOd of the Tanakh is an illusionist...a magician.
He makes up stories about the truth that are not true.
That's what it does.
It is the gOd of blood.
The gOd of blood suggests that blood sacrifice is a valid idea.
Paul merely takes a 'valid' idea and makes it make sense to his own mind.
After all, who can believe that animal sacrifice can accomplish anything?
Paul merely identified a 'beast of burden' that he thought was 'clean' and *valuable* enough to have an effect in regards to the problem of guilt.
Probably because Paul felt really guilty.
They don't call it 'judeo-christianity' for nothing!
Unfortunately, what never made sense is not made more sensible by Paul.


Christ!







[edit on 7-3-2009 by Christ!]

reply to post by justamomma


I'm of the opinion Paul's writings were never needed, but they exist and though I don't agree with everything he says 100% there are some real valuable things contained within them.

Now normally, I stay out of these Pauline bashing threads. They tend to come with a rank flavor of "I know more than you - you should really listen to me" but since you stated Jesus is not the Son of God or the chosen Messiah - you now have my full attention because you are wrong.

"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. " Ecclisiastes 1:9

Where did Abraham's servant first lay eyes on Rebekah, who would end up being Isaac's wife? At a spring of water.

Where did Jacob first meet Rachael? At a well.

Where did Jesus meet the Samaritan woman? The same well.

I'm not sure you understand the significance of these meetings at the spring and well. God is Spirit and he would like to have YOU as a wife. He has a gift for you but don't trust the living Jesus enough to ask him for it. The gift is living water and it testifies to the truth. The living Jesus knows everything about you; your past, your present and your future. Just like he knew how many men the Samaritan woman had been with - he knows everything about you too. Just as he was williing to accept her - he's willing too accept you - just the way you are. But again, you don't trust him to even begin the process of giving you the treasures of darkness. A lot of times we fear that which we can't see but has the possibility of manifesting.

If you ever make that huge leap of faith (which you may not be capable of) you'll understand why Jesus is the anointed Messiah, what it really means to lift up the Son of Man, why Jesus says he is from above - but we are from below, why God says in Isaiah 54 "your maker is your husband", Esther's anointment to become queen to help her people, and sadly how Leah must have felt not to be the first chosen bride of Jacob. Most importantly you'll understand that the living Jesus is the bridegroom and how special you really are to God.

You are the one who needs to really start critically thinking for yourself. Jesus was sent by God to reveal his innermost mysteries and lucky for us the beloved disciple recorded them. In fact, the whole book of John contains the mysteries that I speak of - that is why that book is different, than Matthew, Luke & Mark. It's also why a piece of Mark was taken out (known as Secret Mark). These things are only the tip of the iceberg. Every truth you consider can and will be revealed through God's anointed Messiah, the living Jesus.

God teaches through his Spirit and the only way to get the correct teachings and interpretations is through the one he chose to anoint as the Messiah and that is Jesus.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct

God teaches through his Spirit and the only way to get the correct teachings and interpretations is through the one he chose to anoint as the Messiah and that is Jesus.

The only way to get the correct teachings is to listen to the Spirit.
Jesus listened to the Spirit.
Anyone can listen to the Spirit.
Jesus heard first, clearly.
How did he hear so clearly?
Hear Jesus clearly and you will be able to hear the Spirit clearly.
But hear Jesus not, and you will not hear the Spirit either.
Can you hear the Spirit without first hearing Jesus?
Yes.

Generally, you are mistaken, having heard from those who listened, but did not "hear" what Jesus said.

Christ!

reply to post by Christ!


He heard?? No he FELT. After his baptism the Spirit descended like a dove upon him. You feel God's Spirit first, which is unmistakable, that is why these things are recorded, so we can understand them when they begin happening.

Seeing and hearing spiritually comes after that fact.

Originally posted by Christ!

Originally posted by justamomma
Right, you found us out christ.

Fine the Tanakh is imperfect... so take your perfect NT and give us back our imperfect Tanakh and we will leave the christians alone.

I won't argue the validity of the NT if you don't argue the validity of the Tanakh.

Originally posted by justamomma

ARguing the validity of the Tanakh does no good..

Christ!

You seem to be lacking the ability to grasp what I am saying here. Christianity is claiming its foundation on something that teaches the total opposite of what christianity teaches.

The Tanakh was first... christianity was 2nd... therefore, I can argue Christianity.

I DO NOT CARE IF CHRISTIANITY IS REAL OR NOT... I ONLY CARE THAT IT DOES NOT HAVE ITS FOUNDATIONS WITHIN THE TANAKH!!!

