Paul or the god Apollos: warning!! proof your faith is blind.. surprise ending!

Paul, the idoloter... if you are sure you KNOW he is not, then you will have no problem reading this. Warning!! Only those strong of faith should read.. and if you are, then you will surely prove me wrong to shut my mouth as Paul commands of you!! If you are scared of losing your faith, I warn you: DO NOT PROCEED!

I present this here as I have presented it to the religious and have been told that my mouth should be stopped (direct words from Paul ). I have more hope that you all will not only see the Truth I present out of love, but that you will accept it because it is clear.. deception by Paul.

The following scene in Acts has always been the strangest account to me.. gives me the creeps to read it. Take it for what you will. Paul is a deceiver and I have tapped the nail in the coffin thus far... and now am ready for the hammering it in for your own sakes. The ending, if the rest does not already shock you (which, even though I knew he was deceiving, it still shocked the hell out of me), the end I am giving you PROOF POSITIVE that Jesus, supported by the Word of G.d, warned against Paul.. 100%!

Acts 19:
24 For a certain man named Demetrius, a silversmith, which made silver shrines for Diana, brought no small gain unto the craftsmen;
25 Whom he called together with the workmen of like occupation, and said, Sirs, ye know that by this craft we have our wealth.
26 Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands:
27 So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.
28 And when they heard these sayings, they were full of wrath, and cried out, saying, Great is Diana of the Ephesians.
29 And the whole city was filled with confusion: and having caught Gaius and Aristarchus, men of Macedonia, Paul's companions in travel, they rushed with one accord into the theatre.
30 And when Paul would have entered in unto the people, the disciples suffered him not.
31 And certain of the chief of Asia, which were his friends, sent unto him, desiring him that he would not adventure himself into the theatre.
32 Some therefore cried one thing, and some another: for the assembly was confused: and the more part knew not wherefore they were come together.
33 And they drew Alexander out of the multitude, the Jews putting him forward. And Alexander beckoned with the hand, and would have made his defence unto the people.
34 But when they knew that he was a Jew, all with one voice about the space of two hours cried out, Great is Diana of the Ephesians.
35 And when the townclerk had appeased the people, he said, Ye men of Ephesus, what man is there that knoweth not how that the city of the Ephesians is a worshipper of the great goddess Diana, and of the image which fell down from Jupiter?
36 Seeing then that these things cannot be spoken against, ye ought to be quiet, and to do nothing rashly.
37 For ye have brought hither these men, which are neither robbers of churches, nor yet blasphemers of your goddess.
38 Wherefore if Demetrius, and the craftsmen which are with him, have a matter against any man, the law is open, and there are deputies: let them implead one another.
39 But if ye enquire any thing concerning other matters, it shall be determined in a lawful assembly.
40 For we are in danger to be called in question for this day's uproar, there being no cause whereby we may give an account of this concourse.
41 And when he had thus spoken, he dismissed the assembly.

First Demetrius, the idol maker claims that Paul is against them, the idol makers and they are angry with him.. this taking place with the Ephesians mind you.

Demetrius:As we see is "a silversmith, which made silver shrines for Diana, brought no small gain unto the craftsmen"

In the following passage, which is Paul's writing and I can prove as well.. there is much in the writings attributed to him that leave one with a thinking mind with no doubt.

3 John 1:
12 Demetrius hath good report of all men, and of the truth itself: yea, and we also bear record; and ye know that our record is true.
It looks to people as though John, the Apostle, is endorsing a maker of idols who is apparently against Paul for speaking against them. *rolls eyes*

So, after Demetrius says things *rolls eyes* about Paul, the town is enraged and then confused.. This is how it works when one can talks about Paul, no? Confusion always ensues.

The next person mentioned is Gaius, one of Paul's companions getting taken hold of after *Demetrius* supposedly attacks Paul. Here is what is said about him by Paul.

Romans 16: 23
Gaius mine host, and of the whole church, saluteth you.

I Corinthians 1:14
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

And then John (rolls eyes), endorsing him along with Demetrius, the idol maker? Odd, no?

3 John 1:1
The elder unto the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.

Strange.. well, hold on because it gets even stranger..

