Beyond the Apocalypse; Surviving in the next Dark Age

If its an ungunned dark-age for us Brits then there's only one course of action...get medieval!

The bigger and badder the weapons, the more fun they are to use against unbelievers

...something like this:







Whilst this may only be a model, the mechanical principle is ingenious

edit to add a linky with lots of vid clips of a large-scale machine in action







[edit on 18-2-2009 by citizen smith]

[edit on 18-2-2009 by citizen smith]

Some other valuable skills would include (depending on location):

Horseback riding
Fishing, especially with a spear/homemade rod and no lure
Fluency in multiple languages, which ones depends on location
Fire starting, without match/lighter

And some secondary skills, not vital, but useful
Making a boat
Lock picking
Car repair/maintenance

Originally posted by citizen smith
This is where I see a difference in opinion regarding post-x conflict between members from the US and other gun-ownership-rights nations, and members (like me) from the UK and EU where private firearm ownership is very heavily restricted

It's funny, the gun/weapon sutiation in the UK, since technically we have the right to bear arms just as our US cousins do. It's just that the British Bill of Rights was written such a long time ago that most people have forgotten that it even exists or that we even have one.

Originally posted by whatukno
Ah yes, you can prepare for SIT X all you like but unless you have a long term strategy beyond survival in the upcoming new dark ages your preparedness is all for naught. What happens when you use up the supplies you stored in your BOB? What happens when you run out of ammo? Can you take wheat and make bread? Can you distill your own Biofuels? Can you make your own penicillin? Do you know how to forge steel? Do you know how to rebuild your own civilization?

These questions must be asked because without the necessary knowledge one can only prepare so much. The aftermath of the end of our civilization isn’t necessarily the end of humanity. Humanity will survive, the question is, who knows enough about survival in order to survive the end of this age and the beginning of the new dark age?

So what’s your answer? Do you know?

Let us break down the questions posed here and see what we can collectively learn for ourselves, and collectively know what to do after TSHTF.

1. What happens when you use up the supplies you stored in your BOB?

Depends on how bad SITX gets. learn how to search homes or other buildings for what you need.
You may be able to get weapons and ammo from the criminal element if you can waste them. This is where a bow and arrows come in handy.
Also you have military bases. police evidence lockers. gun stores.
gun owners that did not make it.
searching homes and building of those people that did not survive should be your first priority. get what you can and hide it near by where you can retrieve it later.
The first place you want to check is your local fire department for tools that you can use to enter building or weapons and ammo storage lockers.
They have all the fancy tools for rescue that are just what you will need.

2. What happens when you run out of ammo?

if you start early in looking for the weapons of those that did not survive it should give you a large supply of ammo and weapons.

4. Can you distill your own Biofuels?

Do you know how to make grain alcohol to use as a fuel? Do you know how to make a generator out of a lawnmower engine? Can you make a small hydroelectric dam? Do you know how to make a light bulb?

Find a diesel car or truck, You can if you have to run it on many more types of fuel the a gasoline car or truck.
diesels can be run on crankcase draining that have been filtered transmission fluids, kerosene, jet fuel. plus diesel and these other "fuels" store longer then gasoline.
Also learn how to get fuel from underground tanks.
Many you can get the fuel by putting water in the tank. remember gasoline and diesel fuel float on water.

5. Can you make your own penicillin?

Remember when you are searching the home and building of the dead to look for medications of those that did not survive and stockpile these for your own use or as trade items.
Even OTC drugs will become good trade items in a short time.

6. Do you know how to forge steel?

Or more easily, do you know how to recycle steel into weapons, tools, armor, and the myriad of other conveniences that this base alloy provides?

I worked in the small mining busness making equipment and forging steel was a needed skill.

7. Do you know how to rebuild your own civilization?

Do you know how to make a basic shelter, an advanced shelter, a house? Do you know how to dig a well? Raise livestock? Grow food?

Learn how to build a fortified shelter in a SITX there will be "bad people" out there.

Originally posted by ANNED

Also learn how to get fuel from underground tanks.
Many you can get the fuel by putting water in the tank. remember gasoline and diesel fuel float on water.

Ooo...now that's a genius idea

Wuky, thanks for starting this thread. I'm kind of surprised to discover that people generally haven't given this much thought. Like those 72 hour BOBs. What crystal ball did someone look into to discover that TEOTWAWKI would only be mildly inconvenient for 72 hours?