I am all for the Christians being whisked away to heaven by Christ. YAY! But while they are here, they need to tell the truth about where their foundation lies!!

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. " Ecclisiastes 1:9

According to the teachings of Paul, this is TRUE and this is NOT according to the teachings of the Tanakh. The Tanakh was Divinely inspired by the CREATOR! Christianity is based on faith... it just accepts.. and as long as it continues, nothing new WILL be under the sun because people have settled into apathy and complacency. People will continue to hate because others question, people will continue to gossip and slander, people will continue to say I am right and you are wrong with NOTHING TO BACK UP THEIR CLAIMS. I am fine with everyone thinking the Tanakh is not the Word of God... it does not matter because with or without the acknowledgment, the Truth continues to exist.. but Paul needed your blind faith so that his paths to destruction could continue to exist and it is attached to one of the most gorgeous writings! People get the wrong idea about God because they learn to view Him through the eyes of Paul and his was not the correct vision.

NOT my ideal, personally!

Other teachings:

1. Do not question
2. Faith... do not question
3. Distaste for the Jewish
4. Idolatry
5. Focus on Death.. both for salvation and for hope.. weird, no?
6. Submit to authorities NO MATTER WHAT
7. All are sinners (even if one has not sinned, bc Adam did, so are we)
8. Subdue all experiences that could cause you to learn

Shall I go on? It is strange that so many find these to be *great* teachings.

Originally posted by justamomma
You seem to be lacking the ability to grasp what I am saying here. Christianity is claiming its foundation on something that teaches the total opposite of what christianity teaches.

Yes, as a rule of thumb, popular christianity, as it has been handed down, is opposite what Jesus taught.
It is more in alignment with what the Tanakh teaches.
For example,
It venerates the gOd of the Tanakh...the gOd of this world...the one which makes "the universe" of galaxies and people and things...the earth and seas.
This is the gOd of "genesis" or Hebrew folklore...man's maker.
This aligns it with the most distinguishing feature of Judaism...besides the concept of sacrifice.
For animal sacrifice, it substitutes another, the blood of which is considered much more potent relative to the problem of guilt.
Thirdly, it looks foreward to a kind of "Messiah", which will come and establish an exclusive kingdom of chosen elites who meet preconditions.
Fourthly, it hopes for a bodily resurrection into such kingdom...again, for the chosen elites, selected not by bloodline, but by belief line.

On these four points it mimics the main features of pop Judaism.
And for this reason it is called "Judeo-Christianity".
It is different enough to offend Judeo purists.
Likewise, some new Country Western music offends old purists.
But it is same enough to make them nOt oppOsites.
It is the same old song and dance.
Both are opposite what Jesus understood to be the truth.
Both oppose Reality...which is the best understanding of the term "Christ".

Christ!








[edit on 8-3-2009 by Christ!]

Originally posted by justamomma

According to the teachings of Paul, this is TRUE and this is NOT according to the teachings of the Tanakh. The Tanakh was Divinely inspired by the CREATOR! Christianity is based on faith... it just accepts.. and as long as it continues, nothing new WILL be under the sun because people have settled into apathy and complacency. People will continue to hate because others question, people will continue to gossip and slander, people will continue to say I am right and you are wrong with NOTHING TO BACK UP THEIR CLAIMS. I am fine with everyone thinking the Tanakh is not the Word of God... it does not matter because with or without the acknowledgment, the Truth continues to exist.. but Paul needed your blind faith so that his paths to destruction could continue to exist and it is attached to one of the most gorgeous writings! People get the wrong idea about God because they learn to view Him through the eyes of Paul and his was not the correct vision.

And you don't think the Gospel of John was divinely inspired?? The kid was raised from the dead for crying out loud. I know the Tanakh is the Word of God, I never said it wasn't. In fact, I clearly showed you the parallel of Jacob & Rachael/Jesus & the Samaritan woman meeting at the well. It was not some random coincedence that meeting took place.

I'm not talking about Paul or blind faith - I'm addressing the issue of the bridegroom looking for a descent bride and it just zoomed straight over your head. You'll never be chosen if you don't get the blinders off and get up off of Paul's back.

Do you even know what it means to raise up the Son of Man? Do you know the mystery of Elijah? Has the arm of the Lord been revealed to you?

Jesus reveals the mysteries. He is the anointed Messiah.

