Paul ~ Inventing a new saviour

reply to post by justamomma


So, you deny Jesus came in the flesh?

Originally posted by L.I.B.
reply to post by justamomma

 

So, you deny Jesus came in the flesh?

No doubt you would miss the point.. so I went back to clarify.. in case you missed.. here LIB. Regard what Peter said and follow suit. Quit worshiping the man (and requiring a sacrifice) and start opening your eyes to understanding.

Clarifying the first point. JESUS WAS NOT THE SON OF MAN! The Word that SPOKE through Jesus was the Son of man.

Almost like he had been channeled by G.d. The dove descending on him is a picture of this. Other men had been considered the Son of man.. the only difference is that the Word stayed in Jesus throughout his mission.

The Son of man = The Word of the LORD... It does not equal JESUS! Peter understood this BEFORE the death of the man that was symbollic.. a picture. You all NEEDED that picture.. but instead of seeing the picture, you started worshiping the man.




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And I cannot, JUST AS YOU cannot prove that Jesus lived. That was never the point of focus.. the man. It WAS about the WORD.. NOT THE MAN!

reply to post by justamomma


You were editing while I was responding.

You added:

Clarifying the first point. JESUS WAS NOT THE SON OF MAN! The Word that SPOKE through Jesus was the Son of man.

Almost like he had been channeled by G.d. The dove descending on him is a picture of this. Other men had been considered the Son of man.. the only difference is that the Word stayed in Jesus throughout his mission.

The Son of man = The Word of the LORD... It does not equal JESUS! Peter understood this BEFORE the death of the man that was symbollic.. a picture. You all NEEDED that picture.. but instead of seeing the picture, you started worshiping the man.

Doesn't mean that the same man who ascended, Jesus, does not give the WORD to whom he and the father chooses.

There have been many Sons of Man. Jesus wasn't the first, but Jesus did come to be the savior of the world instead of just for the hebrews as had been the case previously.

Many more believed because of His word; and they were saying to the woman, "It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world." John 4:41-42

reply to post by justamomma

And I cannot, JUST AS YOU cannot prove that Jesus lived. That was never the point of focus.. the man. It WAS about the WORD.. NOT THE MAN!

Remember that Rabbi friend of mine I mentioned? He is located in Israel. They have records of Jesus' existence.

Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

Mat 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

Mat 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

Mat 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Mar 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,

If Jesus was not the LORD CHRIST ...why then did he not rebuke each and everyone of those people who worshipped him as the CHRIST THE SON OF GOD >...........

reply to post by Simplynoone

If Jesus was not the LORD CHRIST ...why then did he not rebuke each and everyone of those people who worshipped him as the CHRIST THE SON OF GOD >...........

Exactly! We all know that Jesus wasn't shy about rebuking people!

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Remember that Rabbi friend of mine I mentioned? He is located in Israel. They have records of Jesus' existence.

Proof? I am willing to take a look and see. But to just say a friend over there has this is really not proof of anything LIB.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

Mat 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

Mat 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

Mat 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Mar 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,

If Jesus was not the LORD CHRIST ...why then did he not rebuke each and everyone of those people who worshipped him as the CHRIST THE SON OF GOD >...........

And I have already showed you proof that not all of Matthew can be taken as fact. I have more, but the one I gave you should be enough for any logical and sane person to realize that something is amiss.

That WORD was the GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST ..


Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(((((((the word is JESUS ...Jesus is the word of God ...Jesus was with him in the beginning (let US make man in OUR image ) no man hath seen God at any time but JESUS DID because he was with God from the beginning))))))

Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
((((((((All things were made BY CHRIST and without CHRIST was not any thing made that was made ...)))))))))))))))))))))))
Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
((((((((((((IN WHO WAS THE LIFE ?? YES JESUS )))))))))))
Jhn 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Jhn 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John.

Jhn 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe.
(((((((((((John says the same as the apostles ..that ALL MEN THROUGH JESUS MIGHT BELIEVE))))))))))))
Jhn 1:8 He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light.

Jhn 1:9 [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
((((((((Who was in the world ??? Yes JESUS WAS ...and then it says the WORLD WAS MADE BY HIM ....and the world knew him not )))))))))))
Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
((((((he came unto the HOUSE OF ISRAEL and THEY RECIEVED HIM NOT ..instead they mocked him ..tormented him beat him and KILLED HIM )))))

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
((((((((them who believe on his NAME WHICH HIS NAME IS JESUS)))))))))

Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Jhn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
*(((((((The WORD was MADE FLESH and DWELT AMONG US (JESUS WAS THE WORD OF GOD IN THE FLESH ))))))))))

Jhn 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
((((Here it is clear that John was the Elijah who was to come to tell the people PREPARE YE THE WAY OF THE LORD the LORD BEING JESUS CHRIST )))))))))))))))))

Jhn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jhn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].
(((((((Jesus was with him from the beginning ....and ONLY HE HAS SEEN GOD))))))))))))
Jhn 1:19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?

Jhn 1:20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
((((John even knows that HE IS NOT THE CHRIST (so see we are not mini christs or John would have said yes ..I also am a christ))))))))))

Jhn 1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
((((John may not have understood this....because even Jesus said ...This man John was the Elijah who was to come ..(In the Spirit of Elijah which John must not have understood this ))))))))))))

Jhn 1:22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?

Jhn 1:23 He said, I [am] the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
((((((((((((Wasnt this supposed to be what Elijah would do ? Well John fulfilled that prophecy )))))))))))))))


JESUS OWN WORDS
Mat 11:7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?

Mat 11:8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft [clothing] are in kings' houses.