Aristarchus is mentioned in Acts 20: 4; 27:2; Colossians 4:10; Philemon 1:24

Now, the latter is interesting in that someone named Demas is mentioned with Aristarchus.
Colossians 4:14 He is mentioned again with Luke, the (note the following word) beloved physician (give away as the same sticky sweet language that is so dripping with backstabbing pride).
And then 2 Timothy 4:10 uh oh.. Demas forsook Paul, having loved the present world (God forbid that someone would love the present world... which is actually contradictory to what God's thoughts were in Isaiah when He said He did not make it in vain. So I guess God would not forbid such a thing).

Well, as you can see, there is already so much flipping confusion here and it seems wherever Paul is in Acts there is confusion. Sheesh, right?

Note a few things.. taking place with Ephesians (of whom Paul has association with).

Paul tries to enter into the "theatre" and the disciples do not allow for it as well as his asian people urge him to just stay away.

Huuuuuuh???

I am going to skip to Alexander.. the one put forth by the Jews. Now, it is obvious that Alexander says something that upsets the Diana worshipers. Why don't we look into a bit of what it is the goddess Diana is about, shall we?

Diana is associated with wild animals. Hmmm.. so is the tribe of Benjamin, specifically wolves, interestingly enough the same tribe from which Paul lays claim to. Wolves in sheep clothing anyone? She is the emblem of chastity.. hmm... can we think of anyone else that is worshiped and prayed to (mama) that is a symbol of chastity? She made up a trinity interestingly enough as well.. Egeria ~ water (Spirit perhaps?) and Virbius ~ the woodland god (or son who died on the cross anyone?). Diana was Hellenized (Paul was Hellenistic), which ended in her appearing next to *drum roll* the god, APOLLO.

Now, here is my assignment. Go look up the following passages and when you are finished, come back and tell me what YOU NOW KNOW as I know about our Paul of the NT. There is no mistake! It is declared as G.d promised in Isaiah.

Acts 18:24; 19:1; I Cor 1:12; 3:4; 3: 5; 3:6; 3:22; 4:6; 16:12; Titus 3:13 (be not mistaken.. Paul is endorsing if not claiming who it is being promoted here).

Can you explain this account in Acts any better. Look at what Paul says about the Jew (which we already know he has issues with the Jewish.. don't you wonder why?) put forth named Alexander, that upsets the Diana worshipers.

I Timothy 1:20
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

2 Timothy 4:14
Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works

By the way, Alexander is mentioned with the disciples in other passages.

Paul is a deceiver and you all have been taken in. Is it really worth it to hang on to something that none of you thus far have been able to come close to showing me I am wrong about? I am trying to warn you and help you toward the Truth because it is important to me.

Come up with a better account for this strange surreal "theatrical" play of events in Acts and I will listen. This has always given me the creeps.

One more interesting piece of PROOF POSITIVE that Paul was a master manipulater and the NAIL IN THE COFFIN OF YOUR FAITH! :

Jesus said in Matthew 7: 15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Paul admitted in Phillippians 3: 4-5
Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee.

And G.d declares it in Genesis 49: 27
Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.

Catch the connection? I have confidence in you all! The religious folk are covering their eyes and that they are saying my mouth should be stopped makes me confident that I have the smoking gun. I know that you are all honest and intelligent individuals! so?

Brutal! That was so deep as to defy a quick response. I need to print that out and study it. What I would ask in the mean time is a shorter summary? But of course that is nothing that you owe me so in the mean time I will work on my own but it will not be fast in coiming.

Very interesting, i will definitely have to read this alot more thoroughly before i can even speak intelligently about it lol, but certainly an intriguing read. I have been cautious of paul and felt that the church emphasizes his teachings far more than the teachings of Christ. Ill have to put some research into this.

Wow! that is actually the kindest and best response I have gotten since I have started putting this out.

In other words... Paul is admitting to be of the god Apollos and the account I gave in Acts is the connection.. Diana, the goddess became hellenized (which people on this board know I have been saying that Paul is of hellenistic views... proof now) when they joined her to Apollos the god.

Then on top of that.. Jesus clearly says watch out for the wolves in sheeps clothings.

In Genesis, Jacob, when handing out the blessings to the sons (tribes) declares the tribe of Benjamin to be ravinous wolves.

Paul, as I showed said he was from the tribe of Benjamin.

And then to seal the deal, G.d says in Isaiah 45:

18For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

19I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

20Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

21Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

22Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

And He, G.d did... declared it from ancient times... who would be the deceiver.