Damn, of all the times i've read through the bible how could i miss this? Oh yea..i don't think i was taught this. Have you read the entire chapter, ch 3? I reads like a mofo cult movie, you can't make it up any better than this! Yea, ya man and his girl crossed tha line so i served his ass up to Satan himself! Not a go between, not demons, but Lucifer himself, why else say his name?

Doing what i do, i notice these disturbing passages. you can read the same lines and interpret them as you will but, i use a combination of logic and common sense, heh.

Phililppians 2 Ch 3:4.-5 That is a glaring red flag if i ever seen one ever. Paul is tellin the boys that basically our bodies are weak in the grand scheme, in which they are..no natural weapons, no fur, teeth for only chewing precut food, but Paul let's them know that HIS BODY is stronger than theirs, he's in the big leagues, we're in the minors....i wonder what the church has the say about that. I play DnD, Rifts, and recently GURPS, and its kinda scary how things get "familiar", Paul is talking like he got elevated to demigod status..not quite immortal but close enough mortally to make a big difference. AND he let's'em know tha pedigree!

Phililppians 2 Ch 3 10-11 Hmm...i don't know how to take this..at face value or the fact that he is saying that we all will be "raised again" in the kingdom of God, which is the theme, which is what most people will tell you. The bible is full of double talk is like the thing is coded, which i wouldn't doubt if you hide the most powerful knowledge in plain sight, but i digress, let's continue! But its kinda hard to grasp that perspective when earlier he tells us that basically he's a baller...so im thinking that he's basically doing all of this so he can have the same power as Jesus.

Phililppians 2 Ch 3 21 So here, he's tellin us to be cool cuz Jesus when he returns will "transform" our lowly bodies like his..WTF? transform? I didn't know there was anything wrong with it. I looked at TWO different bibles and the word "transformed" was used in both. So obviously the bodies we have are down graded versions of a superior model.

The most troubling thing i read in the bible in the beginning. Genesis 3:22. My question is who the hell is "WE?" That is plural, God is speaking about somone else other than HIM, so the question becomes who? Could be talking to the angels or other *gasp* Gods? And why put that tree in the earth in the first place? If he is omnipotent and omniscient he knew what would happen right? You could say it was all the serpents fault, but he is doing what do he does. There is no free choice if all of your actions are predetermined, so when Adam was created, his fate and Eve's was sealed. It's as if it's unfolding excatly as he planeed..scary ain't it?

Originally posted by cenpuppie
The most troubling thing i read in the bible in the beginning. Genesis 3:22. My question is who the hell is "WE?" That is plural, God is speaking about somone else other than HIM, so the question becomes who? Could be talking to the angels or other *gasp* Gods? And why put that tree in the earth in the first place? If he is omnipotent and omniscient he knew what would happen right? You could say it was all the serpents fault, but he is doing what do he does. There is no free choice if all of your actions are predetermined, so when Adam was created, his fate and Eve's was sealed. It's as if it's unfolding excatly as he planeed..scary ain't it?

WE = YOU. You are god. God is within everyone. Without god you would not exist. You would not be conscious at all, you wouldn't know what it means to "be", you would not have that feeling of "I AM". People just do not realize what is so special about being able to choose, to have free will and so forth.

The reason you are not to make idols of God, as Paul does with Jesus is because when you do that, then you by default misrepresent god(the father) into a single idol. When in truth, you could never represent or symbolize god into such a single thing. When I first read the commandment of idols I thought - well that is just to keep the people ignorant. Not true. It is done because it will by default be a misrepresentation of god.

Psalm 82 (King James Version)

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

When they build up an idol of Jesus as the son of god, they are in effect denying it of everyone else. They are saying only Jesus is this, you are not. That because Jesus is this and you are not, then you must worship him. Jesus tried to show people the opposite of this. He also makes it clear

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Jesus also makes it clear that the father can talk to you directly, so the whole idol worshiping is out of place. Even if you do not love Jesus, know Jesus and so forth, you can still know the father.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

These people who teach that Jesus is this and you are not and create and idol do so to manipulate and to keep you from seeing the father within. They build up an idol so that you will then accept that idol, and an external person can come in 1 day and feel that role for you(anti-christs). If you knew all this stuff was within, then obviously you would never accept external replacements for it.

The father and son are the same person. The father however is "You/We/Us" in a perceptive that is all knowing, omnipresent and so forth. As all is known by the father, nothing changes. The son/daughters are still the father, but not in the same perspective. We do not know all, we have a limited perception that is needed for this "reality" and experience to exist. If we knew all the future, then it wouldn't be the future it would be a memory.

