Beyond the Apocalypse; Surviving in the next Dark Age

reply to post by DarkSecret

No accusations, just a continuation of the analogy. This is where I start stepping onto ground I really wish was not available on this forum. Personally, I think if it isn't carved out in big metal plates then it's effectively lost. Remember the neo-storage saying, "if you don't have it saved in two places it doesn't exist."

Human makes advances. Human forgets knowledge because human-invented storage facilities to be much better than human. Storage facilities destroyed. Human dies.

Originally posted by Nirgal
No accusations, just a continuation of the analogy. This is where I start stepping onto ground I really wish was not available on this forum. Personally, I think if it isn't carved out in big metal plates then it's effectively lost. Remember the neo-storage saying, "if you don't have it saved in two places it doesn't exist."

Human makes advances. Human forgets knowledge because human-invented storage facilities to be much better than human. Storage facilities destroyed. Human dies.

that's why nobody will "come out on the other side" because if social order breaks down around the world and all states collapse we're in for a very long night. i'd say several generations before anything starts looking "civilized" again.

I'm sure if your brain goes to Alcor, your soul is heading for Mizar.

Seriously, protecting knowledge would become a worrying position. Would you keep it and give freely. Would it become a barter item; a position of power like other notable high priests? Would you profess ignorance and hope to be left in peace?

reply to post by DarkSecret


Whilst the 'traditional' ground-strike use of nuclear weapons may be a worst case scenario, there is one other tactical use that would render any digital-society impotent...the high-altitude airburst to maximise EMP effect

Although my 'prime directive' is to bug-in and fortify, the one other location apart from my home that has been considered is my university

...analogue-based machine-tool facilities, dedicated engineering and architecture libraries, and my faculty building, slap-bang on a canal-transport artery that could be fortified with a few days work and a dozen helping hands

Originally posted by citizen smith
reply to post by DarkSecret

 

...analogue-based machine-tool facilities, dedicated engineering and architecture libraries, and my faculty building, slap-bang on a canal-transport artery that could be fortified with a few days work and a dozen helping hands

Jaysuz! You really are in Yorkshire aren't ye? Unless it's Sth Yorks of course. I'm told that doesn't count.

Just wanted to bring up the importance of having heirloom seeds!
Some do not keep very long and will need replanted just for seed.
There is talk of it being a future currency, they will be that important!
Hybrids are designed to last one year only so you have to keep buying them!(Thanks to the PTB) Sprouts are easy to grow and really good for ya btw.

Dont forget many computer systems are powered with solar and
other forms of energy. Certain things like laptops really dont take much power if you are carefull. Many things and places will still work on some level. Will be good to know a few magyvering skills I'm sure!

Originally posted by Nirgal
I'm sure if your brain goes to Alcor, your soul is heading for Mizar.

Seriously, protecting knowledge would become a worrying position. Would you keep it and give freely. Would it become a barter item; a position of power like other notable high priests? Would you profess ignorance and hope to be left in peace?

If you have control over or access to, a useful technical library, then assuming photocopiers/scanners/printers have been killed by EMP you could carve out a lucrative income as a scribe

...of course, there will be ideological divisions even in engineering, and the bitter war between Metric and Imperial will be just as vicious as between Protestant and Catholic

Originally posted by citizen smith
...of course, there will be ideological divisions even in engineering, and the bitter war between Metric and Imperial will be just as vicious as between Protestant and Catholic

The worst thing is, I can actually see that happening. Imperious luminaries hunched over their desk in the ruins of Fountains Abbey drawing to B.S. 308; arguing 1st and 3rd angle theosophies on tea-break.

The mind boggles...

Originally posted by Nirgal
The worst thing is, I can actually see that happening. Imperious luminaries hunched over their desk in the ruins of Fountains Abbey drawing to B.S. 308; arguing 1st and 3rd angle theosophies on tea-break.

"..and let us now turn to the Imperial Bible, Whitworth, verse 11/32nds..."

and not to mention that many engineers still cling to the 'second coming of his imperial majesty'

Honestly, it depends completely on the circumstances.