There are numerous skills needed for a long term "dark age" situation. I try to learn the basics, have a useful skill (nursing) and am always learning more. It's not possible (or at least highly unlikely) for one person or even one small group of people to know everything that would be necessary to prevent a dark age.

I figure I can forego learning how to forge metal. Fencing is a skill that requires more years of training than I probably have left to live. Pretty good with a gun, though. And yes, I can reload and know how to make gunpowder. I would find alternatives to penicillin as many people are highly allergic to it anyway.

I suggest everyone have a collection of books. If we do have another dark ages for however long it lasts, I hope this time we will learn to value each other as the most precious commodity on the planet and to share knowledge freely, not tuck it away in some back room because it threatens the balance of power among those who want to control others.

Marauding bandits can steal your "stuff" but knowledge and skills are yours forever.

You Rock
Sounds like a former Boy Scout.That is the motto Be prepared.Excellent reference material.I know how to do about half those things.
Patterns of History tell us een without a worldwide disaster Global revolutions will be firing up stronger than ever before.
Good Night and Good Luck.

Originally posted by whitewave

I figure I can forego learning how to forge metal. Fencing is a skill that requires more years of training than I probably have left to live.

Can't believe I missed this first time around. I'd have to check with a 'close' expert but I would imagine even a sabre is not that great a weapon to wield.

Originally posted by whitewave
Wuky, thanks for starting this thread. I'm kind of surprised to discover that people generally haven't given this much thought. Like those 72 hour BOBs. What crystal ball did someone look into to discover that TEOTWAWKI would only be mildly inconvenient for 72 hours?

In a disaster most casualties occur within the first 72 hours thats why we have the BOB initiative to have at hand kit to get you over the initial crisise. Most BOBs are designed for 168 hours not 72, its the US / UK govt and Red cross who say 72 hour survival kits. The tools and clothing aspect of Bobs last far longer its only the food part that expires after a week.

For that purpose the same reason we developed BOBS we also developed Caches and Stockpiles. From the mormons to normal families who take prep seriously most of us have at least 3 months or more supplies at hand.Most serious survivalists who dont spend time criticising others efforts do indeed have long term redevelopment plans in place, but they are of little use if you dont survive the initial disaster.

Please be so kind as to show us mere mortals exactly where any of us have written or implied that TEOTWAWKI will only last 72 hours?
Respects NR

Originally posted by Northern Raider

Originally posted by whitewave

Most BOBs are designed for 168 hours not 72, its the US / UK govt and Red cross who say 72 hour survival kits. The tools and clothing aspect of Bobs last far longer its only the food part that expires after a week.

I wasn't aware that most BOBs are designed for longer than 72 hours. Having personally gone without food or water for 72 hours before, I figure you don't really even need a BOB for that amount of time. Of course, it did take over a week to recover from that harsh 3 days so a 72 hour BOB is not a bad idea.

Caches and Stockpiles

Much better plan, IMHO.

From the mormons to normal families who take prep seriously most of us have at least 3 months or more supplies at hand. Most serious survivalists who dont spend time criticising others efforts do indeed have long term redevelopment plans in place, but they are of little use if you dont survive the initial disaster.

Agreed. More people are waking up and beginning to prepare for hard times. The best way to survive an initial disaster is to avoid it if at all possible. If the Katrina victims had just picked up and moved further North for a few days they could have taken most of the contents of their houses in a U-haul and not had to worry about BOBs at all. Not always possible, of course, depending on the disaster.


Please be so kind as to show us mere mortals exactly where any of us have written or implied that TEOTWAWKI will only last 72 hours?

LOL. It was not my intention to sound condescending. Sorry about that. The point I was attempting to make (and at which I obviously failed) is that in any true disaster more than a BOB will be required. Skill, knowledge, planning, experience-things you can't put in a pack-will be the main staples for survival. Survival is greatly aided by tools. Food (and especially water) are both a comfort, source of strength and a help but can be forfeited for 72 hours (depending on environment, etc.).

I've had a house fire in which I had to run out of the house with nothing but the clothes I was wearing. Survival would have been so much easier if I had any of the things in my house. There are any number of scenarios in which you may not have your BOB handy (at work, on vacation, out for the evening, etc.). There are more dedicated survivalists that carry one wherever they go but I haven't noticed that it is the norm.

Again, glad to see the topic being discussed.

edit to add blacksmithing linky. www.endtimesreport.com...


