Beyond the Apocalypse; Surviving in the next Dark Age

Ah yes, you can prepare for SIT X all you like but unless you have a long term strategy beyond survival in the upcoming new dark ages your preparedness is all for naught. What happens when you use up the supplies you stored in your BOB? What happens when you run out of ammo? Can you take wheat and make bread? Can you distill your own Biofuels? Can you make your own penicillin? Do you know how to forge steel? Do you know how to rebuild your own civilization?

These questions must be asked because without the necessary knowledge one can only prepare so much. The aftermath of the end of our civilization isn’t necessarily the end of humanity. Humanity will survive, the question is, who knows enough about survival in order to survive the end of this age and the beginning of the new dark age?

So what’s your answer? Do you know?

Let us break down the questions posed here and see what we can collectively learn for ourselves, and collectively know what to do after TSHTF.

1. What happens when you use up the supplies you stored in your BOB?

Well you’re simply going to have to resupply aren’t you? Well what happens if a company doesn’t exist to produce the necessary supply that you’re looking for, or worse you don’t have the barter medium in order to pay for that supply? Can you make your own?

2. What happens when you run out of ammo?

Well again, you’re going to have to resupply aren’t you? Do you know how to reload cartridges? Do you know how to make Black Powder? Do you know how to repair, replace parts on your firearm? And when worse comes to worse do you know how to wield a sword? Sword? Really? A sword, do you know how to effectively wield a sword to its full effect against a target? Do you know how to create a bow and arrow? A lance, A spear?

3. Can you take wheat and make bread?

Can you identify plants that are edible from those that will kill you? Do you know how to purify water for drinking? Do you know how to field dress an animal? Do you know what parts you can use to make sinew? Can you tan a hide? Can you make soap from an animal?

4. Can you distill your own Biofuels?

Do you know how to make grain alcohol to use as a fuel? Do you know how to make a generator out of a lawnmower engine? Can you make a small hydroelectric dam? Do you know how to make a light bulb?

5. Can you make your own penicillin?

Do you know how to culture basic penicillin? Can you derive medicine from plants? Do you know how to set a broken bone? Do you know and understand advanced first aid?

6. Do you know how to forge steel?

Or more easily, do you know how to recycle steel into weapons, tools, armor, and the myriad of other conveniences that this base alloy provides?

7. Do you know how to rebuild your own civilization?

Do you know how to make a basic shelter, an advanced shelter, a house? Do you know how to dig a well? Raise livestock? Grow food?

What happens when you the knowledgeable are confronted with roving gangs of people so desperate to survive they are willing to steal and kill in order to attain that goal? Do you know how to turn them from foe to friend? Do you know how to organize a simple workforce for the benefit of the whole?

Civilizations decay, and rot away, what always is left are the people that make up that civilization. After a collapse of a civilization, there is always a dark age, this is shown throughout history and it will happen again. The question is, are you prepared? Many of you know enough to survive in the wilderness if situation X occurs. The question is surviving enough?

Of course I don't have all the answers, I don't know everything perhaps though as members we can answer these questions for each other and in doing so help each other when the whole enchilada breaks down.

Excellent post, star and flag.

I'll be spending some time going through all of the information you have provided.

Good stuff!!

Thank you.

reply to post by whatukno


Damn good questions, one and all and something I've often thought about. There are a number of things I'm "handy" with and a number of things my SO is handy with but there are simply too many things that he and I don't know. And I'm painfully aware of that :x

Another problem I've given some thought to is this. Alot of information is readily available via the internet, hence alot of people haven't "stored" this info. What happens when the inet is gone? No more access to that info. I've tried to start making it a habit to at least download/copy info onto my harddrive for future printing.

I'll be reviewing all the info you've supplied and will answer the questions in a bit

What does happen when people no longer have access to the Internet? Yes downloading copies of files would be handy, W/O power though it might be a little tricky to read the files.