So, this is the father/son relationship. While you are technically "god", and you are a child of god, the father is still much much greater than you. It is impossible for "you" to become equal or greater than the father because at such a moment you just join back into the perspective of the father. That point where one can not go beyond and return to this reality/experience as the limited perspective of this reality is lost.

It all ties together. Those parts do not make sense due to the misunderstandings created after. "We" as god is not really out of place when you actually understand.

Also, free will and such can not be understood and is not possible in a linear reality. If we lived in a linear reality then and only then is the entire future known in such a way. But as quantum physics is learning, this is not a linear reality. And that is why free will is still possible.

As god is all knowing, then he not only knows a linear reality, he knows all possibilities. Every possible thing that can occur actually is there. This is the perspective of the father, this is how he can know all, and you still have free will.

In fact, when a possibility doesn't exist, then that is the moment free will is no longer possible. But part of free will is also the ability to give it away. And that is needed to have this experience/reality/life. Every game/experience has rules to it, and when you agree to those rules, then you are agreeing to give away part of your free will - if only on a subconscious level. Meaning you aren't really looking at it that way. Go play a game of cards, you give away part of your free will and do not know the cards. If you played with the cards face up, knowing all the hand, then the experience/game no longer exists.

So again, back to father/son relationship. The father would be knowing all, and so to him it's like playing with the cards face up and dealt. For the son, he is limited in his knowledge, and so the game/experience is able to exist.

Nothing illogical about it. What is illogical is when you get into what god and consciousness is. There is no logic that can explain that. No logic that can explain or give that feeling of "I AM".

As all possibilities exist and there is free will, then the choices you make determine the path you take and your future. And this is where Jesus and the way comes in. Because when you follow Jesus and do what he says, rather than worshiping his idol, then you make the right kind of choices that lead down a better path. Rob a bank, end up in a future where you are in jail. Help someone, maybe make a friend that will return the favor one day. Your choices are actions themselves and so they carry reactions, you reap what you sow. So by following the path and understanding Jesus gives, then maybe, just maybe you can no longer reap bad things. 1 path leads to heaven, 1 path leads to a hell. And you can always change the path you are on, don't let anyone ever tell you that you are stuck somewhere.

Which is again what is so bad about Paul and idol worship. Because the people worship the idol but do not really do what is said. They do not understand, they do not know. And so they take anyone carrying the idol as being representative of it, and then they follow that. And then wolves in sheeps clothing come along and get people to do actions that are opposite of what Jesus said(wars and the path of death and destruction). This is why idol building is so bad and a tool of manipulation.

Blind faith is not needed or asked for. Jesus even says so.

7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

People with blind faith are those who are too scared to ask, do not ask the right questions, or only trust the words of men for their answers.




[edit on 8-3-2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by Christ!

Originally posted by justamomma
You seem to be lacking the ability to grasp what I am saying here. Christianity is claiming its foundation on something that teaches the total opposite of what christianity teaches.

Yes, as a rule of thumb, popular christianity, as it has been handed down, is opposite what Jesus taught.
It is more in alignment with what the Tanakh teaches.
For example,
It venerates the gOd of the Tanakh...the gOd of this world...the one which makes "the universe" of galaxies and people and things...the earth and seas.
This is the gOd of "genesis" or Hebrew folklore...man's maker.
This aligns it with the most distinguishing feature of Judaism...besides the concept of sacrifice.
For animal sacrifice, it substitutes another, the blood of which is considered much more potent relative to the problem of guilt.
Thirdly, it looks foreward to a kind of "Messiah", which will come and establish an exclusive kingdom of chosen elites who meet preconditions.
Fourthly, it hopes for a bodily resurrection into such kingdom...again, for the chosen elites, selected not by bloodline, but by belief line.

On these four points it mimics the main features of pop Judaism.
And for this reason it is called "Judeo-Christianity".
It is different enough to offend Judeo purists.
Likewise, some new Country Western music offends old purists.
But it is same enough to make them nOt oppOsites.
It is the same old song and dance.
Both are opposite what Jesus understood to be the truth.
Both oppose Reality...which is the best understanding of the term "Christ".

Oh wow! uh... I made a mistake in that post. I had meant to say that Christianity teaches the opposite of what the Tanakh teaches.

By the way Jesus was Jewish and therefore he ONLY taught was in the Tanakh. Christianity has nothing to do with the Tankah.. with Jesus... or with the Jewish.