[edit on 21-2-2009 by whitewave]

I just came across something that I thought was very interesting.

The dome provides shelter for the homeless and is made from plastic, wire and packing peanuts. Pretty much, trash.

Excelent Idea by this young man.

Regarding shelters for the long term, here's a few creative uses of materials that would ordinarily be overlooked so would have less of a scarcity value..

'Cal-Earth', Khuzestan, Iran. Nader Khalili.
Earth-filled sandbag dwellings for refugees of Iraq war II who fled to Iran:





An idea that could be applied to the re-use of plastic carrier-bags perhaps?


'Pallet House', Bronx, New York. I-Beam Design



A quick and effective way to constuct a double-skinned structure, particularly if the void where the forklift tines go are filled with earth/rubble/turf for added insulation and solidity.

Although chances are that unless you're quick off the mark to get a hold of materials to rebuild, items like shipping pallets will be likely to be chopped up and burnt as firewood

And lastly...

Mason's Bend Chapel, Hale County, Alabama. Rural Studio



A gathering space for a rural community using recycled/donated materials.

The particular feature here is that the glazing panels are all vehicle windscreens from a scrapyard, which could be applied to building greenhouses or replacing smashed windowpanes around the house...with the added advantage that its tempered and laminated so will be have greater resilience than regular domestic glazing

The above images were taken from my copy of "Design Like You Give A Damn - Architectural responses to humanitarian crises" ...well worth buying for an inspiring read into post-X shelter and community rebuilding

(and a whacking chunk of the cover price goes directly back to aid groups too)

Some areas in England and Wales still have castles standing. In Scotland there are even more!
It sounds crazy but if TSHTF enough to leave communities still intact but with violent gangs on the prowl.
Those trusty castle walls might see people garrisoning them and lived in safety once more.
You could control an area with enough survivalists manning one of them.
In fact, the only reason castles fell out of use was the cannon and lack of invasion / danger from outsiders.

reply to post by WatchRider


see top of page...



[edit on 27-2-2009 by citizen smith]

reply to post by citizen smith


What your talking about here is a variation on the form of sand bag. I like this idea. It could easily be done with just about any plastic or even nylon container. Brilliant!

People on this page may be able to help me with a nagging question I have.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Might also be good if one had the time and racecourses(good transportation) to carry around some books of knowledge until a permanent settlement could be established . Not an entire library of course, but some relative info to help jump start your society . Say wind mills and water mills and perhaps basic electric generation . Of course books on agriculture too.
And it might be a good idea to learn how to make your own sulfur , saltpeter for gun power . Apparently among sources you can extract these from human urine and animal fecal waste . Saw it on the history channel . Charcoal is the easy part, next step getting the right proportions . I'm sure there's thousands of articles that can be found.

Originally posted by OpusMarkII
..Might also be good if one had the time and racecourses (good transportation) to carry around some books of knowledge until a permanent settlement could be established.

You can take a horse to water but you can't make it think

(couldn't resist...sry)

In all seriousness though, rather than raid the nearest library and cart off valuable books, why not set up a permanent administrative centre using the library itself?

Then its a matter of recruiting teachers and skilled trades and practitioners to the cause...the library acts as a depository of knowledge that the teachers can educate on the theory, whilst the trades take on apprentices for the practical, making everyone useful.

Another invaluable resource that I've seen in practically all libraries are complete sets of The Yellow Pages covering all the regions of the UK (with local editions delivered free to every home in the country)...a veritable 'Domesday Book' of a resource that would give you an immediate overview of what available resources are to be had in your locale and far beyond

...you'd be surprised at just what is on your doorstep if you put yourself in a 'sit-x' frame of mind whilst you flick through a copy

reply to post by citizen smith


I'm not talking about driving around in some kind a post apocalyptic book mobile , I'm thinking like one or tow dozen books . If timing and capacity in your transport permitted

[edit on 11-3-2009 by OpusMarkII]

Originally posted by RobertPaulsim
A good advice is save this material locally in your hd.
Seriously, when SHTF internet will be down for good.

So, get a good terabyte server first

If the internet goes down for good, it will only be a matter of time and your computer will go down for good as well, since computer components don't live for ever, and to rebuild a modern computer, i think would be a bit too much of a challenge

So my advice would be, first print the documents out and then start to carve their content into stone, like previous survivers of lost civs did!


Ko3