Mat 11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

Mat 11:10 For this is [he], of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
(((((((((((((((((JESUS admits that he is the LORD who John was preparing the world that he was coming )))))))))))))))))))))))
Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
((((((((((((JESUS SHOWS them that the OT prophets prophesied of Johns coming and JESUS CHRISTs coming ))))))))))))))))))))))

Mat 11:14 And if ye will receive [it], this is Elias, which was for to come.

Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.


Now lets see how you can butcher that ...JESUS OWN WORDS >......



[edit on 19-1-2009 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by L.I.B.


LIB it is fine that you want to worship a man and miss what was in the man that was of true importance.

You are the one who requires human sacrifice.. NOT G.d. therefore it is your pagan religion and should not be claimed to be based on the Tanakh since He made it clear He would never require human sacrifices.

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Remember that Rabbi friend of mine I mentioned? He is located in Israel. They have records of Jesus' existence.

Proof? I am willing to take a look and see. But to just say a friend over there has this is really not proof of anything LIB.

I know it's not proof. I figured you wouldn't accept it after all the times you've called me a liar.

Are you using this little bit of trivia to get off the track that:

We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. 1 John 4:14

reply to post by Simplynoone


I am not butchering it. I am helping to teach you all about the foundation upon which you claim your pagan belief to be built on. The NT is a butchering of the Tanakh other than the Word that was spoken. It does not comply with Tanakh. It is pagan idol worship that requires human sacrifice and that was not in the characteristic of G.d to work that way.

I am not seeing anything here that does anything to prove my original premise wrong.

Originally posted by L.I.B.
I know it's not proof. I figured you wouldn't accept it after all the times you've called me a liar.

Are you using this little bit of trivia to get off the track that:

We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. 1 John 4:14

I have said you lied and I was telling you the truth.

LIB, please don't come in here with an attitude. Things had calmed down and the discussion was going nicely. She was sharing her views and I was sharing mine.

You should have known that I would not accept your claim because I have stated over and over again.. I am not the one who accepts things on blind faith.

[edit on 19-1-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

I am not butchering it. I am helping to teach you all about the foundation upon which you claim your pagan belief to be built on. The NT is a butchering of the Tanakh other than the Word that was spoken. It does not comply with Tanakh. It is pagan idol worship that requires human sacrifice and that was not in the characteristic of G.d to work that way.

I am not seeing anything here that does anything to prove my original premise wrong.

They are JESUS OWN WORDS >..and JOHN the Baptist OWN WORDS testifying of it as well ...........................

I cannot beleive you think that your opinion trumps THE WORDS OF JESUS CHRIST ......or any of the apostles ..or John the Baptist who was the VERY FIRST ONE TO DECLARE that THE CHRIST ..THE SON OF GOD >THE WORD OF GOD ..WAS COMING >>..........
May I remind you that John was BEHEADED for PREACHING OF THIS SON OF GOD WHO HAD COME >>....
Was he beheaded for telling a LIE ??????

reply to post by justamomma

LIB it is fine that you want to worship a man and miss what was in the man that was of true importance.

You so funny!

I don't worship any man. I do honor those who reveal the nature of God within in them though.

You are the one who requires human sacrifice.. NOT G.d. therefore it is your pagan religion and should not be claimed to be based on the Tanakh since He made it clear He would never require human sacrifices.

What about "Jesus laid his own life down voluntarily" do you not get?

Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. John 15:13

Seems to me that you snub the very friend you had that caused you to go search and find... as he instructed we all do.

Here is what I am seeing ....
You have declared YOURSELF (by calling JEsus,John the Baptist and every single Apostle LIARS) ...to be ABOVE CHRIST ..which CHRIST declared himself to be equal with GOD ..thereby you are declaring yourself above Christ and equal with GOD >>>

Originally posted by Simplynoone
They are JESUS OWN WORDS >..and JOHN the Baptist OWN WORDS testifying of it as well ...........................

I cannot beleive you think that your opinion trumps THE WORDS OF JESUS CHRIST ......or any of the apostles ..or John the Baptist who was the VERY FIRST ONE TO DECLARE that THE CHRIST ..THE SON OF GOD >THE WORD OF GOD ..WAS COMING >>..........
May I remind you that John was BEHEADED for PREACHING OF THIS SON OF GOD WHO HAD COME >>....
Was he beheaded for telling a LIE ??????

Yes, I understand how you are seeing it. I believe that if Jesus was more than a picture and was a man who truly said these things, then yes, he is my brother and also the son of G.d.

But what you are doing is worshiping the man and failing to see beyond the man.. the Son of man aka the Word that dwelt in Him.. The Son of man is testified to in the Scriptures... It is not flesh and blood.. The Word is spoken through man.. but the Word is not man.

Did you read badmedia's example of the cat worshiping the bowl rather than drinking the milk? That is the way in which you see the Son of man alive. The Son of man is speaking through His children and you don't see that because you are too focused on a man/flesh and blood.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Here is what I am seeing ....
You have declared YOURSELF (by calling JEsus,John the Baptist and every single Apostle LIARS) ...to be ABOVE CHRIST ..which CHRIST declared himself to be equal with GOD ..thereby you are declaring yourself above Christ and equal with GOD >>>

Show me where I have declared those things. I don't doubt that is what you *think* you see because you are not used to actually SEEING what is there. So, show me. Where have I declared these things?

reply to post by justamomma

The Son of man is speaking through His children and you don't see that because you are too focused on a man/flesh and blood.

So, what is it?

Do you want us to honor YOU for having the WORD revealed to you?

reply to post by L.I.B.


Alright.. well, everytime you jump into the mix.. it becomes mob mentality and I am not really up for that. Here come the false accusations and there is no point in this foolish behavior. Either get the chip off your shoulder and discuss this or don't expect anymore responses from me.