It was Paul's greed to step on the heads of whoever to immortalize himself in the minds of mankind. But it has no foundation in the Tanakh. you can find its origings in Egypt.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct

Originally posted by justamomma

According to the teachings of Paul, this is TRUE and this is NOT according to the teachings of the Tanakh. The Tanakh was Divinely inspired by the CREATOR! Christianity is based on faith... it just accepts.. and as long as it continues, nothing new WILL be under the sun because people have settled into apathy and complacency. People will continue to hate because others question, people will continue to gossip and slander, people will continue to say I am right and you are wrong with NOTHING TO BACK UP THEIR CLAIMS. I am fine with everyone thinking the Tanakh is not the Word of God... it does not matter because with or without the acknowledgment, the Truth continues to exist.. but Paul needed your blind faith so that his paths to destruction could continue to exist and it is attached to one of the most gorgeous writings! People get the wrong idea about God because they learn to view Him through the eyes of Paul and his was not the correct vision.

And you don't think the Gospel of John was divinely inspired?? The kid was raised from the dead for crying out loud. I know the Tanakh is the Word of God, I never said it wasn't. In fact, I clearly showed you the parallel of Jacob & Rachael/Jesus & the Samaritan woman meeting at the well. It was not some random coincedence that meeting took place.

I'm not talking about Paul or blind faith - I'm addressing the issue of the bridegroom looking for a descent bride and it just zoomed straight over your head. You'll never be chosen if you don't get the blinders off and get up off of Paul's back.

Do you even know what it means to raise up the Son of Man? Do you know the mystery of Elijah? Has the arm of the Lord been revealed to you?

Jesus reveals the mysteries. He is the anointed Messiah.

The Tanakh is the Divinely Inspired Word of God. We know this because it was Sealed to be so in Malachi.

3:6 I, the Lord do not change!! Read the last chapter in Malachi.. chapter 4. IT is clear there was something coming up to test the hearts of his people that had been scattered in with the Gentile bloodline. He EVEN GIVES US THE chance to let Him prove himself to us so that we know.

The words that Jesus spake, if it can be found in the Tanakh.. then you know that it was indeed the rabbi's words. If you can not, then it was interpolated by the Scribes who wanted their own agendas met. All of what I am speaking of is found in the Tanakh.

Originally posted by cenpuppie
Paul is talking like he got elevated to demigod status..not quite immortal but close enough mortally to make a big difference. AND he let's'em know tha pedigree!

THANKYOU!!!! You have got it my man!!

The Jewish People's place in the world is NOT ONE of RIGHTS, it is one of responsibility!!! It is one to serve the people and then to keep God in rememberance... nothing more. What the other nations believed was their right. The Jewish were not meant to interfere with that and CERTAINLY NEVER to put the bonds that THEY had to the Creator on the rest of humanity.

This would be the fulfillment God made to mankind that He would never destroy mankind off of the face of the earth again.. and the Jewish were like that signature on the contract.

Paul went and elevated the status and then discredited any Jewish that knew the truth that their contract was not a right. Paul changed it to being a right... subtely.. and he put chains and bonds on mankind that they were not meant to have.

MANKIND LIVES AND MANKIND DIES. When you die.. there is NOTHING MORE. So focus on the experience and live life!

The Zionist are those elite Jews who are oppressing you.. and they DO discredit their own people because the lesser of the Jewish are the ones who know the truth.. and are trying to tell YOU ALL!!!

Christianity is a form of control that you were never meant to be under. The ONLY ROOT it has in the Tanakh is that the Tanakh WARNS us of this deception clearly!!!

So, those who are disregarding me and *trying* to be rude (though I take no offense because I understand that you are deceived) should PAY ATTENTION to what it is I am trying to tell you.

The Jewish, the ones who know their place, care about the creation of God and that includes mankind. When you die, the truth is this.. YOU CEASE TO EXIST AND ANY CLAIMS OF AFTERLIFE ARE A LIE. it only serves to get you to give all your rights up in the here and now... they are using you, they are abusing you, and they DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU..

God does and this is why he made He made His contract with you and signed it with the Jewish People who are nothing more than your insurance on this earth while you are alive. NO RIGHTS DO THE JEWISH HAVE OVER YOUR LIFE!!! But the ones like Paul are taking that authority even now. It is very sad.

[edit on 8-3-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by justamomma
By the way Jesus was Jewish and therefore he ONLY taught was in the Tanakh. Christianity has nothing to do with the Tankah.. with Jesus... or with the Jewish.

It was Paul's greed to step on the heads of whoever to immortalize himself in the minds of mankind. But it has no foundation in the Tanakh. you can find its origings in Egypt.