JESUS is NOT THE God and there was no human sacrifice!! That is all about death and G.d is about Life and experiences. Most have good hearts, no?

Psalm 19:

7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.


Look at all the gorgeous things He has set up in His Laws that mankind is missing out on. It is not like Paul said! All I do is read the Word of G.d and when I feel that prick in my heart, I consider it, and He enlightens me to align my perspective to His.. and it is not burdening at all!!! That was a deception.. .and look what is happening to the world because of religion.. this was not G.d's plan.. but it was "Paul's" plan.. as a worshiper of Apollo and Diana, the goddess of chastity.

If you would, notice the *converting* the soul; the making wise the simple; rejoicing the heart; enlightening the eyes. *sighs in adoration*
Now, *that* sounds much better and much more free than what Paul is offering!!

And I offered this on religious boards and they are suddenly needing maintanance hahaha after most threatened to "shut my mouth." These are exact words of Paul's. IT is creepy, no?

Originally posted by ASeeker343
Very interesting, i will definitely have to read this alot more thoroughly before i can even speak intelligently about it lol, but certainly an intriguing read. I have been cautious of paul and felt that the church emphasizes his teachings far more than the teachings of Christ. Ill have to put some research into this.

Thank you! That is all I ask! Never take my word, but it is all there in the Word of G.d and I have given all the references.. even where Paul declares who it is he is a part of. *whew* I knew I would not be disappointed by those on here.

I remember when I was a kid I just straight up didn't like Paul. I never got into any detectivework on it but Paul is definately one of the reasons christianity frustrates me. It's like you're reading along, and then blam, paul blindsides you with a judgemental attitude. Yeah, that was it. Too judgemental. Don't judge, lest ye be judged i thought. Anyways, this is reallyimpressive op.

Originally posted by heyo
I remember when I was a kid I just straight up didn't like Paul. I never got into any detectivework on it but Paul is definately one of the reasons christianity frustrates me. It's like you're reading along, and then blam, paul blindsides you with a judgemental attitude. Yeah, that was it. Too judgemental. Don't judge, lest ye be judged i thought. Anyways, this is reallyimpressive op.

Me too and many more that I know. Jesus was Jewish and Jesus said His teachings would be confirmed in the Scriptures, which was the Tankakh and not the teachings of Paul since the NT did not exist at that time.

The Jewish (not talking of the state of Israel .. the Zionist) which is a religion and not a bloodline as they are trying to get the word out right now is not about bonds and chains. It is about enlightenment.

How many of you are even aware that the Genesis account supports evolution and not the literal account?

G.d made us, not with a flaw, but with free will. It was a gift and not a curse. Mistakes are our way of learning. Paul was the pharisee and the Scribe that the Scriptures (which we are told is Jesus.. but it is allegorical) were sold to. IT was deception to keep us all from being enlightened to the truth.

the enlightenment is not from aliens, but from G.d. All those who are gaining vasts amounts of knowledge... Read Daniel. It is in there and it from G.d... noone else. And there *is* only ONE G.D and He is not man.. not Jesus. They are drunk off the blood of a human sacrifice... think it won't happen again? Religion is not what G.d taught in His Word. IT holds vasts amounts of knowledge.

Zachariah teaches us how that Word was sold and Isaiah teaches how G.d will take it back. Genesis... all allegorical to teach you the deception from the truth in the NT. All of the NT can be deciphered through Genesis as can the prophetic books.

I know I am rambling.. but I am hoping to stir interest here. IT will enlighten you and you will be amazed. I have given references to the truth about Paul and have NO problem answering questions..

I am speaking on the grounds of Truth:

Isaiah 45:
3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

And..

Isaiah 44:
6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

7And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.

8Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

9They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.

I am one of the witnesses in vs 8 spoken of above and I am not haughty or arrogant and I do not want to hide this Truth. It does not make me special.. It just makes me obligated to tell those that G.d loves so much the Truth. I want you to all have this as well. IT is amazing knowledge.




[edit on 3-3-2009 by justamomma]

Throwing out more evidences that Paul's teachings did not align with the teachings of Jesus and the declarations of G.d. These are proofs that are direct and would love for anyone.. just anyone... to show me that I am wrong.