If we are invaded by an overt alien force, we're mostly screwed. I'd say less than 10% of the population would survive the initial contact, simply because we'd be too stubborn to surrender. Then, with a little luck the survivors will be enslaved, or forced into hiding. Unless we surrender and acquire their technology/tactics (think half-life 2), we'd remain that way.

If it is a NWO by way of the Illuminati, consider all libraries/sources of information gone. Just look at North Korea. Without free access to information, the North Koreans believe that their leader is responsible for all good things that happen.

If it's a nuclear war (mutually assured destruction), I think we have the best odds at returning to a civilized state at some point. Population and Government/military centers would be targeted, leaving a large, if scattered, population. Libraries and some power grids would be intact. Animals would either multiply at an insane rate, or die off from lack of resources (nuclear winter). At that point, our biggest obstacle would be our fellow survivors.

The key will be information preservation. It is entirely possible that information/skills would become an invaluable commodity. The average person wouldn't survive. However, that could very well be the saving grace. With the population decimated, "The age of plenty" would be scavenged by maybe three-quarters of a billion people. If we can feed 5 Billion, we can manage to feed 500 million without advanced farming technology.

I also believe that people will group together in key areas. The far north/south will be deserted for warmer areas with better resources. Coastal towns will spring up, but don't wait up. Odds are that not a single person alive today will live through the Dark Age. It will be several generations before humanity will recover.

Religion will probably either go down for the count, or return to a new level of importance. And don't expect to see much transportation either. And quite possibly, violence and Empirical rule would return, with wars raging over territory and people. Skilled individuals and possibly even women would become trading items. Slavery will probably return, although based on skill. Either the few will rule the many, unskilled people, or the skilled will be so rare they are more valuable than weapons.

Hrrm, hmm, I guess in situations you are portraying here I might be considered one of the lucky few who are needed. Good for me but bad for me.

My personal plan is to find somewhere out of the way and try to be self sufficient. In a situation where others are involved I can only hope that my knowledge is regarded as something to keep, and that stealing the knowledge of food I can point to right now comes second to the knowledge of food I know how to harvest and grow long term.

I may not know about forging swords and other things, but I know where to find food and medicinal plants, especially where it concerns my native isle.

Great Thread but be careful with the grow your own penicillan as your link says this:

"Grow Your Own Mold: Kid's Instructions

In this experiment, you are going to grow your own mold. Alert! The mold you grow will not be safe to use like penicillin. Remember, it is not safe to use the sense of taste in a science experiment.

One thing I would like to add would be the production of textiles and rope. Of course this is something that would only be needed in a long term survival situation, but it would be a useful skill regardless.

Do you know how to knit? A very simple skill that can be used to make warm clothing, blankets, etc.

Furthermore, do you know how to make yarn/thread? Hand spinning would be a skill to acquire. Don't have sheep to get the fiber from? Dog, cat, and rabbit fur can be used. Dog Yarn

Learn Kumihimo and you can now make decent rope out of the yarn as well.
Kumihimo Instructions
These instructions show a slightly complex 16 strand braid, but it can be done with as little as four strands using the same pattern.

Originally posted by whatukno
Ah yes, you can prepare for SIT X all you like but unless you have a long term strategy beyond survival in the upcoming new dark ages your preparedness is all for naught. What happens when you use up the supplies you stored in your BOB? What happens when you run out of ammo? Can you take wheat and make bread? Can you distill your own Biofuels? Can you make your own penicillin? Do you know how to forge steel? Do you know how to rebuild your own civilization?

These questions must be asked because without the necessary knowledge one can only prepare so much. The aftermath of the end of our civilization isn’t necessarily the end of humanity. Humanity will survive, the question is, who knows enough about survival in order to survive the end of this age and the beginning of the new dark age?

So what’s your answer? Do you know?

Let us break down the questions posed here and see what we can collectively learn for ourselves, and collectively know what to do after TSHTF.

1. What happens when you use up the supplies you stored in your BOB?

Well you’re simply going to have to resupply aren’t you? Well what happens if a company doesn’t exist to produce the necessary supply that you’re looking for, or worse you don’t have the barter medium in order to pay for that supply? Can you make your own?