(but I provided a link for a nice little generator that can be made to alleviate that problem)

Thanks for replying Ill try and provide more information as this thread progresses so that we can all be informed. Much of this I am learning myself. But the other day I was wondering how on earth is modern man going to survive if all heck breaks loose and civilization falls?

Originally posted by whatukno
Ah yes, you can prepare for SIT X all you like but unless you have a long term strategy beyond survival in the upcoming new dark ages your preparedness is all for naught. What happens when you use up the supplies you stored in your BOB? What happens when you run out of ammo? Can you take wheat and make bread? Can you distill your own Biofuels? Can you make your own penicillin? Do you know how to forge steel? Do you know how to rebuild your own civilization?

These questions must be asked because without the necessary knowledge one can only prepare so much. The aftermath of the end of our civilization isn’t necessarily the end of humanity. Humanity will survive, the question is, who knows enough about survival in order to survive the end of this age and the beginning of the new dark age?

So what’s your answer? Do you know?

Let us break down the questions posed here and see what we can collectively learn for ourselves, and collectively know what to do after TSHTF.

1. What happens when you use up the supplies you stored in your BOB?

This is where Catcheing comes in, if that runs out or you haven't bothered, it's time to get cracking and find some supplies before you starve! This is where the whole 'go back to the towns and cities' comes in

2. What happens when you run out of ammo?

Crossbow and bolts, reusable. When they aren't see question 1.

3. Can you take wheat and make bread?

Yes and hard tack as well

Can you identify plants that are edible from those that will kill you? Do you know how to purify water for drinking? Do you know how to field dress an animal? Do you know what parts you can use to make sinew? Can you tan a hide? Can you make soap from an animal?

From books, yes, in practise, not yet.

4. Can you distill your own Biofuels?

Do you know how to make grain alcohol to use as a fuel? Do you know how to make a generator out of a lawnmower engine? Can you make a small hydroelectric dam? Do you know how to make a light bulb?

Nope.

5. Can you make your own penicillin?

Ditto, I'm not Dr Zvaggo mate

6. Do you know how to forge steel?

Or more easily, do you know how to recycle steel into weapons, tools, armor, and the myriad of other conveniences that this base alloy provides?

Nor am a blacksmith!

7. Do you know how to rebuild your own civilization?

Do you know how to make a basic shelter, an advanced shelter, a house? Do you know how to dig a well? Raise livestock? Grow food?

With great difficulty if its TEOTWAWKI.

Right, several flaws in what you're saying. You're expecting that every survivalist ought to be a multi-skilled master-of-all-trades warrior. A master navigator of tradesmanship you might say.
This is a wonderful concept but in practise (and indeed fiction) but it's a hard thing to achieve unless you've got masses of time on your hands and a zealous mindset.
Specialisation is the key. Jack-of-all trades will be an aide BUT masters of trades will be king in a dark age scenario. This is one of the reasons different tradesmen exist. It can take years to become proficient in 4, 5, 6.

Also, if say you've struck it lucky and got a master navigator of trades on your team, what happens if he's incapacitated / killed (for whatever reason)? You've just lost you're main-source of knowledge and linchpin in fixing/making kit for the group.
This why diversity and specialisation comes into play. If one falls at least it will only mean one specialist has been lost and not the four or five equivilant from a 'master navigator'.


Having said all that doom and gloom.

For this thread does raise questions though.
The rudiments and basics of something are usually good for foundation.
But taking that foundation and getting off the ground into the flighty realms of mastery is another groove entirely

Good post whatukno, starred and flagged. These are all valid points that need to be addressed by anyone who wishes to survive in the long term, but the sad reality is probably half the population will die off after the first Winter. Those that do survive will have it a little bit easier, but will still struggle greatly.

Survival is a dirty, time-consuming, laborious endeavor that few are up to. Imagine working from sun up to sun down just to provide yourself and your family with the basics necessary to survive. By the sweat of your brow you'll be able eat, stay warm, and have some manner of roof over your head.