The Word of God sealed by Malachi 3: 6 to not change:

Psa 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Psa 119:152,160
Concerning thy testimonies(statutes), I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments(laws) endureth for ever(are eternal).


Jesus' position:

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Paul's position:

Rom 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


God's Word sealed by Malachi 3: 6:

Isa 45:22-23
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.


Jesus' position:
Mark 12:
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.

Paul's position:
Philippians 2:9-11
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I have clearly shown where that reference is located and it does not say Jesus, but it says God.

God made it clear that He is not a man within His sealed Word (Mal 3:6):

Hosea 11:9
for I am God, and not man..

Jesus confirmed that this was his Truth as well:

John 4: 24:
God is a Spirit...

Paul took a different position:
Cleary by inserting Jesus into the place of God as being the one every knee will bow to... He calls Jesus God. Since God is not a man and Jesus agrees, there is a contradiction. Not to mention:


Titus 2: 13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Titus 3: 4
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared

And if you really cared to know, you could easily go through and see that he admits that it is Christ who is his god and that the Father, Jesus, and Spirit are part of this Christ godhead... yet nowhere in the Sealed Word of God is there mention that Christ is God.

And another contradiction:

God says in Isaiah, numerous times, that He has not hid these things from us and that they are declared by Him.

Paul continually talks about the mystery of God.

Paul's god was not the God that Jesus knew. Paul's god is not the God spoken of in the sealed Word of God (mal 3:6).

Remember Matt 5: 17-19 is enough to show that Jesus took the position of the Sealed Word of God, so anything that Paul says contradicting it is also contradicting the teachings of Jesus.


God stated in Isa 42:8
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

The references are far too numerous, but just a quick read through the first 5 chapters of Romans will show you that Paul does not understand God's name *is* LORD and not Jesus Christ.

Also in reference to the above passage, note "and my glory will I not give to another..."

But Paul says:

Phillippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


How many contradictions are we up to now?

God's Word sealed with Mal 3: 6:

Isa 45:21
...and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Isa 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.


Paul says:

Phillippians 3: 20
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Timothy 1:10
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Titus 1: 4
To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Titus 3: 6
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

God said:

Joel 2:27
And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Paul said:

Galatians 5: 2
Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

no doubt Paul! I would think they are rather happy about that fact given God's promise in Joel 2: 27 and having it sealed with Malachi 3: 6

And here is seen the brilliance of God (just throwing this in again as it is clear and to the point)

Jesus says:

Matthew 7: 15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Paul admits:
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

And in the Sealed Word of God:

Genesis 49: 27
Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.


Can you make the connection?

It is as the God OF Israel said:

Isaiah 45:

19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Originally posted by justamomma It looks to people as though John, the Apostle, is endorsing a maker of idols who is apparently against Paul for speaking against them. *rolls eyes*
So, after Demetrius says things *rolls eyes* about Paul, the town is enraged and then confused.. This is how it works when one can talks about Paul, no? Confusion always ensues.

I don't understand what you're getting at here.

The next person mentioned is Gaius, one of Paul's companions getting taken hold of after *Demetrius* supposedly attacks Paul.[edited for space] And then John (rolls eyes), endorsing him along with Demetrius, the idol maker? Odd, no?

No, from the verses you cite it looks like Gaius was with Paul for a long time. As for Demetrius, presumably it was either a different person named Demetrius, or he became a Christian. Both make sense.

Aristarchus is mentioned in Acts 20: 4; 27:2; Colossians 4:10; Philemon 1:24
. . .
Huuuuuuh???

Again, I don't understand at all what you mean in that part.

I am going to skip to Alexander.. the one put forth by the Jews. Now, it is obvious that Alexander says something that upsets the Diana worshipers. Why don't we look into a bit of what it is the goddess Diana is about, shall we?
Diana is associated with wild animals. Hmmm.. so is the tribe of Benjamin, specifically wolves, interestingly enough the same tribe from which Paul lays claim to. Wolves in sheep clothing anyone? She is the emblem of chastity.. hmm... can we think of anyone else that is worshiped and prayed to (mama) that is a symbol of chastity? She made up a trinity interestingly enough as well.. Egeria ~ water (Spirit perhaps?) and Virbius ~ the woodland god (or son who died on the cross anyone?). Diana was Hellenized (Paul was Hellenistic), which ended in her appearing next to *drum roll* the god, APOLLO.