2. What happens when you run out of ammo?

Well again, you’re going to have to resupply aren’t you? Do you know how to reload cartridges? Do you know how to make Black Powder? Do you know how to repair, replace parts on your firearm? And when worse comes to worse do you know how to wield a sword? Sword? Really? A sword, do you know how to effectively wield a sword to its full effect against a target? Do you know how to create a bow and arrow? A lance, A spear?

3. Can you take wheat and make bread?

Can you identify plants that are edible from those that will kill you? Do you know how to purify water for drinking? Do you know how to field dress an animal? Do you know what parts you can use to make sinew? Can you tan a hide? Can you make soap from an animal?

4. Can you distill your own Biofuels?

Do you know how to make grain alcohol to use as a fuel? Do you know how to make a generator out of a lawnmower engine? Can you make a small hydroelectric dam? Do you know how to make a light bulb?

5. Can you make your own penicillin?

Do you know how to culture basic penicillin? Can you derive medicine from plants? Do you know how to set a broken bone? Do you know and understand advanced first aid?

6. Do you know how to forge steel?

Or more easily, do you know how to recycle steel into weapons, tools, armor, and the myriad of other conveniences that this base alloy provides?

7. Do you know how to rebuild your own civilization?

Do you know how to make a basic shelter, an advanced shelter, a house? Do you know how to dig a well? Raise livestock? Grow food?

What happens when you the knowledgeable are confronted with roving gangs of people so desperate to survive they are willing to steal and kill in order to attain that goal? Do you know how to turn them from foe to friend? Do you know how to organize a simple workforce for the benefit of the whole?

Civilizations decay, and rot away, what always is left are the people that make up that civilization. After a collapse of a civilization, there is always a dark age, this is shown throughout history and it will happen again. The question is, are you prepared? Many of you know enough to survive in the wilderness if situation X occurs. The question is surviving enough?

Of course I don't have all the answers, I don't know everything perhaps though as members we can answer these questions for each other and in doing so help each other when the whole enchilada breaks down.

reply to post by glitch88


Excellent! I actually hadn't thought of making rope. Good point. Long term survival would necessitate the ability to make some sort of rope.

reply to post by Juggalo2313


I think that in this coming dark age the ability to live off the land and recycle your weapons and equipment to make new weapons and equipment is going to be nessesary also the knowledge to make a shelter and reload ammo is going to be essential for survival, I thought on this thread and talked to some friends of mine and we have planned a tribe if you will and where to set up shop once this goes down, as I suggest everyoneelse does, we have many of our supplies already and are still preparing, we have decided that the forest is a good place to be for the protection it offers from invasion, Birds and other small creatures that scare easily and make alot of noise when something is wrong it has a natural survielance system and alarm. alot of cover and its easy to lay low.
this is agood thread and it should stay up for a while, it makes some good points

What exactly are we meaning by 'dark age'?

pre-digital revolution?
pre-industrial revolution?
pre-steam?

reply to post by citizen smith


A dark age is an age between formal governments, an age of lawlessness and anarchy. (at least for this scenario)

Dark Age or Dark Ages is a term in historiography referring to a period of cultural decline or societal collapse

Source: Wiki

reply to post by whatukno


Thx for that definition

If theres a total 'dark age' breakdown of societal law and order then the only way forward would be to revert to feudal life under regional and local warlords.

This is where I see a difference in opinion regarding post-x conflict between members from the US and other gun-ownership-rights nations, and members (like me) from the UK and EU where private firearm ownership is very heavily restricted

reply to post by citizen smith



You knows it Smith; you can discern the Rest Of World from the U.S. fairly easily.

When asked a general survival question nearly all of the U.S. responses mention guns 'n' ammo before moving on to other aspects.

Remember America, I ain't flamin' y'all (there are exceptions that prove the rule). I'm just calling it how I see it.

Two other points:
1) glitch88 - Dog yarn. Brilliant. All I have to do now is remember that stuff from primary school and buy an Afghan Hound.
2) Relieved to learn that by definition a Dark Age doesn't have to last particularly long.