Unfortunately, you'll also have to actively defend what you have against other less industrious individuals that are content to take what they need from productive individuals. Like now, there will always be an abundance of looters and moochers in society.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by LLoyd45]

Some really good points, if the empire does fold like so many before it we are going to have to start again. Of course we know more than we did in the last dark age, electrical power his here to stay although the age of plenty might well be drawing to a close.

A much over looked survival item that any good shelter needs is a good book collection, we can't let the knowledge people have tried so hard to discover go to waste, we must learn from our mistakes but remember also our victories.

Actually i've just started working on a little book about ways of power generation after a major sitX, i want to look at easy ways of using modern tech to make life in a post-collapse world easier. I have a thread with the plan in more detail amd a plee for suggestions here - www.abovetopsecret.com... - would welcome your input.

As for metal work charcoal fired earth furnace powered by handpump bellows in easy to make, a few green sand molds and you can make almost anything. Unless you want to start making plows and swords, only a blacksmith can do thatand they need to know the proper quenching and folding methods.

Heck of a post, you raise some great points here! This is something i've thought about for awhile as well, most of us just won't be able to cut the mustard i fear. I'm confident in my skills as an outdoorsman, but I definitely do not know it all. Luckily we all have access to books and the internet for whatever is relevant to our survival, just going to have to make sure to have the right stuff on hand before the SHTF. If it comes down to bow&arrow and swords, well that is fine by me. Granted game would be a little harder to take, either by bow & arrow or by trap, but it is still very doable. Lots of good topics you've covered!!

bad times are yet to begin

Good thread, food for thought.

As others have said, in the ideal world with plenty of time on your hands, yes, one person could probably do all of these and more ....... BUT, they would rarely be a master of all of these things. That is why people spend years perfecting their skills, experience and knowledge in various trades and professions.

You are far better off mastering one or two skills/professions than being adequate at several. The skills and professions that you are short of should be amongst the other members of your group/family.

Obviously there are certain thngs that do not need expertise at to do, like gardening, cooking, building etc. True, it would be far more efficient to be a master of these skills and it would take out the trial and error of doing these things ..... BUT, one needs to know ones' limitations and admit that they dont really know what they are doing and need an expert.

It is for the reasons stated that forming like-minded survival groups should be encouraged. You need to spread the skills and knowledge throughout your group. Each member becomes an expert at something and also becomes a skilled novice at something else, IE - The Blacksmith teaches the Builder, the Builder teaches the Gardener, the Gardener teaches the Chef/Cook, etc etc. Each 'Expert' takes on one of the group as an Apprentice.

[edit on 14/2/09 by Wotan]

Yep, I realize that sooner or later my batteries will go dead on my laptop, hence the sentance that followed "for future printing".

As Wotan stated, I think it will become vital that there are "groups" or communities of people who can accomplish the tasks necessary for survival.

During the past week, one of the questions I've contemplated has been with regards to this "community" but I think that is better saved for a different post.

That being said, I'm a relatively decent cook from scratch, assuming I have the ingredients. So yes, I can make bread and a multitude of other food stuffs with wheat.

The whole ammo thing is as WatchRider stated, crossbow and bolts. We have both already, in addition to other means of defence.

Medical needs are something that I worry about alot. My SO has a heart condition and is on several medications. I fear that when SitX does occur that things will go poorly for him healthwise.

Gardening/growing food won't be too difficult. And assuming you have a power source, I've learned of a way to grow most foods in an alternative manner, although it wouldn't work with all foods.

I know absolutely nothing about metal working, although with the right books and information I may be able to scratch something out after tons of trial and error.

Same with leatherworking, etc.

But, when it's all said and done, without a community of people I don't think many people will last very long in an "enlightened" manner and we will invariably fall back into the dark ages.

I'll follow WR on this.

Originally posted by whatukno
1. What happens when you use up the supplies you stored in your BOB?