Aren't you being a little silly? First of all, you haven't shown any evidence that Paul is out to trick anyone. Diana (most translations seem to say Artemis) was never considered a part of anything like the Christian Trinity (you seem to have gotten that from Wikipedia, I would like to see something more specific.) There is no reason to assume water to be associated with the Holy Spirit. Comparing a "woodland god" to Jesus simply because of the cross is just as silly.

Now, here is my assignment. Go look up the following passages and when you are finished, come back and tell me what YOU NOW KNOW as I know about our Paul of the NT. There is no mistake! It is declared as G.d promised in Isaiah.
Acts 18:24; 19:1; I Cor 1:12; 3:4; 3: 5; 3:6; 3:22; 4:6; 16:12; Titus 3:13 (be not mistaken.. Paul is endorsing if not claiming who it is being promoted here).

Wait, are you saying that Paul supports Apollo worship because there was a Christian with a similar name?

Can you explain this account in Acts any better. Look at what Paul says about the Jew (which we already know he has issues with the Jewish.. don't you wonder why?) put forth named Alexander, that upsets the Diana worshipers.

Paul was Jewish.

I Timothy 1:20, 2 Timothy 4:14

Again, I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

Jesus said in Matthew 7: 15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Paul admitted in Phillippians 3: 4-5
Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee.
And G.d declares it in Genesis 49: 27
Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.

Why do you assume the verse refers to Paul and not any other member of that tribe?

Originally posted by AlcoveWhy do you assume the verse refers to Paul and not any other member of that tribe?

Because I know that God does not lie. He has not hidden these things and that means that all the answers are there. It is just a matter of applying oneself to seeing it. He promised to set it all straight and was so adament about making declaring this, that I took note and started seeing that it is all there in front of as plain as day what the Truth is. Either I know He will keep His Word or I do not. Obviously I do and thus, I have presented this in the hopes that there were some who might be sensing truth but hearing the lies (power of pursuasion) and they be looking for the catalyst to be enlightened in the Truth. I did not give you all that I have seen... I have given you connection points for your own mind to discover.

Isaiah 42:
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.



16 And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.

17 They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods.

18 Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see.



Isaiah 43:
19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.


Isaiah 44:
6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.

8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.



Isaiah 45:
2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earthI said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.












[edit on 3-3-2009 by justamomma]

wow, makes sense, i work at a afc home and i take the residents to the church the owners go to. the church is pentecostal and the pastor is constantly quoteing paul, more so then even jesus, whenever ive tried to bring up the fallibility of paul my boss seems to go deaf dumb and blind, i try to show him stuff here on ats but hes always got some kind of answer,
lets see what he thinks about this!

its funny too cause his church is always passively-agressively dumping on the catholic church for being astray and not following the word and yet they are guilty of the same hypocracy. great job!

Originally posted by lunchbox1979
wow, makes sense, i work at a afc home and i take the residents to the church the owners go to. the church is pentecostal and the pastor is constantly quoteing paul, more so then even jesus, whenever ive tried to bring up the fallibility of paul my boss seems to go deaf dumb and blind, i try to show him stuff here on ats but hes always got some kind of answer,
lets see what he thinks about this!

its funny too cause his church is always passively-agressively dumping on the catholic church for being astray and not following the word and yet they are guilty of the same hypocracy. great job!

Thank you. Jesus was Jewish and Christianity was spawned by Paul's Christ; not Jesus. Jesus was the founder of Judaism. Interesting and he confirms this when he says anything that is an actual part of his teaching can be found in the Scriptures (remembering that the NT did not exist at that time.. he knew, as is evident and prophecied in Zechariah that the Word of G.d would be corrupted by the Scribes and handed to the Gentiles, as it says, for mocking and confusion). So.. rule of them, Law and Testimony = Light on the Truth.

reply to post by justamomma



First off, your post was so long I grew weary of reading it and skipped to the pertinent parts. So what you are saying is that because someone was named after the idol maker that he WAS the idol maker?

Second, is it not possible that even the idol maker may have been converted at a later date?

I think you are so blinded by your prejudice against anything mentioned in the Bible that you can't see the obvious.

You do bring up one of the most fascinating stories found in the Bible about the "Image Which Fell Down From Jupiter". What xt was that...Perhaps a UFO?