You just want to disown the "black" sheep of your religio-ethnic family.
I just pointed out the four ways judeo-christianity is based on Tanakhan principles.
Do you read and respond, or do you just drive nails?
First you say Paul is Hellenized, then Egyptianized.
Anything but Judaized!
I'll list the four ways again:
1. Venerates gOd of the Tanakh [gOd of "genesis"] and it's deeds.
2. Values the principle of sacrifice.
3. Looks for a "Messiah" sent by the gOd of the Tanakh.
4. Hopes for a bodily resurrection according to a neo-Pharisee eschatology.

These mimic Judaism more than anything Greek or Egyptian.
And these are the main premises of Paul's legacy.
Is it possible your emotional investment is clouding your scholarship?

Christ!



[edit on 8-3-2009 by Christ!]

Originally posted by Christ!

Originally posted by justamomma
By the way Jesus was Jewish and therefore he ONLY taught was in the Tanakh. Christianity has nothing to do with the Tankah.. with Jesus... or with the Jewish.

It was Paul's greed to step on the heads of whoever to immortalize himself in the minds of mankind. But it has no foundation in the Tanakh. you can find its origings in Egypt.

You just want to disown the "black" sheep of your religio-ethnic family.
I just pointed out the four ways judeo-christianity is based on Tanakhan principles.
Do you read and respond, or do you just drive nails?
First you say Paul is Hellenized, then Egyptianized.
Anything but Judaized!
I'll list the four ways again:
1. Venerates gOd of the Tanakh [gOd of "genesis"] and it's deeds.
2. Values the principle of sacrifice.
3. Looks for a "Messiah" sent by the gOd of the Tanakh.
4. Hopes for a bodily resurrection according to a neo-Pharisee eschatology.

These mimic Judaism more than anything Greek or Egyptian.
And these are the main premises of Paul's legacy.
Is it possible your emotional investment is clouding your scholarship?

Christ!



[edit on 8-3-2009 by Christ!]

Honestly, I pretty much skim over what you say now. I will not lie. The bolded line above is the most obvious example in what you say for the reason of my skimming what you say.

Hellenstic religion was widely practiced IN Egypt, as well as Greece, and then Rome.

The *ideals* of Hellenistic culture originated in Egypt, though it took root and developed (as well as was named for the goddess) in Greece.. then Rome followed suit by absorbing the Greek Hellenistic culture.

The list that you have listed does not show me that you have *any* knowledge of the Tanakh. If you did, no matter how arrogant you want to take this, you would not be disagreeing with me.

PAUL'S WRITINGS ARE FOR A PURPOSE!!!

How many are even aware that the tribe of Benjamin decided to mix in with the the line of Judah? KNow why? Because God set that line up to be ruling bloodline... because those who are TRULY OF THAT LINE are humble people and care about the Nature of God, His Creation, and they are truly THE MOST peacable people.

But the tribe that joined into them IS NOT AND THEY ARE THE ONES THAT WORLD THINKS OF WHEN THEY THINK Jewish.. they are the ones behind the scenes controlling it all and you know HOW they were able to do this?? Christianity!!

They not only have enslaved the Gentiles, but they are betraying the Jewish and they are behind the rift between the Muslims and the Jewish (who are very much related as well).

All of this is spoken of in the Tanakh... and the clues are there in the Nt and the more you absorb the Word in the Tanakh, the more you see it in the NT.

So... this is my issue. This is why I say, fine... believe the lie... but do NOT connect it with the Truth so that those who want to escape can find where to escape to. The Laws of God are not binding. The LAWS OF GOD are NOT the commandments and statutes given to the Jewish to serve as the signature between God and mankind.. the Laws of God are natural.. they set you free.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME NOW CHRIST?? I am not arguing the validity of the TAnakh... I am arguing the validity of the lie that is basing itself on the Tanakh. It matters little if people believe the Tanakh or not... it matters that people understand that Christianity is NOT promoted in the Tanakh.

Originally posted by justamomma
It matters little if people believe the Tanakh or not... it matters that people understand that Christianity is NOT promoted in the Tanakh.

Why does that matter to you?

Christ!

Originally posted by Christ!

Originally posted by justamomma
It matters little if people believe the Tanakh or not... it matters that people understand that Christianity is NOT promoted in the Tanakh.

Why does that matter to you?

Christ!

Because the lie that is using the Tanakh as a support is affecting my life and the lives of my children. So, I seek to expose it. Good enough reason I think.