Barter, Blag, Steal or Kill to get fed and resupplied...preferrably before the situation with my own supplies gets critical

2. What happens when you run out of ammo?

Barnett Diablo and plenty of spare elastics that have the power to kill a human/large dog at close range with any roughly aerodynamic pebble, lump of gravel, or steel nut

3. Can you take wheat and make bread?

nope


4. Can you distill your own Biofuels?

vodka and 2-stroke oil? sounds like a good cocktail mix!

5. Can you make your own penicillin?

nope

6. Do you know how to forge steel?

nope but keen to learn

Or more easily, do you know how to recycle steel into weapons, tools, armor, and the myriad of other conveniences that this base alloy provides?

your forgetting high density plastics too!

7. Do you know how to rebuild your own civilization?

hehehe...dont give me grandiose ideas.. all hail King Smith!

[edit on 14-2-2009 by citizen smith]

Very interesting post indeed.

It really depend's on which type of event occurs as to what infrstructure remains in place... and which of us live to occupy / continue to use said infrastructure and machinery and so forth.

I honestly don't have a clue; as none of us do (aside those few gov't employed infiltrators / debunkers / disinformationist's here on ATS and other forums) as to what's unfurling here... are we looking at a celestial ELE? An NWO fuelled nuclear scenario? The arrival of "higher" beings? I have an open mind to all possibilities.

One thing's for certain - without a damn hard fight, none of us will be here to witness it... why? because we speculate, and speculation is treason when one (or more) of our theories are hitting too close to home, too close to the time - well those red/blue list's for FEMA camps in the US and here in the UK Gordon Brown will just dislocate his jaw far enough to swallow us!!

I beleive they have a list of those skilled enough to rebuild what they need and the remainder of those existing ANY event will be completely unprepared ready to work for bread n butter sheep, not likely anyone of any real intellectual merit outside of government / NWO brainwashing.

So I'm skeptical to say the least as to being prepared for any scenario - they won't want speculation in the New Age so I think our day's are significantly numbered. Don't get me wrong, when they come knocking "they" will have never imagined the fight they'll get... but eventually the last remaining souls will be those pre-chosen and the remainder will be akin to the last remaining humans of DOuglas Adams' Hitchhikers Guide...

Sorry for the gloomy post... I think preparation is important - I simply hope it's not in vain.

I have thought of this at length, and determined that I need a binder that is full of how to do stuff. Info that is so important that it is critical to modern life. I have begun compiling useful info into a binder so that if we lose electricity permanantly this info will not be lost. You all should do the same.

If enough people do this we can ensure that the dark age will be short.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by downtown436]

A good advice is save this material locally in your hd.
Seriously, when SHTF internet will be down for good.

So, get a good terabyte server first

Check out this series of books published in the late 70's it answers many of the questions posed in this thread.

This is done by interviewing people who have these skills/knowledge in order to preserve them for future generations.

en.wikipedia.org...

Has anybody read the Foxfire Books?


www.baproducts.com...

This is a series of eleven books, originally produced as a quarterly magazine by a high school teacher and his ninth and tenth grade students in Northeast Georgia, in the Appalachian Mountains. It includes interviews with the older community residents of the area, folklore and material culture. Beside the intriguing folklore, each book contains a wealth of information about lost crafts and skills we may need in the future. A few of the subjects include: building a log cabin, chimney building, soapmaking, cheese making, making chairs, preserving fruit, home remedies, hunting, gardening, midwifing, wagon making, animal care, hide tanning, blacksmithing, horse trading, shoemaking, water systems, a water-powered saw mill, etc. With over six million copies in print, I believe The Foxfire Books will prove both interesting and knowledgeable.

reply to post by iforget


Dang! You beat me to it.

I have the first one somewhere around here. I guess I need to dig it out and re-read it.

Specialisation is the key

Someone floating around ats had a signature that put it nicely.

Specialization is for insects.

Excellent thread and posts!
Here is a good site that will take care of one item on the list!
This food lasts years and years and is reasonably priced!
survivalacres.com...
Good stuff here:
www.backwoodshome.com...
www.motherearthnews.com...