But did I miss anything about just why you say Paul was a false prophet?

Let me know, and I will through the Holy Spirit "shut up your mouth".

Shame on you, such an intelligent lady, yet blinded by your own disbelief unto the only truth that can save you.


I leave you with this verse written thousands of years ago, yet very appropriate, like it was written especially for you.

Romans 1:22-28 (King James Version)

22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

reply to post by justamomma


You do like to ramble on about nothing don't you? I think you are trying to add substance to your arguement by adding random verses to it to make it longer.

You take bits and pieces of one verse and try and match it to another piece of verse.

None of your posts have made sense, except your first one and that one was borderline.

Maybe you should leave Bible history to the professionals and you keep on being just a momma.

reply to post by justamomma


Wow, thank GOD I don't believe in any of these guys!

Corinthians, Paul, Demetrius, whatever...

[edit on 4-3-2009 by seb2882]

Well, justamomma has no problem with me. I have been talking about Paul in the "False Prophet" light for many years!!

Look to my link below on Paul.


Actually, Paul is now considered by some scholars to have NOT been a natural born Jew. He was likely a gentile and created a connection to the line of Benjamin to create his facade.

Actually, we now do not know who wrote the book of Acts, so we cannot determine for a fact, what can be attributed to Paul. Regardless, just the thought of Paul in my over 40 years as a former Christian, creeeeeeped me out!! As I have said before...a chicken hawk, I have no doubt!

Justamomma, welcome to the world of being considered a false prophet. Stick to your guns, and roll with it, as new light keeps coming at ya.

Originally posted by TH3ON3
First off, your post was so long I grew weary of reading it and skipped to the pertinent parts. So what you are saying is that because someone was named after the idol maker that he WAS the idol maker?

I believe the connection is that people from certain lines continue doing the same general things. That is how I understood it. While not "proof" by itself and alone as you have put it, when you look at the other things Paul does it is a bit interesting. Paul and the Church certainly makes an idol of Jesus, which is against a commandment.

Second, is it not possible that even the idol maker may have been converted at a later date?

Sure is, but we only have the writings attributed to Paul. It should be a given that nobody is trying to "judge" Paul's entire life, but the things attributed to his writings. For all we know these writings could have come at an earlier time when he was still trying to figure things out, who knows. But those things are hardly relevant to the writings and what we do know of Paul.

I think you are so blinded by your prejudice against anything mentioned in the Bible that you can't see the obvious.

I'll be happy to debate you on many topics regarding contradictions between Paul and Jesus. I'm not someone who knows bible history or all the other history so well, so I don't normally get into these types of topics. But if you want to talk about Paul contradicting Jesus and doing things of a Pharisee, I'm open. I didn't go into the bible with prejudice against Paul, but the things he says is not agreeable with Jesus or the father.

But did I miss anything about just why you say Paul was a false prophet?

Sure did, lots of other threads.

Let me know, and I will through the Holy Spirit "shut up your mouth".

I'd like to see that. I'll even go further and say Christianity is the anti-christ religion warned about, and fulfills or seeks to fulfill the prophecies of that. Most of the things Christians wait for to happen have already happened.

Shame on you, such an intelligent lady, yet blinded by your own disbelief unto the only truth that can save you.

Because people don't believe in Paul they are blinded to the truth? Sorry, but I thought Jesus was the one who was the truth, not Paul. Why do I need Paul to understand Jesus? I thought that was the job of the holy spirit and the father. I thought there was only 1 true teacher and master. Are you saying we need to have faith in Paul, and we are fools to question his actions and writings?

I leave you with this verse written thousands of years ago, yet very appropriate, like it was written especially for you.

The quote is really just an example of how Paul judges and points fingers at things that apply to everyone in some form, for people such as yourself to point those fingers at those they want to bring down.

What you quote can just as easily apply to you. Because from what wisdom do you claim to speak from to tell her she is wrong in the first place? See how that works. While true that thinking we are wise when we are not can be harmful is true, it is just a way you can put anyone down.





[edit on 4-3-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by justamomma


I agree 100% that God doesn't lie. That doesn't answer what you quoted though.

And why does it really matter if Paul was into trickery or had lost his way, who listens to Paul anyway..

in fact who is paul !!!!